2014 Canadian Rugby Championship and General Canadian Rugby Chat.

[jonny24]

North America in Super Rugby eh. Sounds as crazy as Japan fielding a team in a SA conference. I can hear Super Rugby fans *****ing as I type haha. It could be an interesting set up in the future though I'm pretty sure it will never happen. A "realistic" future conference could be two American based teams, a Canadian and two Japanese franchises. I'm thinking LA and San Jose for America, Vancouver for Canada and Tokyo and ??? for Japan(I don't know Japan). They'd obviously need some T1 "mercenaries" to bolster the ranks but hopefully they'd look at a lot of domestic players. I could definitely see a future LA team throwing money at some older All Blacks to try and make a splash. I mean it is the LA way.


Then we have club rugby feeding the CRC teams. The CRC teams feed the Vancouver Bears(I like bears and this is my hypothetical team). Then the Bears and Europe feeds the CMNT. I'd like to see less and less 7s players jumping right into 15s play for the CMNT.

I think the more likely option (professional team wise) is that one or two sides will be included in Super Rugby first - if that happens, maybe the profile of Rugby will be raised a bit, and a professional North American league will spawn from that

I'm not to sure about that, Shaggy. I think that if we were to get North American SR franchises, it would effectively kill off ever having our own pro league. There would no longer be the vacuum of having NO professional rugby, and then who is going to go to the risk of starting up a league if they are going to have to compete with Super Rugby for players, exposure, TV money etc. We'd then end up in the same position as Scotland, two or three pro franchises fed by a "semi pro" domestic competition- CRC. Maybe it's all we'll be able to support in North America, but I'd like to see us give it a shot on our own.

Say SR starts off by expanding to 20, adding one American and one Canadian team. IF they are considered successful, on and off the pitch, I only see that leading to perhaps a few more franchises. The only way it leads to more is if SR finally caps expansion, and there is STILL money, talent and appetite for more pro rugby here. In which case who knows how much more SR are willing to distort their competiton. I think they've jumped the shark already. Even if an NA league still started, it would be "second fiddle" to the existing, successful Super Rugby teams.

Now if things happen the other way around. Say the NRFL or somebody else gets a league off the ground. 6-12 teams, hopefully 2-3 Canadian teams. Toronto, Vancouver, Seattle, Houston, Denver, 2 in California, Boston, New York, Chicago, Philly, and one more. Or alternatively, USA Rugby gets it together, get regional rep teams set up, and they join up with the CRC. Then we get a pro rep comp that looks a little more like the Pro12 than the MLS-style first option. This option would give us more player development, against cities familiar to the North American sports fan, and all our own. If it can approach MLS levels of popularity that would be hugely successful. I'm not sure we could get there but it would be something to aim for. Now, if this league gives us an established player and fan base, I could still see Super Rugby looking at placing a few franchises here. Only in this case SR doesn't take away from our league, more like adds another level. The players in the Super teams would already be known from our domestic comp, it would almost be like an All Star team.

Look at me, going off into dream land again! By the way, have the NRFL people made any mention of including Canada? The APRC people do, but they seem almost as unlikely to get anything going.

 

[Beerfalo]

http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsletter.cfm?clientID=3817&leagueID=0&page=84826

Rugby Canada and Rugby Alberta held their Try 4 Gold ID Camp today and apparently it was a success. I didn't go because I was working a bingo for my club. Totally has nothing to do with the fact I'm a slow fat front row...nope, not at all hahaha. I like that Rugby Canada wants to run another ID camp in the summer and then future ones run by the different provincial unions with a partnership with RC. I mean obviously I'd prefer Rugby Canada focus on 15s but ain't no one paying for that. Sadly it's 7s that's the Olympic sport and it's 7s that the government is giving money to so might as well try and get the strongest program we possibly can. I wonder if we'll see an influx of players in the ERU and CRU this upcoming season. If players want to get into rugby and play 7s they should definitely be looking for clubs soon.

Also congrats on Canada playing well above my expectations and winning the Bowl in South Africa. I definitely didn't see that coming. I mean they should never have blown the game against France which would have sent them to the better rounds but a trophy is a trophy and it's better than another Shield. I do love that they beat Kenya for a third time in a row to win another trophy. Hopefully we get our injured guys back and can at least challenge for the Plate in Wellington. Still, sitting 12th in the rankings with a pitiful 14 points is not what I was expecting this year. With 6 stops left there's still time to turn it around for a respectable finish. Finishing 4th in the standings was never going to happen but Canada really needs to come together to beat a real tough American squad to get the NA spot in the 2016 Olympics and avoid the repechage playoff.

 

[canadafan]

200 turned out in Red Deer? That's about double I thought would turn out for that. Would have to re-read those article about that program, but think that would be the 2nd highest turnout they had. Hopefully they uncovered some talent.

About the men's 7s side, after a disasterous first day, they did the best they could on the second. Hopefully that's the turn around they need.

 

[welshglory]

Never is a very long time, though I agree that at the moment a professional rugby competitions chances of getting startedin the foreseeable future and even more so being succesful in North America are slim and none, with slim on a train out of town.

Looks like the 7's side has embraced the XV's 2nd half collapse routine, we were leading France by 21 at half and proceeded to blow it. At least we've looked a little more into it this series so far. Maybe some points can be salvaged tommorow, still the cup rounds could have been ours.

I was referring to club rugby, which some were bringing up and some have mentioned for the USA as well.

Franchises either private or provincial union is the only logical way forward. Historically, logistically, financially. Everything.

A national club comp in Canada be it pro or amateur is also unlikely because of the costs involved.

The only thing SANZAR and super rugby can offer the USA and Canada is intellectual property. In terms of running a sports league, it.goes against everything in North American culture, in the way it is set up.
The North American international game at the moment is not enough to sustain pro teams, which is the case in super rugby, and.will be the case with Japan and Argentina.

If you go North America, and in particular USA you go private.

So i imagine Sanzar will try to get involved, however plopping North America into super rugby probably won't do anybody a worth of good, except.perhaps the first tv deal.

 

[jonny24]

I was referring to club rugby, which some were bringing up and some have mentioned for the USA as well.

Franchises either private or provincial union is the only logical way forward. Historically, logistically, financially. Everything.

A national club comp in Canada be it pro or amateur is also unlikely because of the costs involved.

I was only speaking of the current amateur clubs when talking about the national club competition. I agree with you that the current clubs will never be pro. But i still think we could see some sort of national championship. Maybe the Prairie provincial champions play off, the Atlantic provinces play off, then semifinals of Ontario, BC, Prairie, and Atlantic club champions.

 

[canadafan]

This is our 2013 JWRT line up that faced Tonga, if I am not mistaken, it was very similar to the one that faced Italy in the final match, lost, and finished second in the tournament.

Canada U20 Starting Roster vs. Tonga:

1. Djustice Sears-Duru, (Leicester Tigers) Toronto, ON
2. Alex Mascott, (UBC Thunderbirds) Vancouver, BC
3. Ryan March, (Abbotsford Rugby Club) Abbotsford, BC
4. Thomas Roche, (Brandon Barbarians/Meralomas) Brandon, MB
5. Connor Hamilton, (UBC Thunderbirds) Vancouver, BC
6. Charlie Thorpe, (UBC Thunderbirds) Vancouver, BC
7. Matt Heaton, (SABRFC/James Bay Athletic Association) Chateauguay, QC
8. Jordan Harvey, (Capilano RFC) Vancouver, BC

9. Lucas Hammond, (Toronto Nomads), Toronto, ON
10. Shane O'Leary, (Young Munster) Munster, Ireland
11. Justin Douglas, (Abbotsford Rugby Club) Abbotsford, B.C.
12. Conor McCann, (Balmy Beach Rugby Club) Toronto, ON
13. Patrick Kay, (UVic Vikes) Duncan, BC
14. Jacob Webster, (Lindsay RFC) Lindsay, ON
15. Jack Fitzpatrick, (Dublin University Football Club) Dublin,Ireland

16. Sawyer Herron, (UVic Vikes) Oakville, ON
17. Neil Courtney, (UBC Thunderbirds) Vancouver, BC
18. Jason Galbraith, (Brandon Barbarians/Meralomas) Minnedosa, MB
19. Peter Van Buren, (Calgary Canucks) Calgary, AB
20. Jack Smith, (Peterborough RFC) Peterborough, ON
21. James Pitblado, (UVic Vikes) Vancouver, BC
22. Nathan Yanagiya, (UVic Vikes/Capilano RFC) Vancouver, BC

Realistically, some of these guys should be pushing for spots in the national team now, but are they making the step up yet?

Red - are making names for themselves and proving their worth
green - struggling to take the next step, but there is still hope.
Blue - struggling to make it in the CRC/Canadian leagues :?
No color - no idea what has happened to them

DSD and Douglas will make names for themselves internationally. If it wasn't for 2016, I think Douglas would be a pro in Europe by the summer. DSD will recover from his injury fine. Connor Hamilton will be a goodie too and plays in a relatively weak position for us, so yeah, he could be fast tracked a bit.

The concerns are O'Leary and Fitzgerald, O'Leary by all accounts is struggling for game time and with the realization that he needs to give up on his dream of playing for Ireland. Fitzgerald, has he plateaued? have heard almost nothing about him.

The real concerns are Kay and McCann, injuries have played their past, especially with McCann, but they seem to have disappeared.

 

[Beerfalo]

jonny24 I like that idea of the Prairie and Atlantic/Eastern club playoffs. Makes more sense than my idea of throwing a bunch of smaller unions at CDI and Marshall teams. No idea who would come out of the East but I'd assume the Alberta Cup winner would be joining BC and Ontario more often than not.

canadafan , Pat Kay was starting at Fly-Half for the BC Bears this last summer and is also in the 7s system now(like every back with potential it seems) as well as a CDI starter(as far as I know) so I wouldn't quite say he's a concern. He played in the Limerick 7s with the Vancouver Bears back in August and was a part of the team in Dubai and Port Elizabeth. I think he had a couple games in the SWS last year. I don't think he's CMNT XVs potential but could have a future in 7s like Harry Jones. He's definitely been more on the radar than Conor McCann who has pretty much disappeared since returning from France, despite playing for Balmy Beach. Hopefully McCann joins the Ontario Blues next summer and forms a good pair with Andrew Ferguson.

Canada's future team has some real talented known(and unknown) youth and if they develop properly could make some noise in Japan(if they stay mostly amateur then probably not).

Potential Future XV:
1) Djustice Sears-Duru
2) Matt Harrison
3) Jake Ilnicki
4) Connor Hamilton
5) Cam Pierce
6) Evan Olmstead
7) Justin Blanchet
8) Tyler Ardron
9) Gordon McRorie
10) Shane O'Leary(please give up on your Irish dream)
11) Taylor Paris
12) Connor Braid(way better suited here)
13) Adam Zaruba
14) Jeff Hassler
15) Andrew Coe(I've heard good things about him from Ontario players and don't trust Evans to stay healthy)

Potential Reserves(real hard to narrow down):
16) Casey Reed
17) Andrew Tiedemann
18) James Smith(I really liked what I saw of him this year)
19) Jebb Sinclair(He'll be older and probably better suited for Lock than Flanker)
20) Admir Cejvanovic
21) Andrew Ferguson
22) Justin Douglas
23) Lucas Hammond

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

jonny24 I like that idea of the Prairie and Atlantic/Eastern club playoffs. Makes more sense than my idea of throwing a bunch of smaller unions at CDI and Marshall teams. No idea who would come out of the East but I'd assume the Alberta Cup winner would be joining BC and Ontario more often than not.

canadafan , Pat Kay was starting at Fly-Half for the BC Bears this last summer and is also in the 7s system now(like every back with potential it seems) as well as a CDI starter(as far as I know) so I wouldn't quite say he's a concern. He played in the Limerick 7s with the Vancouver Bears back in August and was a part of the team in Dubai and Port Elizabeth. I think he had a couple games in the SWS last year. I don't think he's CMNT XVs potential but could have a future in 7s like Harry Jones. He's definitely been more on the radar than Conor McCann who has pretty much disappeared since returning from France, despite playing for Balmy Beach. Hopefully McCann joins the Ontario Blues next summer and forms a good pair with Andrew Ferguson.

Canada's future team has some real talented known(and unknown) youth and if they develop properly could make some noise in Japan(if they stay mostly amateur then probably not).

Potential Future XV:
1) Djustice Sears-Duru
2) Matt Harrison
3) Jake Ilnicki
4) Connor Hamilton
5) Cam Pierce
6) Evan Olmstead
7) Justin Blanchet
8) Tyler Ardron
9) Gordon McRorie
10) Shane O'Leary(please give up on your Irish dream)
11) Taylor Paris
12) Connor Braid(way better suited here)
13) Adam Zaruba
14) Jeff Hassler
15) Andrew Coe(I've heard good things about him from Ontario players and don't trust Evans to stay healthy)

Potential Reserves(real hard to narrow down):
16) Casey Reed
17) Andrew Tiedemann
18) James Smith(I really liked what I saw of him this year)
19) Jebb Sinclair(He'll be older and probably better suited for Lock than Flanker)
20) Admir Cejvanovic
21) Andrew Ferguson
22) Justin Douglas
23) Lucas Hammond

Jamie Cudmore is going to pull a Rod Snow and still play in 2019

 

[LittleGuy]

Douglas did very poorly in XV's last winter in the CDI, think he should be moved more to a 7's specialist role where he is brilliant and only be an emergency option for the XV's side. It might be time to separate the 7's and XV's fgames a bit more, judging from this year lots of players couldn't handle transferring their games so frequently.

 

[Beerfalo]

Douglas did very poorly in XV's last winter in the CDI, think he should be moved more to a 7's specialist role where he is brilliant and only be an emergency option for the XV's side. It might be time to separate the 7's and XV's fgames a bit more, judging from this year lots of players couldn't handle transferring their games so frequently.

I only listed Douglas because I'm lazy and had just looked at 7s stuff before I wrote the post and he was the first name to come to mind.

I agree, I would prefer that XVs and 7s should be separate but we just can't justify it right now. Not until we have a better system for solely developing XVs players. The CRC campaign is just too short and our domestic leagues are just too spread out and aren't strong enough on their own for us to keep pace in the professional era.

Another dream section(I really should try and sleep) so don't take it too seriously

I think we need a return of the Super League, though I do understand it's too expensive to run unless we got real backers behind them. Would also need proper advertising to get people(non rugby fans) caring and attending. Keep it two separate leagues to avoid expensive cross country travel. You should be able to charter a bus for most cities though the bus definitely sucks. There would be a Western league and Eastern league and only the winner of each league plays their opposite in a final.

Rugby Canada West
BC Division: Vancouver Island Crimson Tide(Victoria), Vancouver Wave, Fraser Valley Venom(Abbotsford), Okanagan Elk (Kelowna)
Prairie Division: Edmonton Gold, Calgary Mavericks, Saskatchewan Prairie Fire(Regina), Manitoba Lakemen(Winnipeg)

Rugby Canada East
Ontario Division: Niagara Lightning, Toronto Rebellion, Ottawa Harlequins, London Kings
Atlantic Division: Montreal Voyageurs, Newfoundland Rock, New Brunswick Black Spruce(such an awesome name), Halifax Keltics

You play your division rivals home and away and then the opposite division 2H/2A. The Prairie and Atlantic teams are definitely going to feel the travel more than BC and Ontario. The BC teams are all closer to Edmonton than Winnipeg is. This at least concentrates a unions top players and gives them 10 quality games as well as extra looks from Rugby Canada. The players go back to their clubs when not playing for their RC team. Have it between April and July and then the best players get selected to the CRC and get an additional 6 high quality games(though I wish there could be more). I can see gaining a shot at the CRC(and potentially Canada) would entice enough players in each union to take part.

I also wish Rugby Canada could work with the WRU again to get players pro contracts. Maybe a Pro 12 team built like the old RGC 1404 that used both Canadian and Welsh players. I've read the WRU wants a North Wales Pro 12 team(using RGC 1404) and Canada gets sent to Colwyn Bay often enough so it seems like a perfect pairing to me. Doesn't have to be 50/50 split but would at least give a shot to some current top Canadians needing a pro club like Hubert Buydens, Jake Ilnicki, Kyle Gilmour and Gordon McRorie. I'd call it something like RGC Wolverines and leave the current RGC 1404 as a lower league/division team.

 

[Beerfalo]

I'm bored and winter is a slow season for Canadian rugby so I thought I'd give my shot at a lazy weekly round up of what our Canadian pros are doing. If I missed anyone or anything...oh well I'll try and remember next time.

Aviva Premiership Round 11:
London Irish vs London Welsh: Thorpe seems to be missing since the AIs(injured?) so Jebb Sinclair was the only Canadian in this game. He started at 8-Man for the Irish and might as well have played the full game as he registered 79 minutes in a 24-9 win.

Can't find any info on what Phil Mackenzie is doing. Aviva A League is my information finding kryptonite it seems. I know he's been spending the bulk of his time with Sale Jets instead of the Sharks but surely he's at least RFU Championship starting quality. I can't help but feel he deserves better.

RFU Championship Round 9:
London Scottish vs Worcester Warriors: Connor Braid started on the bench but went on at the 38th minute, subbing off Dan Newton at Fly-Half in a losing effort as Worcester beat Scottish 34-17.

Nottingham vs Doncaster Knights: Jon Phelan started at Lock(4) and as far as I can tell played the full game as Doncaster fell 24-3. Tyler Hotson was not on the roster.

Bedford Blues vs Bristol: Two Canadians started for 80 minutes each in a hard fought loss against top ranked Bristol. Justin Blanchet started at Blindside Flanker while James Pritchard was his usual Fullback. Pritchard had a try and two conversions but also missed two as the Blues fell 24-28 in a close loss. Why hasn't Blanchet been getting called up to the national team?

Plymouth Albion vs Cornish Pirates: These two teams employ three and two Canadians respectively but only Plymouth made use of theirs. Mark Kholer started on the Wing(14) while Andrew Tiedemann was the starting Tighthead. Kholer played 80 minutes while Tiedemann was subbed off at the 64th and Brett Buekeboom came off the bench at the 62nd minute. Aaron Carpenter and Matt Evans were not on the roster for Cornish but their team did come out ahead 27-19.

Top 14 Round 14:
Lyon vs Clermont Auvergne: Jamie Cudmore hasn't suited up since he started in Clermont's 26-19 win over Munster back on December 14th.

Pro D2 Round 15:
Agen vs Massy: Taylor Paris played a full 80 on the Wing(11) while Jason Marshall came off the bench at the 32nd minute to play Tighthead. Marshall scored a try at the 38th minute and helped Agen go over Massy 34-29.

Carcassonne vs Pau: Cam Pierce came off the bench at the 42nd minute at Lock(4) as Pau fell 40-27.

Pro 12 Round 11:
Glasgow Warriors vs Edinburgh: DTH van der Merwe started the full game on the Wing(11) as Glasgow beat Edinburgh 16-6.

Ospreys vs Scarlets: Tyler Ardron started the full game at 8-Man as Ospreys beat Scarlets 17-15.

Inactive/Injured/Unkown: Jamie Cudmore(Lock/Clermont), Tyler Hotson(Lock/Doncaster), Richard Thorpe-I(Back Row/London Welsh), Matt Evans-I(Fullback/Cornish), Aaron Carpenter(Hooker/Cornish), Phil Mackenzie(Wing-Center/Sale), Jeff Hassler-I(Wing/Ospreys)
I=injured to my knowledge

 

[canadafan]

Great to hear Pierce getting some quality game time in the Pro D2. Him and Blanchett could get some looks in next summer, hopefully.

 

[Beerfalo]

Here's another lazy roundup of our Canadians abroad. I wish I was more detailed but I'm not a journalist, I'm lazy and I don't know how to watch RFU Championship rugby. If anything is wrong, well I don't care and I'm also sorry haha.

RFU Championship
Plymouth Albion: Andrew Tiedemann moved from Tighthead to Loosehead and Mark Kohler got the start at Right Wing. Both guys played the full 80 minutes in a rough 55-18 loss against league leading Bristol. Brett Buekeboom was absent from the gameday roster. It does suck that the team with the most Canadians outside of Canada is sitting firmly at the bottom of the league and will almost assuredly get relegated at the end of the season.

Bedford Blues: James Pritchard started at Fullback(obviously) had a conversion(1/3) and two penalties while Justin Blanchet got the start at Blindside Flanker in a 23-15 win over Moseley.

Doncaster Knights: Jon Phelan got the start at Lock and played the full game for Doncaster Knights in a narrow loss against Rotherham ***ans. Tyler Hotson started out on the bench and stayed there.

London Scottish: Connor Braid continues to prove himself a utility back as he got the start at Inside Center(where he'd be playing for Canada in an ideal world) as Scottish fell to Nottingham 22-21.

Cornish Pirates: Aaron Carpenter and Matt Evans where both absent from the Pirates roster. https://twitter.com/MattEvans_88/status/550305184396902400 here's some good news at least. Evans seems recovered and training again. He also just turned 27 on Friday. Hopefully he gets back on the game sheet soon and reclaims the Fullback spot. We could really really use him during the PNC and at the RWC. No idea what's going on with Carpenter.

Pro D2:
Jason Marshall, Taylor Paris and Cam Pierce had the week off from ProD2 play as the league took a break. Play starts up again next week.

Top 14:
Clermont-Auvergne: Jamie Cudmore returned to the field, starting at Lock. The studly Canadian played 75 minutes in a 24-6 win over Toulouse.

Aviva Premiership:
London Irish: Jebb Sinclair did not make the gameday roster due to a shin injury. He had it off to recover but is expected to play against the Exeter Chiefs on the 11th.
London Welsh: Richard Thorpe has been absent from the roster for weeks now due to injury(or so I've read).
Sale Sharks: Not surprisingly Phil Mackenzie again has not played for the Sharks. Definitely can't be the way he's wanted his year to go especially as he should have been a big part of the RWC squad since his competition is some 7s backs and Nick "Bleh" Blevins.

Pro 12:
Ospreys: Ardron got the full game at 8-man as Ospreys fell 22-10 to Scarlets.
Glasgow Warriors: DTH had the game off.

I wonder if Hubert Buydens has had any offers. I thought for sure he'd be very popular after his ITM Cup season and the fact he looked fairly competent more often than not during the AIs. He's our best prop(at least I think so) and shouldn't have to settle for CDI Premier league for games.

I think Hassler has had his knee surgery now and is recovering. Hopefully it's a "quick" recovery and doesn't affect him going forward. He's a huge part of our team and has a very bright future in the sport.

 

[LittleGuy]

News on Carpenter, just had neck surgery for a bulging disc. Not exactly a great start for our Senior Men's prospects this year. I haven't read any potential recovery times though Neck injuries tend to lean to the longish range.

 

[psychic duck]

News on Carpenter, just had neck surgery for a bulging disc. Not exactly a great start for our Senior Men's prospects this year. I haven't read any potential recovery times though Neck injuries tend to lean to the longish range.

Looks like you will be entering the World Cup with important front line players coming back rusty following surgery. Not ideal at all.

 

[ENZED-88]

Question for any Canadian. What is the status of rugby and the national players over there? And what's the view on rugby from the general public? Is it a upperclass sport? Or people not to good at hockey take up the sport?

 

[Shaggy]

Question for any Canadian. What is the status of rugby and the national players over there? And what's the view on rugby from the general public? Is it a upperclass sport? Or people not to good at hockey take up the sport?

It doesn't seem to be an upper class sport in my eyes. I've met lots of people who have played or are playing just out in the general public while wearing a rugby jersey or picking up that I might be interested from the sound of my accent.

It seems to be popular with both Men and Women in terms of actual players, but the promotion of the big matches could get more people interested.

The last time Canada played the States in Edmonton, the general public didn't seem to know it was on.

Rugby faces the same challenges that a lot of sports in Canada face - the weather, the sheer distance that you need to travel, money etc, but having said that, it is the fastest growing sport in North America.

Hockey will always be king here, and it's definitely where the money is.

 

[canadafan]

I don't think it is an 'upper class' sport, but it is a 'pay to play' sport, which means not always the best players are selected, especially with junior teams. Rugby is an untapped market here in Canada and if certain regions take it more seriously, rugby could boom here.

 

[ENZED-88]

I've only ever met 3 Canadians in my life worked with them here in Australia but all 3 never took no **** off no one and are extremely loyal with those of us they call friends EXTREMELY, both very important qualities for a player. I would assume (I don't know why I just do) that rugby would be more popular among the English speaking Canadians? And canadafan what do you mean by pay to play? Are you speaking of registration fees or you actually have to pay to play?

 

[PEIslander]

He means pay to play. I'm a junior player and had to pay hundreds of dollars to go to the u18 nationals this past summer. The only financial support was fundraising that the players did. Guys I play uni with from Ontario had to pay hundreds more than me I guess they didn't fundraise. I went to a u19 crc camp this past weekend which is supposed to be the top of canadian junior rugby and I had to pay 50$ for the privilege.