[2014 EOYT] Ireland vs South Africa

[munstermuffin]

Ye are all missing point lads. I'm not saying others aren't starters BUT just the 4 are the only guaranteed starters. The others may not have started in a fully fit selection regardless. As I said it's more our depth hit.
@BG8 I know it's also a side starting with Ross especially who I've heard is in desperate shape in training but it's more saying who's certain starters.

Also just to say team I stated is only what trained this morning. I'm still hopeful Zebo (who's been the best performing wing the past month) starts.

 

[big ginger 8]

http://www.thescore.ie/south-africa-analysis-attack-1763298-Nov2014/

Good analysis of the South African attack.

 

[goodNumber10]

it's excellent, i posted it in the analysis thread.

 

[Big Ewis]

Don't worry Big E. You're not mad, just eccentric! :buba:

Nope, mad. You know the saying: "poor people are crazy. Rich people are eccentric." Maybe if something goes really, reaaaaa-hea-heaaally out of plan, I can be called "eccentric".

Boks to retain All-Blacks Slayers
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9550670,00.html

South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cornal Hendricks, 13 Jan Serfontein, 12 Jean de Villiers (c), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois Hougaard, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Tebo Mohoje, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira
Replacements: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Bakkies Botha, 20 Schalk Burger, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Pat Lambie, 23 JP Pietersen.


That Mohoje's looked really good for SA. What real depth in the third row.

http://www.thescore.ie/south-africa-analysis-attack-1763298-Nov2014/

Good analysis of the South African attack.

can you make a quick video summary of that and post it on YouTube ? I really want to know but am really tired..please man, c'mon.

 

[big ginger 8]

it's excellent, i posted it in the analysis thread.

Ah sorry missed that.

 

[Peat]

If Best doesn't make it, I think you can categorically say that Ireland have a better pack missing than will actually start - Healy, Best, Moore, Tuohy, Ryan, Henderson, Murphy, O'Brien

 

[big ginger 8]

If Best doesn't make it,

He's been officially ruled out. With "hopes" of him being fit for Australia.

 

[Peat]

He's been officially ruled out. With "hopes" of him being fit for Australia.

Ah so he has been. Mind slipping. I'm going to be selfish and be happy that'll he be nicely rested up for the league. But yeah, I'd definitely take the injured pack over the fit one. Tbh, the injured 11-14 is probably as good as the fit one too...

 

[munstermuffin]

Ah so he has been. Mind slipping. I'm going to be selfish and be happy that'll he be nicely rested up for the league. But yeah, I'd definitely take the injured pack over the fit one. Tbh, the injured 11-14 is probably as good as the fit one too...

??? You Mad

Starters vs Injured

McGrath vs Healy - Obvious
Cronin vs Best - Tight as he's throwing awfully
Ross vs Moore - Gets it as he would've started anyway
POC vs Tuohy
Toner vs Ryan - Deserves it as he's played well and Ryan is non existent
POM vs Henderson - Henderson is good but POM is the better 6
Henry vs SOB
Heaslip vs Jordi Murphy I presume :O

Hardly a better pack missing by long long way.

In 11-14 I can't agree either as when you narrow it down who's missing that is MUCH better than their opponents fit?

 

[sharkfan]

A bit off topic and not related to the game on Saturday, but I feel I have to announce the passing of former Bok player Tinus Linee who died of Motor Neuron disease, the same disease Joost vd Westhuizen has.

 

[munstermuffin]

A bit off topic and not related to the game on Saturday, but I feel I have to announce the passing of former Bok player Tinus Linee who died of Motor Neuron disease, the same disease Joost vd Westhuizen has.

Wasn't this already said on a thread in this site.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I see Ireland do have some injury troubles then; more the usual. But it seems there is legitimate depth there as well! Looking good going into 2015. SA are also missing a ton of men, many of whom would be 1st choice (Malherbe, PSdT, Louw, Alberts, FdP) as well as taking some shots in key areas . At TH; Malherbe and Marcel van der Merwe- the two guys who have been intrusted of taking over from a below par Jannie du Plessis, at lock we are without PSdT and both Flip and Franco van der Merwe so Matfield had to step in, scrum half both FdP and Pienaar though in SA we are happy enough in that respect- not the injury but that pienaar won't feature here. Loose forwards Alberts, Louw and Botha though we've been coping well and TBH Coetzee has been in better form than Louw in any case though most aren't convinced by Mohoje ATM; something of a fast-track without much evidence to back the decision to do so.

Nope, mad. You know the saying: "poor people are crazy. Rich people are eccentric." Maybe if something goes really, reaaaaa-hea-heaaally out of plan, I can be called "eccentric".

Boks to retain All-Blacks Slayers
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9550670,00.html

South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cornal Hendricks, 13 Jan Serfontein, 12 Jean de Villiers (c), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Francois Hougaard, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Tebo Mohoje, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira
Replacements: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Bakkies Botha, 20 Schalk Burger, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Pat Lambie, 23 JP Pietersen.


That Mohoje's looked really good for SA. What real depth in the third row.



can you make a quick video summary of that and post it on YouTube ? I really want to know but am really tired..please man, c'mon.

Most here feel Mohoje is a tad lucky. He has a lot of potential but he just doesn't have the workrate of say Coetzee, Whiteley, Carr, Vermeulen, Kriel, Burger and a host of others or the sheer impact of Alberts. Alberts might just make 8 tackles a game but those wouldn't be just tackles, they tend to either stop opposition momentum dead or help force a turn over.

 

[Peat]

??? You Mad

I'd ask the same question but know the answer.

The pack that's going to start has a glaring weakness when it comes to carrying and destructive tackling. The pack of the injured is hogging all of Ireland's power athletes in the pack, so it has no issues there, and no issues anywhere else. So that's a better unit and a better pack.

The injured 11-14 would have a real 12 and a better choice of wingers. 13's a wash. so, yup, you should be able to create an equal unit at least out of those guys.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'd ask the same question but know the answer.

The pack that's going to start has a glaring weakness when it comes to carrying and destructive tackling. The pack of the injured is hogging all of Ireland's power athletes in the pack, so it has no issues there, and no issues anywhere else. So that's a better unit and a better pack.

The injured 11-14 would have a real 12 and a better choice of wingers. 13's a wash. so, yup, you should be able to create an equal unit at least out of those guys.

I'd listen to this, he is the best NH poster at the end of the day.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd ask the same question but know the answer.

The pack that's going to start has a glaring weakness when it comes to carrying and destructive tackling. The pack of the injured is hogging all of Ireland's power athletes in the pack, so it has no issues there, and no issues anywhere else. So that's a better unit and a better pack.

The injured 11-14 would have a real 12 and a better choice of wingers. 13's a wash. so, yup, you should be able to create an equal unit at least out of those guys.

But equally the pack starting is better for lineout and tackling. As I said in my player vs player analysis which would you change?
Again in backs D'Arcy is a loss at 12. Marshall I'm still doubtful over but which back 3 player out was on form except for Trimble none of rest would've started regardless.
I'm not saying they can't be equal as I think there's not a whole lot between the top 6/7 wings in country.
But in pack as I said most of guys you named wouldn't start even if fit and some (Murphy) would be lucky to be at camp.

 

[Peat]

But equally the pack starting is better for lineout and tackling. As I said in my player vs player analysis which would you change?
Again in backs D'Arcy is a loss at 12. Marshall I'm still doubtful over but which back 3 player out was on form except for Trimble none of rest would've started regardless.
I'm not saying they can't be equal as I think there's not a whole lot between the top 6/7 wings in country.
But in pack as I said most of guys you named wouldn't start even if fit and some (Murphy) would be lucky to be at camp.

Even if I were to accept your first sentence, which I don't (better at tackling? eh?), it doesn't change my argument one whit. The injured pack is not weak in those areas. It's not weak in any area. And that is why it trumps the starting pack. The starting pack does contain more starters, there's almost definitely things it does better, but it's got a glaring weakness and the pack that doesn't is better.

As for Jordi Murphy being lucky to be at camp, that's risible.

And if you're not saying they can't be equal, why the hell are you arguing? Actually, why am I bothering to argue...

 

[profitius]

So the team is looking like

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Payne
12 Henshaw
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Murray

1 McGrath
2 Cronin
3 Ross
4 Toner
5 O'Connell
6 O'Mahony
7 Henry
8 Heaslip

16 Strauss
17 Kilcoyne
18 Archer or Ah You
19 Foley or McCarthy
20 O'Donnell or Dominic Ryan
21 Jones
22 Madigan
23 Reddan


It looks like 18, 19 and 20 are the only question marks.

 

[Big Ewis]

Most here feel Mohoje is a tad lucky. He has a lot of potential but he just doesn't have the workrate of say Coetzee, Whiteley, Carr, Vermeulen, Kriel, Burger and a host of others or the sheer impact of Alberts. Alberts might just make 8 tackles a game but those wouldn't be just tackles, they tend to either stop opposition momentum dead or help force a turn over.

mmmm ah okay I see. *sends message to agent on phone under the table to go and poach, staring at his interlocutor in the eye continuously with no expression*

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

But equally the pack starting is better for lineout and tackling. As I said in my player vs player analysis which would you change?
Again in backs D'Arcy is a loss at 12. Marshall I'm still doubtful over but which back 3 player out was on form except for Trimble none of rest would've started regardless.
I'm not saying they can't be equal as I think there's not a whole lot between the top 6/7 wings in country.
But in pack as I said most of guys you named wouldn't start even if fit and some (Murphy) would be lucky to be at camp.

Just because the starting pack on a 1 to 1 basis might just edge the injured pack, doesn't mean it's better overall..

 

[sharkfan]

Wasn't this already said on a thread in this site.

Oops, my apologies. Yes it was mentioned under the Joost vd Westhuizen thread in the general rugby category.