[2014 Mid-Year Test] Argentina vs Ireland (2nd Test)

[big ginger 8]

There's been a lot of talk that Henderson and Toner should be our secondrow pairing moving forward, What do people on here feel?

I think PO'C has seen a bit of a drop as the season has worn on and the other two will probably offer more consistent performance as we get closer to the WC (maybe less so with Henderson). However PO'C is still a magnificent leader and a great lineout caller. He's also I think still able to produce the odd one off performance that is still that much better than wht the other two have produced. It's a toughie for me at least.

 

[Jaguares]

just, please, Conrad, take the time to make them tidy and conform to the rest...when I made my first official match thread, I took the time to make it exactly as the others made it, inch for inch...I didn't just take half a muddy shhit and throw that into a new thread...
If you can't find the time to align everything, put the date, location, referee....then just don't do them. Simple as that.
And we don't care about other forums. This is how it is here, and that's all you need to know.

If you go to the Super Rugby section on the forum, you'll see many threads created by me. I'm against putting the time because there are too many time zones here, for example if I put the Argentina's time, we have 16 hours of difference with NZ and it's not fair to our Kiwis friends.

The most important are the squads, I'm waiting for them to be announced. Maybe give the referee and the stadium but not the time for what I said.

I always make threads for Super Rugby and I don't receive criticism, you are very demanding. Relax, bud.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

How on earth have the moderators of this forum pulled off a situation whereby random members will post the match day threads, and not onlt that, but also chide members for swearing and even warn against double posting?
Masterful.

 

[Draggs]

it is a rule from now on i just want an admin or modder to just put the rules for the forum. Just to make the threads more clean and simple and easy to read. plus and also makes us more look more organised in a fine fashion

There is no requirement for pictures to be added. If all you do is create the thread with the correct ***le, it's fine, and we appreciate the thread getting up.
No images are needed, but if you do so desire to add any, please ensure they aren't huge so that it doesn't kill mobile users.
Thanks.

 

[Tony Manx]

Really hard to know who is being funny, who sarcastic and who honest any more!!

 

[Groundhog]

Christ I'm Scotty runs a tight ship. Quite like Lord of the Flies (age appropriate example) with more hearty use of the whip.
They're just pulling your *** Conrad, the threads fine.


Onnnnn topic, neither Henderson or Toner are better than O'Connell at the moment in my opinion and as was said his field presence is unmatched. I would also watch for the recovery of Donncha Ryan in the future. I think Henderson is a tad overrated. He's clearly got talent, freakish physical abilities and a decent skillset but he has a long way to go. inb4 Sarries Bouncefest.
I think that if he does reach potential it's a nice mix of skill and ballast in the second row going forward with Toner.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

How on earth is Henderson overrated?

 

[Groundhog]

Maybe not by you, but to some he's achieved a godlike status since the Sarries game.
Don't get me wrong, I reckon he'll be a Lion one day but obviously he's not the finished article.

 

[Peat]

If people are seriously talking about him overtaking POC tomorrow then yes, he's being a little overrated - and POC's being underrated. I feel a lot of people are getting misled by the slight end of season malaise, stick him in a big European game or test and watch that disappear.

Henderson needs to find a bit more consistency in the big games. It's coming though, he was arguably the best player on the park in Ulster's semi-final defeat, and he had a very good game against Argentina, but there's still a few silly mistakes and stuff.

Henderson probably is a bit overrated in that people conflate Henderson the prospect with Henderson the player - I'm probably guilty of that myself a little. As a prospect, I think he's very difficult to overrate. As a player... he's clearly very good, the argument over Henderson is whether he's part of Ireland's 15 or 23, but that equally clearly shows he's still got that way to go. Sort out the sporadic handling errors. Empty a few more people with big tackles.

I'd like to see Henderson start the next Argentina match ahead of POC though.

 

[lynam1104]

POC is clearly still the better player is pretty much all aspects of the 2nd row however I think he should be given a break for this test. POC had his best season in a long time and for the first time in a while its been uninterrupted by injury so give him a spot on the bench and let Henderson and Toner continue to get experience at this level.

 

[Jaguares]

Pumas team named:

15 Joaquin Tuculet
14 Lucas González Amorosino
13 Jerónimo De la Fuente
12 Gabriel Ascarate
11 Manuel Montero
10 Nicolás Sánchez
9 Martin Landajo
8 Antonio Ahualli de Chazal
7 Tomás De la Vega
6 Rodrigo Baez
5 Tomas Lavanini
4 Manuel Carizza
3 Ramiro Herrera
2 Matías Cortese
1 Lucas Noguera Paz

Reserves:

16 Santiago Iglesias Valdez
17 Bruno Postiglioni
18 Matías Díaz
19 Matías Alemanno
20 Javier Ortega Desio
21 Tomás Cubelli
22 Santiago González Iglesias
23 Matías Orlando

Head coach: Daniel Hourcade.

 

[big ginger 8]

Another analysis from Kinsella, this time of the set peice.

http://www.thescore.ie/ireland-analysis-line-out-maul-argentina-1511981-Jun2014/

 

[Big Ewis]

I want another try from Montero !! Classy athlete.
Loved how Argentina played last week, lots of heart and precision from the home side. Vamos los Pumitas.

 

[big ginger 8]

Ireland (v Argentina): Rob Kearney; Andrew Trimble, Fergus McFadden, Darren Cave, Simon Zebo; Jonny Sexton, Eoin Reddan; Dave Kilcoyne, Rory Best, Mike Ross; Devin Toner, Paul O'Connell (capt.); Rhys Ruddock, Chris Henry, Jamie Heaslip.
Replacements: Rob Herring, James Cronin, Jack McGrath, Iain Henderson, Jordi Murphy, Conor Murray, Ian Madigan, Noel Reid.

Pretty interesting team. McFadden at 13 and Cave at 12 surely would make more sense to be the other way round. I wouldn't be surprised to see them playing left and right. Pretty harsh on Marmion to leave him out completely imo, may as well have given him the bench spot at least. Ah You seems to be suffering for the lack of fitness he showed in his short cameo, it's been a long time since Jack's played tighthead hopefully he'll manage. I'd have preferred a duo of Henderson and Toner for this match but fair enough I suppose. Delighted for Ruddock, seserves his start. Look forward to seeing Cronin and Reid off the bench.

 

[Groundhog]

Redden at scrum half, what's the point. When exactly can we give Marmion a shot if not now? There's nothing to lose and playing Reddan tells us nothing.
All fairly standard apart from that.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Some points on the team
-Agreed BG8 the center combination should be the other way around.. we've seen Cave isn't as good at 12 - if he doesn't have as good a game will it be a real surprise? Not to most Ulster fans, but could really damage his Ireland chances in the future.
-Henderson should be starting with Toner, no real need POC starting there's plenty of leaders in the pack.
-Disappointed not to see Diack on the bench, carried very well (2nd most carries I think?) and was very good in the lineout with a few steals iirc. One butchered chance was a silly mistake but it's his first international cap you can't be too harsh.
-If McGrath was going to be a potential cover for tighthead I would rather see him start.. Mike Ross is now 34 years old (few years older than I thought tbh), don't want to see any injuries from him!
-& I agree Marmion should be here somewhere.

As long as the midfield works out then we should get another decent win.

 

[munstermuffin]

On team Schmidt is planning for RWC2015 no further.
He hasn't got Marmion in his plans so that's why he won't be involved.
Regards POC playing its easy to understand Schmidt thinking. They're the only 3 locks and he's treating game with respect so out of 3 who will make the biggest impact.
Regards midfield it's a good call but I have to say I'm beginning to write off Marshall.
Diack unlucky but it was tight call.
Can anyone update on is McGrath even good a TH?

 

[Peat]

Would be interesting to hear Schmidt's views on Marmion. He very clearly does not think he is ready based on the history so far.

 

[Jaguares]

Ireland by 20

 

[big ginger 8]

Marmion in for Murray on the bench.

EDIT: Kearney's locks are gone!

EDIT EDIT: Some terrible discipline from the Argies.