[2014 Mid-Year Test] Argentina vs Ireland (2nd Test)

[Superalexmarket]

The Pumas have returned to their traditional tackle,courage and defensive play that marked them for decades. Still there's a large deficit in fixed formations, but these players are a good promise for the near future.

 

[austingtir]

So Ireland "win their first test series in Argentina", although that's not what that was, but they were obviously disappointing overall. For a European champ, no 50 blowout against a bunch of South American nobodies + a couple of good names. And on the other hand, Agretnia (or Argentina, whichever looks cooler) have shown class, defiance and tremendous heart. On defense, in the rucks, in the scrum where they were highly deficient and sheer quality on attack si ("on a taxi" ?). Big big A+ to Aryentinius, very surprised, and pleasantly so, personally. In those two testicle serial, or test series both times they've shown lots of intent keeping the ball in hand, stepping, crossing, beating defend dirts. Lovely running game. I literally would exchange some of our better players for that coach, and throw Saint-André into the pits of...uhmm...Ukraine.

Not many sides dominate them in Argentina at home they are tough. Even the AB's have struggled to put big scores on these guys..

 

[big ginger 8]

Not the best tour but I'll take the victories.

I'd just like to point out how I said how great a season Ruddock would have before the season started and was basically laughed at...

 

[munstermuffin]

Not the best tour but I'll take the victories.

I'd just like to point out how I said how great a season Ruddock would have before the season started and was basically laughed at...

Never laughed here. Was hoping he'd come to Munster last year. A superb season

 

[munstermuffin]

He was 10 for the Northampton games. Not saying that I'd have picked Gopperth by any means, but we might as well get it right.

My point is not his lack of playing 10. More he's never felt like he's the 10 in MOC's eyes. And that bit of backing is huge

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Ruddock for Payne plz thx.

Im very worried we're not much closer to solving deciding our centre partnership. There are just so many combinations to try, with each one needing a couple of games at least.
Marshall / Cave I thought was pretty decent, a lot of attacking threat.
Cave / McFadden just didn't work at all
For the short term I wouldn't mind seeing D'Arcy / Cave (or even Bowe at 13).

Whats D'Arcy like at 13? Heard some people suggesting him there.. Madigan inside?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Positives from the tour are Simon Zebo, Rhys Ruddock, Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack and another bunch of players being exposed to test rugby. Ireland have serious depth at loosehead now. Negatives are that the centre problem looks no closer to being resolved, a porous defense, Kieran Marmion's lack of game time and Rodney Ah You's lack of fitness. I don't believe for a second that Jack McGrath is being viewed as an option at 3 but think he was shoehorned in there due to Ah You's performance in the first test.

 

[munstermuffin]

Positives from the tour are Simon Zebo, Rhys Ruddock, Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack and another bunch of players being exposed to test rugby. Ireland have serious depth at loosehead now. Negatives are that the centre problem looks no closer to being resolved, a porous defense, Kieran Marmion's lack of game time and Rodney Ah You's lack of fitness. I don't believe for a second that Jack McGrath is being viewed as an option at 3 but think he was shoehorned in there due to Ah You's performance in the first test.

Agreed regards all that. Centres I think are as bad as they were before tour in that we still haven't found the formula.

 

[Big Ewis]

Not many sides dominate them in Argentina at home they are tough. Even the AB's have struggled to put big scores on these guys..

Gee sir, thank you for this little bit of information ! I should let it at that, but I can't help myself:
first of all this was LARGELY a Pumas B side, they've been stringing weak sides with fluctuating quality from year to year during the summer tests for 3 years now...both France and England put 50 past them. I know it's hard to follow stuff from abroad, but yes, there is Rugby beyond the Pacific Ocean.
Second, actually even as the real Pumas have played, both NZ and Australia have managed 55 points over there so as of the current era Argentina have been very erratic in their results. Funnily enough, against NZ they seem to always get much better results away than at home.

 

[big ginger 8]

Gee sir, thank you for this little bit of information ! I should let it at that, but I can't help myself:
first of all this was LARGELY a Pumas B side, they've been stringing weak sides with fluctuating quality from year to year during the summer tests for 3 years now...both France and England put 50 past them. I know it's hard to follow stuff from abroad, but yes, there is Rugby beyond the Pacific Ocean.
Second, actually even as the real Pumas have played, both NZ and Australia have managed 55 points over there so as of the current era Argentina have been very erratic in their results. Funnily enough, against NZ they seem to always get much better results away than at home.

There were two players in the starting team from the second test vs England who started this match. They're two wildly different teams and have a different coach with Santiago Phelan being the wildly hated coach beforehand. Argentina has had success in recent years at the JWRC and a lot of players involved in the last few played in this series. They also had their best halfbacks which makes a big difference. It wasn't as if it was the best Irish side possible either with Cian Healy, Sean Cronin, Richardt Strauss, Dan Tuohy, Sean O'Brien, Paddy Jackson, Luke Fitzgerald, Keith Earls, Gordon D'arcy, Robbie Henshaw, Martin Moore and Tommy Bowe all people who could have expected to play some role.

Added to that the Argentinians played with a lot of hunger while we did not. Last year the Argies were otherly deflated while the English saw it as their chance to get into the team.

 

[Big Ewis]

There were two players in the starting team from the second test vs England who started this match. They're two wildly different teams and have a different coach with Santiago Phelan being the wildly hated coach beforehand. Argentina has had success in recent years at the JWRC and a lot of players involved in the last few played in this series. They also had their best halfbacks which makes a big difference. It wasn't as if it was the best Irish side possible either with Cian Healy, Sean Cronin, Richardt Strauss, Dan Tuohy, Sean O'Brien, Paddy Jackson, Luke Fitzgerald, Keith Earls, Gordon D'arcy, Robbie Henshaw, Martin Moore and Tommy Bowe all people who could have expected to play some role.

Added to that the Argentinians played with a lot of hunger while we did not. Last year the Argies were otherly deflated while the English saw it as their chance to get into the team.

OK, thanks for justifying something I never asked for (?)...

 

[big ginger 8]

So Ireland "win their first test series in Argentina", although that's not what that was, but they were obviously disappointing overall. For a European champ, no 50 blowout against a bunch of South American nobodies + a couple of good names. And on the other hand, Agretnia (or Argentina, whichever looks cooler) have shown class, defiance and tremendous heart. On defense, in the rucks, in the scrum where they were highly deficient and sheer quality on attack si ("on a taxi" ?). Big big A+ to Aryentinius, very surprised, and pleasantly so, personally. In those two testicle serial, or test series both times they've shown lots of intent keeping the ball in hand, stepping, crossing, beating defend dirts. Lovely running game. I literally would exchange some of our better players for that coach, and throw Saint-André into the pits of...uhmm...Ukraine.

OK, thanks for justifying something I never asked for (?)...

Explaining why we didn't get the 50 point blowout...

Also why it's wrong to compare this Argentina side to the ones England and France beat.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Positives from the tour are Simon Zebo, Rhys Ruddock, Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack and another bunch of players being exposed to test rugby. Ireland have serious depth at loosehead now. Negatives are that the centre problem looks no closer to being resolved, a porous defense, Kieran Marmion's lack of game time and Rodney Ah You's lack of fitness. I don't believe for a second that Jack McGrath is being viewed as an option at 3 but think he was shoehorned in there due to Ah You's performance in the first test.

I think the McGrath to tighthead experiment is very much with the world cup in mind. We'll probably bring 3 props and it's not unfeasible that one (or even two) get injured early on in the pool stages. Getting through the rest of the tournament with no one else in that slot would be tough, so this was as good a chance as any to see if McGrath could be an option.

Ruddock's performances probably mean that Henderson will be playing the vast majority of his rugby in the second row for Ireland. There simply isn't enough space in the backrow.

The squad for the world cup is starting to shape now. Very little time for the likes of Tommy O'Donnell or Richardt Strauss to get back in there.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think the McGrath to tighthead experiment is very much with the world cup in mind. We'll probably bring 3 props and it's not unfeasible that one (or even two) get injured early on in the pool stages. Getting through the rest of the tournament with no one else in that slot would be tough, so this was as good a chance as any to see if McGrath could be an option.

Ruddock's performances probably mean that Henderson will be playing the vast majority of his rugby in the second row for Ireland. There simply isn't enough space in the backrow.

The squad for the world cup is starting to shape now. Very little time for the likes of Tommy O'Donnell or Richardt Strauss to get back in there.

We will bring 4/5 props to RWC for certain. Sure you need 4 in a squad on match day. Injuries happen all over but we will probably see 11/12 backs and 18/19 forwards in squad.
Backs are much more interchangeable and while you say squad is taking shape I hope some spots aren't closed off as there a lot of average guys from 18 - 45 in pecking order which should be left to form at time. Also in RWC (unlike soccer) if a guy gets injured he can be replaced in squad.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I would have imagined 6 props would go to the world cup.

 

[munstermuffin]

I would have imagined 6 props would go to the world cup.

I'm thinking maybe 5 as it's on close but 6 certainly a possibility

 

[munstermuffin]

If I was picking an RWC squad today.
Healy
McGrath
Kilcoyne
Moore
Ross
Archer

Best
Cronin
Strauss

POC
Henderson
Ryan
Toner

POM
Sob
Heaslip
Ruddock
Henry
Last spot depends on form. You'd have J. Murphy, Copeland TOD to name a few and form in big games will matter

Murray
Reddan
Sexton
Madigan (covers 9&12)
Jackson

Zebo
D'Arcy
Earls
Bowe
Trimble
R. Kearney
Payne
Marshall
McFadden
Cave

Out of all that what 6 can you pick unless we trim a forward

 

[Peat]

I'd probably axe a flanker, use Hendy/Ryan at 4/5/6 cover, and take 7 outside backs.

MM, who'd cover 8 in that squad?

 

[Feicarsinn]

O'Brien, O'Mahony and Ruddock have all played a fair amount of 8. Fortunately for Ireland Jamie Heaslip seemingly never gets injured, so perhaps it wouldn't be too big an issue.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd probably axe a flanker, use Hendy/Ryan at 4/5/6 cover, and take 7 outside backs.

MM, who'd cover 8 in that squad?

As said by Feic you've Pom SOB and even Cris Henry at worst case has seen 8 before.
Agreed about your views on Ryan/Henderson as a backup 6 too.
Still it's an awful lot to squeeze in to 1 squad.