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[2014 EOYT] Wales vs Australia

You can't blame Gatland for the mistakes which caused the tries, and also the poor performance from Joubert.




Just compare it to the Aussie rolling away, there is little difference and just as much ball slowed down as a result but far less penalties for it.

Hooper clearly chose to impede Hibbard from rolling away and to play for the penalty instead of playing the ball, he didn't just 'not move'. No matter how much you argue that 'we didn't adapt' or it is his responability - that is cheating. The replay clearly demonstrated it.

It's totally relevant to responsibility. At that ruck Hibbard has the responsibility to move. Hooper has no responsibility to let him move and did what he could to prevent that, its shady admittedly but in no way was what Hooper did was against the laws or "cheating". Neither had the ref called "use it" so again Hooper didnt have to play the ball at that point.
 
An RWC semi where we lost to SA, lost to France, and lost to Australia? Beating Samoa, Fiji, Namibia, and Ireland? Lost to Aus again weeks later.
Grand Slam in 2008 was good, 2012 was fortuitous. Lost three straight in Aus following that, and four more at home, followed by a hammering by Ireland, but it's ok because we beat England at the end. Managed a win against Samoa, but then got thumped by Ireland. There has been no change or development. Our sole attack since 2012 has been hope Cuthbert or North scores.

In what world were you living before 2008? Do you think Wales were always competing with the best and winning the Six nations? Saying that there was no development from 2008-2012 is utterly ridiculous.

Clearly, we need to change things up. I am not happy with where we are, but we should be looking for improve and change our philosophy on the pretext that Gatland has clearly brought us out of the dark ages.

We need to understand that in order to beat the SH teams, we need to play like them. It's simple. The SH teams aren't magically the best just because they were born south of the Equator, it is because they play much better attacking running rugby and know how to offload. I think wales showed today that they are on their way to following that trend. In fact, i think this is evident throughout the NH. We just need to commit to it, and finally rid ourselves of the 'Gatland ball' tag which i agree was found out after 2012.
 
I'm thinking this will be a close game, but I'm picking the Wallabies to win (again), by around 5 points.

Nice one Darwin!! Future AB selector, one of the top Kiwi posters on this board and now Oracle of rugby scores:).
 
On a side note. How you you guys think the pitch performed. It held up well even if it didnt look the best, Murrayfeild's Desso looks way nicer.
 
Just watching the game now about 30 mins in (I know the score though) - very surprised with how well the Wallabies are doing. Wales are top opposition and I've often felt our run against them is a rugby equivalent to a statistical anomaly. Foley having a brilliant game at 10 and glad to see Folau break his tryless streak. Kurindrani also had another blinder and continues to show he's the best centre since Mortlock for us, and I was pretty happy with our scrum given we had given away 50kgs and still had a few of our first choice guys missing.

Edit: How did they award Wyn Jones try? Never looked like he got there and the Joubert was behind the play?

Edit 2: Praised the scrum too soon - really fell apart in the second half. Really need Pocock, Moore, Palu back for the buck they add.

Thank god we weren't playing the All Blacks again... why the f##k foley would kick the ball away with 40 seconds on the clock is beyond me.
 
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Nice one Darwin!! Future AB selector, one of the top Kiwi posters on this board and now Oracle of rugby scores:).

I'm often known around these parts as Nostradarwin ;) To be honest it wasn't a particularly bold prediction - has there been a single match between the two sides in recent years (and there have been a lot of matches) where Australia haven't won by around 5 points?
 
wow, I'm watching this one atm and that Aussie commentator, the main guy, not Kafer, on Fox...it's good a pundit brings excitement to the viewing atmosphere and all.
But this guy literally was - y-e-l-l-i-n-g into his microphone on that first Aus Folau try at the 14th. It got me thinking...just how much do you think you could get away with as a pundit in terms of sheer auditory volume ??...before, like, you get a word from your staff or something or they just cut you off cause it just can't go on like that ? :lol:

"Ashley Coopah to Henry Spei...YAAHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!! cc54a156a6d6e67b98c0eddea09e4f90_vice_630x420.jpg..."
(and then you go back to normal so ppl don't get too alerted, people's instant memory is extremely short) "ahem...he's, ovaaahh......what a troyyyy by the wingahh..so the Wallabies with an intricate loop pass system thehh, worked to perfection let's have a look again.."
 
Well this one was bloody frustrating as always. Australians, as much as I love you, I can't stand your damn sports teams!

Every single one of the Aussie tries were too damn soft and avoidable if we'd been switched on... Both of Rhys Webb's daft interceptions should've been Welsh tries, especially the second one. Both times he fixed an Aussie defender to him, and had another going for the intercept. A simple short ball to North the first time, and Cuthbert the second, probably would've seen Wales chalking up 2 more tries...

I didn't think Joubert was too bad, even if I simply don't like the way he refs. He's far too lenient on attacking players diving in off their feet, lot of that went unnoticed today/ However the last 10- 15 mins saw a series of baffling penalties against Wales imo, every single one was very harsh.
Gotta agree with Jbobo on the Hibbard one. I understand that the Aussies don't need to let him move away, but there's a damn huge difference between letting him move and pinning him in place so he can't! I've seen defenders penalized for similar, so why should attackers get away with it?
 
Wales kicked a few aimless ones or foolish chips in the 1st half, not smt you want to do against the Wallabies. They counter off that and they've got fantastic athletes to do it. Wales quickly showed more patience; they looked good when they put in the phases and ate up ground gradually, but then they'd try to rush things, play faster than their actual pace (e.g. that good attacking position and awful pass on the left wing on the Folau intercept try, or that other big intercept in the 1st H). You get exposed against those SH teams skipping steps, it's all about patience and playing at your own tempo but you can't go slow either. You can't just run them over up front, and they're more than competitive at the breakdown, not to mention how fast they act off a TO.
In the NH we don't have the skills and know-how to commit defenders, offload, create space and run great support lines, brew good numbers out wide… consistently the way they do down there, and playing strong defence is good but eventually they'll break through a few times over 80min of relentless attempts and focused variation on crossing the advantage line. They've got the schemes to do that every Test. Wales couldn't count on their opponents (like in the 6N) committing a shiit ton of knockons and handling mistakes and that slow tempo/secure/ruck game, Aus are too fundamentally sound, so surely the solution was elsewhere.
The two (Welsh) first tries came off the Aussies trying to play too aggressive defense and missing the first tackle creating overlaps and wide open spaces easy to operate in, because Wales showed patience. So MASS ball wasn't so much effective and it's when Wales managed breaks with a tad more intricacy that it started working for them, when Australia was in those backpedaling, unstable positions.

The scrum pen try btw was…mmmm…Wales had the upper hand that entire sequence but the one that gave them the try was…mmm..
Aus also had a bunch of possession, as depicted by the stats (56% in 2nd half, 54% for the game, would've thought more) so great job holding on to the ball, Wales really didn't have a whole lot to work with. In a large sense, the Wallabies kind of forced Wales to play their own style that game.

Aussies won the game because of very good execution towards the end, they obviously changed tactics and went for a game of proximity and accumulated phases rather than stretching the defense wide, collected the 3's from there when it was crunch time. Well done. It really wasn't far at all for Wales, but still, yet another November defeat. It's just quite INSANE it had to come to this and end up that way…someone out there hates Wales with all his heart, some god or powerful thing.
 
Wales kicked a few aimless ones or foolish chips in the 1st half, not smt you want to do against the Wallabies. They counter off that and they've got fantastic athletes to do it. Wales quickly showed more patience; they looked good when they put in the phases and ate up ground gradually, but then they'd try to rush things, play faster than their actual pace (e.g. that good attacking position and awful pass on the left wing on the Folau intercept try, or that other big intercept in the 1st H). You get exposed against those SH teams skipping steps, it's all about patience and playing at your own tempo but you can't go slow either. You can't just run them over up front, and they're more than competitive at the breakdown, not to mention how fast they act off a TO.
In the NH we don't have the skills and know-how to commit defenders, offload, create space and run great support lines, brew good numbers out wide… consistently the way they do down there, and playing strong defence is good but eventually they'll break through a few times over 80min of relentless attempts and focused variation on crossing the advantage line. They've got the schemes to do that every Test. Wales couldn't count on their opponents (like in the 6N) committing a shiit ton of knockons and handling mistakes and that slow tempo/secure/ruck game, Aus are too fundamentally sound, so surely the solution was elsewhere.
The two (Welsh) first tries came off the Aussies trying to play too aggressive defense and missing the first tackle creating overlaps and wide open spaces easy to operate in, because Wales showed patience. So MASS ball wasn't so much effective and it's when Wales managed breaks with a tad more intricacy that it started working for them, when Australia was in those backpedaling, unstable positions.

The scrum pen try btw was…mmmm…Wales had the upper hand that entire sequence but the one that gave them the try was…mmm..
Aus also had a bunch of possession, as depicted by the stats (56% in 2nd half, 54% for the game, would've thought more) so great job holding on to the ball, Wales really didn't have a whole lot to work with. In a large sense, the Wallabies kind of forced Wales to play their own style that game.

Aussies won the game because of very good execution towards the end, they obviously changed tactics and went for a game of proximity and accumulated phases rather than stretching the defense wide, collected the 3's from there when it was crunch time. Well done. It really wasn't far at all for Wales, but still, yet another November defeat. It's just quite INSANE it had to come to this and end up that way…someone out there hates Wales with all his heart, some god or powerful thing.

A couple of good points there and some i definitely agree with, but a lot of it is off for me. You're still sticking to stereotypes and your ideas of how teams play or 'should' play, instead of actually analyzing what happened.
 
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An RWC semi where we lost to SA, lost to France, and lost to Australia? Beating Samoa, Fiji, Namibia, and Ireland? Lost to Aus again weeks later.
Grand Slam in 2008 was good, 2012 was fortuitous. Lost three straight in Aus following that, and four more at home, followed by a hammering by Ireland, but it's ok because we beat England at the end. Managed a win against Samoa, but then got thumped by Ireland. There has been no change or development. Our sole attack since 2012 has been hope Cuthbert or North scores.

I have to say I agree with this . I'm an Englishman but I live in mid wales . So have lots of Welsh friends and a lot of them say this to me Imo the grand slam wales won as soon as Gatland took over was the best they have won and I'd find it hard to say today's team is significantly better than that team . Wether it's a mental thing or not they still can't pull off the wins outside of the 6N for some reason
 
I have to say I agree with this . I'm an Englishman but I live in mid wales . So have lots of Welsh friends and a lot of them say this to me Imo the grand slam wales won as soon as Gatland took over was the best they have won and I'd find it hard to say today's team is significantly better than that team . Wether it's a mental thing or not they still can't pull off the wins outside of the 6N for some reason

I like the Welsh Rugby team, and think they do play some great footy, but it is really bizarre how consistently they come up short... They're like the England Rugby League team; always "gallant in defeat".
 
Great game to watch, but with plenty of mistakes ... taking into account the England game as well, the World Cup "group of death" actually seems to consist of three teams with major weaknesses! Wales I thought were structurally pretty good in defense aside from that one inside ball early in the second half (North had a couple of minor moments but you can put that down to experience), where they fell down was missing individual tackles and of course the game management. Australia seemed to have far more issues with doglegs and holes in the defensive line.

I said before I was excited about the Webb / Biggar, combo and I thought overall it went well. Biggar ran the passing game well, got players running off him and making yards, Webb unfortunately will be remembered mainly for the two interceptions today, but in between those passed well, was alert and had a good understanding with Biggar. I would question their game management as a pair though, there were times when someone needed to take the initiative and kick when phase after phase of attack was clearly going nowhere...not that Priestland managed the game any betterm her really is utter pants in my esteemed opinion, and I don't think much of Phillips either. For me Webb and Biggar are the half-back pair for the future for Wales, let them settle in together and improve.

To weigh in on the Hooper holding the tackler in issue, I did wonder if I saw it whether Hooper actually put his knee on the floor? In which case he would have been (technically) at fault for going to ground, no?
 
@Every Time Ref with Hooper being technically off his feet, I doubt Joubert would've picked up on it. He generally ignored players diving off their feet, so I can't see him pinging something as subtle as that.
Main one that sticks in my mind is that Ashley-Cooper break at the start of the second half, supporting Aussie player flies in with no attempt to even try and stay on his feet while clearing out. (I'm sure there was plenty of Welsh examples too, but I had many a pint during the match, and that's the one that springs to mind :p)
 
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I know the feeling, some of the "analysis" when watching in the pub can feel slightly embarrassing in the cold light off day!

You're right about Hooper, I never really thought it was a penalty outside the realm of technicality, just an observation. What you mention about attackers constantly going off their feet is dead right, that is one of my bugbears actually, attacking players superman-diving straight over the ruck and getting away with it. Yes, give the attacking side a little more leniency to help attacking rugby flow, but make them at least START on their feet, for God's sake.
 
Was just reading some of the coverage of the after match stuff, and man Gatland is a grade A tosser... After 10 losses in a row to Australia - and this time to a heavily injury depleted Wallabies coming off a very damaging crisis - he quips that his almost full-strength team has more improvement in them than the Wallbies?

Corrigan over there summed it up pretty well in saying

While the Wallabies were without at least six front-liners and, were suffering so bad at hooker, they were down to their third-, fourth- and ninth-choice hookers, Wales were arguably only one centre light of their best team. And yet, Gatland is adamant that it will be boys in red making the huge strides? It sounded suspiciously like straw-clutching language...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...ep-after-Waless-latest-loss-to-Australia.html

I mean, I like the Welsh team, but Gatland really rubs me the wrong way and after close to 8 years in the job he'd want to have a better record against the sanzar countries before talking about who has the most improvement in them.
 
Another loss, but it's so typical that Gatland can just bluff another "getting closer/building for 2015/look at the positives" line and buy himself another season. Haven't heard that before...

"We've scored four tries to three and I thought we went out there and played some really positive rugby,"

"I'm not happy with the result but I'm happy with the performance and there's something to build on."

"You're not going to be consistently close for nine or 10 matches and it not go our way one time. It's just a matter of when, not if."

"...so a huge number of positives for us to build on that performance"

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