2014 Canadian Rugby Championship and General Canadian Rugby Chat.

[nomadenhaft]

If you mean "upperclass" as in elitist, then definitely not, at least not in the way it's perceived by the general public.

If anything it's probably the other way around. We're used to the thought of expensive hockey equipment, so any sport with so little protective gear is considered a cheap option, especially for kids. That's why soccer participation is so high in Canada.

As for the players, I think at the moment there are fewer than 50 "carded" Canadian rugby players; these are athletes who are eligible to directly receive varying levels of government funding to play rugby. And I could be wrong, but I think all of them are from the national 7s program. Since there's no fully professional domestic league in Canada, I'm pretty sure every other player has to pay their own way through a combination of fundraising plus having a career outside of rugby.

If you're interested, there was a really interesting article written in the last few days about the general talent level of high-end Canadian rugby.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/1...t-column-jeff-hull-on-canadas-mens-rugby-gap/

 

[LittleGuy]

If you mean "upperclass" as in elitist, then definitely not, at least not in the way it's perceived by the general public.

If anything it's probably the other way around. We're used to the thought of expensive hockey equipment, so any sport with so little protective gear is considered a cheap option, especially for kids. That's why soccer participation is so high in Canada.

As for the players, I think at the moment there are fewer than 50 "carded" Canadian rugby players; these are athletes who are eligible to directly receive varying levels of government funding to play rugby. And I could be wrong, but I think all of them are from the national 7s program. Since there's no fully professional domestic league in Canada, I'm pretty sure every other player has to pay their own way through a combination of fundraising plus having a career outside of rugby.

If you're interested, there was a really interesting article written in the last few days about the general talent level of high-end Canadian rugby.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/1...t-column-jeff-hull-on-canadas-mens-rugby-gap/

You are right on this, that was part of the deal with the "Own the Podium" program where the government gives more money to Olympic sports than non-Olympic ones(or teams with no hope of medalling). So oddly 7's being added to the Olympics has kind of had a negative effect on the XV's side.

And agreed with everyone else Rugby has very few connotations with being upper class. There is a traditional association with private/boarding schools I suppose but that would be about it, most guys out on a Saturday afternoon aren't really upper class. EnZed is bang on about the game being an English Canada thing though, there have been virtually no French-Canadian rugby players capped by Canada, I can only remember two, one of whom (Benoit Piffero) spent a large part of his youth in France. The women's game has more presence in French speaking Quebec so maybe that's a toehold to build on.

 

[jonny24]

Question for any Canadian. What is the status of rugby and the national players over there? And what's the view on rugby from the general public? Is it a upperclass sport? Or people not to good at hockey take up the sport?

Not upper class at all. I'd agree with nomadenhaft (Welcome, by the way!), it tends to be the opposite. Hockey is expensive, which means a fair number of players stop because of that, not because they're not good or don't want to play. There are also so many hockey players, and only so many can make it, so they play recreationally or play other sports. I wouldn't say any sports are affected by "class" connotations here, that seems to more of a UK thing. In fact, the general public as a whole isn't even aware enough of rugby to have pre conceptions about rugby beyond "That's like football without pads, right?".

I doubt anybody who isn't actually involved in rugby could name a national team player, let alone recognize them.

My uncle asked me last weekend "What about your goalies, do they wear any protection?" :lol:


Edit: after reading LG's post I'll add this. In my experience, playing rugby seems to be growing very quickly with women, especially the younger demographics. Both my high school and club had a lot more women than men playing. In HS the girls ran full junior and senior teams, while the boys struggled to field a team. My club has senior men and a scraped together u-18 that regularly plays with 13 or 14 guys, the women run seniors, u-18, getting u-16 started and I think entered a u-15 or 14 7's tourney this year. I think it has to do with football being almost entirely male.

 

[nomadenhaft]

Not upper class at all. I'd agree with nomadenhaft (Welcome, by the way!)

Cheers, good to be here!

In fact, the general public as a whole isn't even aware enough of rugby to have pre conceptions about rugby beyond "That's like football without pads, right?".

You are right on this, that was part of the deal with the "Own the Podium" program where the government gives more money to Olympic sports than non-Olympic ones(or teams with no hope of medalling). So oddly 7's being added to the Olympics has kind of had a negative effect on the XV's side.

I've made the argument elsewhere that any "oval-ball" exposure/success is potentially good for Canadian rugby across the board. I'm hoping the short-term XV's neglect will pay off in the long run if more Canadians get hooked in by 7's.

But that may be wishful thinking since XV's will never be in the Olympics. Plus, getting people playing 7's doesn't help unearth or develop any front-rowers.

 

[ENZED-88]

Thanks for all the replies guys, and maybe I worded it wrong by upperclass I didn't mean dukes and lords packing down for the local team lol but more of a private school thing. I didn't think of all the equipment needed for hockey must get pretty expensive.

Nomadenhaft thanks for the article, I agree with you on any oval ball being good for the game in developing rugby nations, 2 of NZ greatest players Cullen and Lomu came off the 7s scene. I think the game in non rugby countries should be built from the ground up, putting a lot of effort in with the kids ( I understand kids want to be like the guys they see on tv and back pages of newspapers so obviously hockey for you guys) but it's maybe the biggest advantage NZ has over other nations is we ALL pretty much start at 4 to 5 years old and develop from there and the more dedicated ones move on to higher honours It's good to see you guys over there enthusiastic about the game, those of you with kids would you put them in rugby or hockey?

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My uncle asked me last weekend "What about your goalies, do they wear any protection?" :lol:


.

HAHAHA

 

[jonny24]

Thanks for all the replies guys, and maybe I worded it wrong by upperclass I didn't mean dukes and lords packing down for the local team lol but more of a private school thing.

...

It's good to see you guys over there enthusiastic about the game, those of you with kids would you put them in rugby or hockey?

As far as I'm aware we don't really do the "fancy private school" thing. There is a separate Catholic school system but we don't wear uniforms till high school, and don't pay any extra money for attending, don't have be Catholic to go etc. Really just another school. Maybe the big cities have private schools. Or maybe I'm just too low class to know about it :lol:

 

[Kempistry]

As far as I'm aware we don't really do the "fancy private school" thing. There is a separate Catholic school system but we don't wear uniforms till high school, and don't pay any extra money for attending, don't have be Catholic to go etc. Really just another school. Maybe the big cities have private schools. Or maybe I'm just too low class to know about it :lol:

Yes and no. Generally rugby is emphasized at private schools such as Upper Canada College or Ashbury College, but in Canada very few people attend private schools so the total numbers aren't that high. I do think you'd find a disproportionate number of private school kids playing representative age grade rugby though as they get better training at an earlier age and can afford the travel.

Rugby players in Canada are very upper middle class imo.

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If you mean "upperclass" as in elitist, then definitely not, at least not in the way it's perceived by the general public.

If anything it's probably the other way around. We're used to the thought of expensive hockey equipment, so any sport with so little protective gear is considered a cheap option, especially for kids. That's why soccer participation is so high in Canada.

As for the players, I think at the moment there are fewer than 50 "carded" Canadian rugby players; these are athletes who are eligible to directly receive varying levels of government funding to play rugby. And I could be wrong, but I think all of them are from the national 7s program. Since there's no fully professional domestic league in Canada, I'm pretty sure every other player has to pay their own way through a combination of fundraising plus having a career outside of rugby.

If you're interested, there was a really interesting article written in the last few days about the general talent level of high-end Canadian rugby.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/1...t-column-jeff-hull-on-canadas-mens-rugby-gap/

Interesting but depressing article. I swear I've seen random guys on different clubs that look like they should be able to play at a higher level but they would never get the training, fitness or attention to actually get there.

 

[rusty_lock]

As far as I'm aware we don't really do the "fancy private school" thing. There is a separate Catholic school system but we don't wear uniforms till high school, and don't pay any extra money for attending, don't have be Catholic to go etc. Really just another school. Maybe the big cities have private schools. Or maybe I'm just too low class to know about it :lol:

The BEST high school rugby team in BC is very much a "fancy private school" thing. Shawnigan Lake is far and away the best rugby school going. Last year they were finally knocked off in the Provincial high school final by St. Georges, another very expensive private school from Vancouver. That being said, there are lots of public schools that run good programs and rugby is really a very affordable sport to play when compared to just about any other major sport.

 

[Beerfalo]

Here's another lazy round up.

London Scottish: Connor Braid played the full game at Inside Center as Scottish came back from an 8-0 deficit at half-time to win 26-22 against Yorkshire Carnegie.

Doncaster Knights and Bedford Blues: Jon Phelan got a full game in with Doncaster while Tyler Hotson came off the bench at the 62' minute. Justin Blanchet got a full game at Blindside Flanker for Bedford while Pritchard relieved his glory days of kicking with 3 conversions and 3 penalties as Bedford overcame a 23-9 Doncaster lead to win 35-29.

Plymouth Albion: All three Canucks saw playing time this week as Plymouth notched their first win of the season, beating Moseley 19-18. Andrew Tiedemann played until 75' as he moved back to Tighthead this game. Mark Kohler played the full game on the wing and Brett Buekeboom saw some time as he came in at the 64th minute.

SU Agen: Jason Marshall and Taylor Paris both got the start at their respective positions(TH and Wing) as Agen beat Tarbers 31-9 after a week.

Clermont Auvergne: Jamie Cudmore had the week off as Clermont went over Brive 44-20. Makes sense as Brive is a weaker team and they have Sale and Saracens coming up as they fight for top in their ERC group.

London Irish: Jebb Sinclair was available to play but was left off the game sheet.

London Welsh: Richard Thorpe made his return to the lineup as the Back Row reserve. He went in at the 56th minute at Blindside. Of course Welsh suck hard and they got rolled over 38-7 but at least he's healthy and got playing time.

Ospreys: Tyler Ardron got the full game at 8-Man as usual and had a try at 32nd minute as Ospreys went over Newport 22-11.

Glasgow Warriors: DTH came off the bench at 49th minute to play on the wing as usual and had a try at the 70th minute as Glasgow went over Scarlets 22-7.

No idea what Cam Pierce, Phil Mackenzie and Shane O'Leary(I'm holding out hope) have been doing most of the year. Just know they have been with the reserves of Pau, Sale and Connacht (almost)all season(s) respectively. I believe O'Leary has been playing Fly-Half for the Connacht Eagles(he's listed there for the game against Leinster 'A' tomorrow) but an Irishman told me that O'Leary wants to move to the Centers. I know he was on a one year deal with Connacht so I wonder what the future holds for our little Irish holdout.

Some Thoughts:
I'm glad Braid is getting playing time but we really need him playing Fly-Half regularly since he is our best option. He makes a real good center and in a perfect world would be our 12 but it's not a perfect world. Why does our current Fly-Half depth have to look like Center(Braid), 7s star(Jones) and doesn't belong outside a domestic club(Parfrey). Anyone know if Pat Kay has it in him?

Tiedemann seems to have been spending a good amount of time at Tighthead when he'd probably be better off at Loosehead. Especially if he wants to get any playing time for Canada. Marshall has starting Tighthead locked down and Ilnicki seems the best choice as backup and it's pretty close. Meanwhile it's a sharp drop off at Loosehead after Buydens. Phelan also seems to be getting the most time out of the non-Cudmore Locks. I more impressed(if that's even the right word) with him than Hotson or Buekeboom so it's a plus.

Are Blanchet and Kohler on Crowley's radar at all? Both seem to be consistent starters in England and dedicated XVs players. Couldn't hurt to try them out instead of all the 7s crossovers.

 

[jonny24]

Great roundup @Beerfalo! I like these, thanks for taking the time to write it up. Have an e-pint! :bonne-de:

I caught the end of the L Welsh game but forgot we had Thorpe there so didn't look for him (Was actually trying to find the Irish game but the links were wrong so I kept getting Welsh).

It's certainly not looking good for the boys at Plymouth, is it?

 

[canadafan]

Blanchett is one that I could see make the WC squad, he seems to be locking down a spot at Bedford and we are not as deep in the backrow as we used to be IMO. I am sure Pritchard is putting a word in for him, as it stands right now, if he isn't on our WC warm up tests squad, I won't be impressed. The only other surprises I could see in the WC squad are O'Leary (if he declares) and Pierce (at lock). That is baring a massive run of injuries.

 

[LittleGuy]

Not sure if anyone else saw this but the 7's "A"/developmental side the Maple Leafs played in South America last weekend and it was....horrifyingly terrible http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/01/11/mar-del-plata-7s-more-hard-rugby-lessons-young-maple-leafs-on-day-2/ some of the most shocking scorelines I've seen a Canadian side have in an event. It's consolation not a lot of big names were involved but big losses to Uruguay need to be concerning.

 

[canadafan]

Thanks, LG. I had mentally blocked that tour out of my mind.

 

[Kempistry]

Not sure if anyone else saw this but the 7's "A"/developmental side the Maple Leafs played in South America last weekend and it was....horrifyingly terrible http://blogs.theprovince.com/2015/01/11/mar-del-plata-7s-more-hard-rugby-lessons-young-maple-leafs-on-day-2/ some of the most shocking scorelines I've seen a Canadian side have in an event. It's consolation not a lot of big names were involved but big losses to Uruguay need to be concerning.

If you read the preview it looks like an extremely inexperienced and young, almost u20 team. Can't say it seems too surprising. This seems like just a way to look at future players rather than say to look at the top 17-30 7s players in Canada, not that anyone would have a clue who those people might be!

 

[canadafan]

It was a very inexperienced side, 1 of the members was from the Try 4 Gold try outs. I wouldn't read too much into those results, tbh.

 

[LittleGuy]

Thanks, LG. I had mentally blocked that tour out of my mind.

I tried to limit the suffering by not posting the actual scores

Fair points guys, maybe not too much should be read into this, other than as Kempistry said identifying depth and talent that far down the depth chart seems to be very challenging. With the added point that at some level right now Canadian Men's rugby could use some positive results to grasp on to, almost all news has been negative since Geraint John left the 7's program(XV's has been a shambles since RWCQ)

 

[canadafan]

Well, Rugby Alberta is moving in the right direction: http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsletter.cfm?clientID=3817&leagueID=0&page=85365

 

[Beerfalo]

I'm really proud and excited about the future of rugby in Alberta. Our youth programs(club, "city" and provincial) should hopefully be producing real results over the next couple years as players who grew up in the sport become adults. I'm especially pleased with the focus on improving coaching as that really goes hand in hand with player development. The province has a lot to offer Rugby Canada and with improved coaching and more focus on youth development we should be up there with BC and Ontario sooner rather than later.

Also does anyone know anything about Richard Townsend? I was looking through old RC news and saw his name. Only thing I know about him is he's around 24-25 and apparently plays Hooker. Apparently he is Canada eligible and played with the Ealing Trailfinders last year but can't find anything about him since they got relegated.

I also decided to look up our Irish kids as best I could and found Jack Fitzpatrick has had 8 starts, one game as reserve, 2 games I'm unsure about and one game off this season. Not sure what positions he's been playing though. As for Shane O'Leary, best I've found for him this year is 6 starts(B&I Cup plus a game against Leinster 'A'), 2 tries, 6 conversions and 7 penalties while being a utility back for Connacht Eagles. Not sure about any other games.

 

[canadafan]

I heard that O'Leary is starting at 10 this weekend.

About Alberta, it does seem like they are getting their act together, exciting times for them. I agree that they should improve quickly.

 

[LittleGuy]

Did anyone find out how long Carpenter's recovery time is? Couldn't find anything myself but wondered if anyone else had caught it.