2014 6 Nations: Scotland vs France (Round 4)

[Tony Manx]

You mean, the same strategy than during the last WC final ?

................worked then...nearly!!

 

[FrenchFan]

well one doesn't disallow the other. England don't play the most inventive style, never have, and in fact they're doing much better this year. But France are in the worst shape they've ever been since becoming relevant, by far. France aren't "boring", they don't know how to play anymore. Big difference. England are actually playing their game, and efficiently. What we've seen on screen ? That's what they do. We just have no clue who we are atm.



If France wins this tournament, it would most certainly be the funniest thing in 6N history. I thought England were way lackluster last year for a ***le winner (when I thought they'd win it), but this right here....this would be something of a sketch.

I seriously think I'm going to start focusing on the Top 14 a lot more from now on.

ah ah ah read your post big ewis and had to laugh out loud :lol: when i joined this forum i said i was more of a follower of the Top14 than the national side now you starting to see why, you're on your way to becoming a true french rugby fans :clapping::clapping:

 

[FrenchFan]

After the amazing win yesterday in Scotland, PSA still has his job, if you are Irish i am sure you are hoping that he picks the same side or group for the Ireland game next Sat.
If you are French in comes Parra, FTD and a back row which does not include anyone from the 2nd row + anyone else with a little bit of international experience, the players will lock PSA Bru and Lagisquet in the broom cupboard till 21.00 Sat evening only allowing PSA out for press releases and interviews but with absolutely no contact with the players, only thing he does well, talk a good game!!!!! Think its great also for BOD to have his last game in Paris he throughly deserved his send off in Dublin great player great career was a little embarassing for him yesterday but he did well and
Man of the Match, who would have guessed that one completely out of the blue!!!!!!!!!
A draw today at twickers and the final in Paris next Sat. PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yep he talks a great game our Philippe you have to hand it to him. At the end of some of his press conf you're left wondering which game he was actually talking about. I remember him saying after the last AB game in Paris that we should have passed the ball more!?! WDF%$^&*!

the game is for the Irish to take.

 

[FrenchFan]

ah ah ah read your post big ewis and had to laugh out loud :lol: when i joined this forum i said i was more of a follower of the Top14 than the national side now you starting to see why, you're on your way to becoming a true french rugby fans :clapping::clapping:

Top14 resumes on 21st march with Clermont v Toulon both are level with 60 pts at the top
Toulouse will travel to SF only 1 pt separates them
Montpellier should beat Oyonnax and could again take the lead

can't wait for the real rugby to start and watch a full strenght Toulouse work its way back into the top 3

enough of this 6N lark. For value and entertainment its a pisser compared with our Top14

 

[gaston le gaff]

You mean, the same strategy than during the last WC final ?

and 2003 when Galthie took over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ruggabee]

Even though I don't really have much of an allegiance to France, it is still frustrating to watch their performances recently. They possess players with a variety of skills. Physical or flamboyant rugby. They can do it. They can play a loose game or a tight game. We know they can. Problem is there's no game plan. Watching France it seems like they try to play the game as if it's a game of backyard touch. There's no structure. I've yet to see a complex play off a set piece that fixes defenders/causes mismatches/creates space. If they could implement that they would be so difficult to live with. Imagine France having a coach like Schmidt who instils great detail and fine execution to team play. Another thing I noticed is their lack of urgency. There was a point close to the end of the Wales game where they were strolling up to the line out and they were behind on the scoreboard. Not the least bit bothered or willing to play catch up. They need a coach who can instil accuracy and urgency. Part of me doesn't want that cos then it's harder to beat them but a part of me misses watching a French team in full flow.

 

[Big Ewis]

ah ah ah read your post big ewis and had to laugh out loud :lol: when i joined this forum i said i was more of a follower of the Top14 than the national side now you starting to see why, you're on your way to becoming a true french rugby fans :clapping::clapping:

jt'emmerde !!!
France has literally never been this bad. We thought we'd hit rock bottom in Cardiff, we did a lot worse here ! I never felt my team was 'weak', now I actually do. My confidence is almost gone, I feel we're almost Tier 2. It's the first time I ever feel that way, we've always been unpredictable and all that but I always felt confident in France's ability. Even throughout 2013, our worst year ever by far since we became relevant.

You know, we've actually gotten much worse than 2013 btw when you think about it ? Rome 2013 wasn't a bad performance, but a slightly lazy one, and Italy did play very well. We were relevant against Wales and in Twickenham, just couldn't finish those games. We managed a draw against a fired up Irish team in Dublin, and kept it together 3 out of 4 times against NZ, incl. being 5 meters away from a draw at home in November. And then a fair resistance against a huge Boks side.

But this year we can't do the most basic things. We have no consistency in any field of the game (except defense) and have lost our strengths.

Obviously best case scenario England and Wales draw paving the way for France to steal a sneaky tiny win next week in Paris and winning the tournament! 
2nd best case scenario Wales earn a hard win today in Twickenham but only win by 3points (good possibility), then France beat Ireland by a converted try and and win the tournament! 
Worst case scenario England beat Wales today and we would need to put 3 or 4 tries past Ireland to win  not going to happen!

Yes all that. Or England beats Wales and then loses in Rome against the hungriest Italians you've ever seen with Parisse back, starving for their only win of the tournament. That way everybody's lost 2 games but us, as we defeat Ireland in Paris.

The craziest thing is: as unlikely (yet PERFECT) as it would be if England and Wales aaaaactually drew today, we'd still have to beat a super super well coached, enormously motivated and very talented XV. I don't think we can beat too many teams atm...
so even in the event of a draw this afternoon, an uber-narrow probability which would seem so perfect it's a fairy tale for France, we can still just take a pounding in Paris next week.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

where are you from Ewis ? u were french then your cuban then a egyption and now a english ? whats going on why do you keep changing it

 

[Big Ewis]

where are you from Ewis ? u were french then your cuban then a egyption and now a english ? whats going on why do you keep changing it

as Big Ewis, I am but a thinking substance roaming free on TRF. I can shape-shift at any moment and assume the existence of any citizen-type I want. Rather than it all being random, there's a calculated pattern in the works, but that's all too complex and highly confidential to lay out here...and after all..........I....am Big Ewis.

Even though I don't really have much of an allegiance to France, it is still frustrating to watch their performances recently. They possess players with a variety of skills. Physical or flamboyant rugby. They can do it. They can play a loose game or a tight game. We know they can. Problem is there's no game plan. Watching France it seems like they try to play the game as if it's a game of backyard touch. There's no structure. I've yet to see a complex play off a set piece that fixes defenders/causes mismatches/creates space. If they could implement that they would be so difficult to live with. Imagine France having a coach like Schmidt who instils great detail and fine execution to team play. Another thing I noticed is their lack of urgency. There was a point close to the end of the Wales game where they were strolling up to the line out and they were behind on the scoreboard. Not the least bit bothered or willing to play catch up. They need a coach who can instil accuracy and urgency. Part of me doesn't want that cos then it's harder to beat them but a part of me misses watching a French team in full flow.

I feel what you're saying. I'm not particularly affiliated with France either - I mean I prefer tea over coffee for one - and yet I can't help but feel France are frustrating to watch myself. They might have the most talent in all of Europe, and are deep as a Victor Hugo quote, and yet their incompetence on a few levels renders them incapable of committing fully to a game and allowing for but the most basic fundamentals to take place, and thus cannot progress in a logical motion going forward with their play.
They'll manage to cover that up with a 3/4 back's individual prowess keeping them in the game or even putting them well ahead, at least temporarily. But their lack of consistency - *any sort* of consistency, even for France's standards - is simply appalling, there's just no other word, it's just a fact at this point.
Add to that each game seems to conjure a new deficiency in some other sector of the game, their comical amount of injuries...and yet, most comical of all, they're still winning (!)

Phillipe Saint-André absolutely needs to go. He needs to leave like I need to defecate at this very moment: really, really badly, to the point of fainting and possibly other complications. It's that bad. He and his posse need to run away far into places we never knew existed and won't ever find them in.
As it's been well touched on here by FrenchFan, Saint-André is a good speaker. Amidst the awkward tremolos in his voice, there seems to always be comforting sounds and positive vibes. He seems to always know where to look in those matches and gather those elements into a fairly convincing speech ultimately.
As long as he does that, and France manage to keep their heads above water-level; even if it's only just and they have no clue how they're achieving it; he's in for the long haul, and nothing and no one will change that fact.
France need a disaster record wise to see actual change, which they so heart-wrenchingly deserve.

 

[jaunard06]

Phillipe Saint-André absolutely needs to go.

The problem is less with PSA than with the people that chose the coach: the FFR. Also good french coaches are hard to move away from their clubs, whether you think of Galthié, Noves, Laporte, whoever.

Apart of this, we need a status of the international player. Something that protects him against being torn between the selection and the club, that defines precisely how much time the player must spend with the XV de France, that prevent the club from preempting him at the last moment for a big match, that limits the number of matches played in a year more than for a player that's not international. I know what I'm saying is hard for clubs that spent a lot of money in training players, raising them to international level to finally see them leaving at the worst moment to play with France. But for the clubs, having international players is not only a pain but if correctly managed it can be an advantage, the player also improves by playing at the highest level. reducing the number of teams, having for example a Top 12 is the solution to most of those issues: less championship games, more time for the selection, less risk of injury, fresh players for international games.

 

[jrZielinski]

i think PSA should stay,

 

[Big Ewis]

jaunard, yes you're right of course. The "player status" notion is one that should be applied according to that FFR-LNR convention, but God knows how much of that was official, clearly written word for word and signed, and will be respected at all anyhow by those darn clubs.

As for the internationals playing for France, as I keep saying, the Six Nations and test matches have been there since the dawn of Rugby. In fact, they ARE Rugby. Not anymore of course, with leagues like the Aviva Prem or Top14 and all, but the international game still is huge, so I mean, clubs just have to take it down a notch and understand they're impeding on territory that isn't theirs. I mean what's next, no more France at all ? Yes, reading up on those owners and coaches, basically, as far as they're concerned the int'ls and tournaments and all that are just a waste, deprive them of their best players, are unfair because some clubs give more players away....etc....so in the end, according to that cast of people the int'l game should simply be cancelled entirely. Yes. It should be the 5N with ENG, IRE, WAL, SCO and ITA. No France. Seriously, no France. I mean they complain as much as they breathe, and keep repeating that as far as they're concerned they just want their players and have a season to manage and games to win. They say this as if there were no international duty for some of those players.
They play the deaf-dumb-blind card and push the club duty thing, explaining how miserable they are as they are unfairly stripped of their best French players. If they continue to play the stubborn, "we're on an isolated island" game then the FFR and LNR will never - never - be able to work it out.

If you look at what the FFR is asking for, it's 100% within logic and reasonable demands any national organization could ask for. It's the Top14 that won't listen and will constantly violate the semblances of laws established.

 

[Benz]

i think chris cusiter should have started and greig laidlaw would probably play 10 next year since he is moving to gloucester who i think needs a 10 next year and that where laidlaw comes in

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

i think chris cusiter should have started and greig laidlaw would probably play 10 next year since he is moving to gloucester who i think needs a 10 next year and that where laidlaw comes in

most agreed but we really need to drop weir for the next game and then we can start to think about vern

 

[KAPman]

It would be bad for the championship if france win it by playing virtually no rugby!
That match was ours for the taking yesterday, n we didnt manage the game well enough in the second half. i do think we were mugged with the last penalty, but by that point France shouldnt have been in with a sniff of a win, considering how bad they were. Good n bad scotland were responsible for everything on the scoreboard (Except the last penalty, but we were responsible for france getting into that position).
This s the worst french team ive ever seen. They look more disorganised than they did at the last world cup, n yet they are in with a slim chance of winning the six nations! How?! They havent played with any creativity or smartness, all they've done is live off opposition giving away pens, turnovers n interceptions. Saint-Andre has been n charge of this team for over 2 years now, and I have no clue at all with what he wants from his team.

He is so reluctant to pick Trinh-Duc when he's the best 10 in France, Plisson (After a mixed game against England) has been terrible, hasnt kicked well nor given his outside backs any direction. He persists with one-dimensional Bastereaud over the more skilful, and more dangerous Fickou. He hasnt given his backline any attacking moves at all, they all just run straight and pass the ball around like headless chickens. He persists with the now erratic Nicolas Mas at tighthead prop.
The only players who actually look like they're trying to give France serious go forward are Picamoles (who was dropped) and Dulin from full back. Huget has been clinical with his fortuitous tries, but apart from that isnt given the ball enough.
I hope Ireland thump this French team well next week

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

KAPman could you please post stuff more often we would love to hear from more scott's since there is only a couple off us around

 

[Big Ewis]

It would be bad for the championship if france win it by playing virtually no rugby!
That match was ours for the taking yesterday, n we didnt manage the game well enough in the second half. i do think we were mugged with the last penalty, but by that point France shouldnt have been in with a sniff of a win, considering how bad they were. Good n bad scotland were responsible for everything on the scoreboard (Except the last penalty, but we were responsible for france getting into that position).
This s the worst french team ive ever seen. They look more disorganised than they did at the last world cup, n yet they are in with a slim chance of winning the six nations! How?! They havent played with any creativity or smartness, all they've done is live off opposition giving away pens, turnovers n interceptions. Saint-Andre has been n charge of this team for over 2 years now, and I have no clue at all with what he wants from his team.

He is so reluctant to pick Trinh-Duc when he's the best 10 in France, Plisson (After a mixed game against England) has been terrible, hasnt kicked well nor given his outside backs any direction. He persists with one-dimensional Bastereaud over the more skilful, and more dangerous Fickou. He hasnt given his backline any attacking moves at all, they all just run straight and pass the ball around like headless chickens. He persists with the now erratic Nicolas Mas at tighthead prop.
The only players who actually look like they're trying to give France serious go forward are Picamoles (who was dropped) and Dulin from full back. Huget has been clinical with his fortuitous tries, but apart from that isnt given the ball enough.
I hope Ireland thump this French team well next week

good post. A lot in here is spot-on.

The interesting thing would be to ask the players themselves what they think of this whole situation. Are they globally lucid enough and conscious of what the critics are saying about them ? Do they realize, like, "guys, God, we're soooooo bad, we really need to do something about this, it's embarrassing !..." or do they sort of brush it off each time and keep hoping that with an extra week they'll work on those flaws...
It would be very interesting to pick them one by one and have them interviewed separately and observe their body language, facial expression, the words they use, the tone...

It seems blindingly obvious from the outside, but sometimes even the most intelligent minds lack hindsight when they're the subject of a situation themselves, and it's very hard not to be a fish in a bowl.

I don't think they're that conscious about it...they have an idea obviously, but...
just a small example: in the post-game interview for this match (SCO FRA), Brice Dulin was asked what won the game for France, and he said "well I'm not exactly sure, but....blah blah blah...team, stick together...etc...". He actually didn't know what to answer after an 80min game, not a single clear thought, not a single key word to give


Here's a thought:
after this is over (the tournament), and when Dusautoir, Fritz, Kayser, Parra, all the flankers and eventually Guitoune on the wing return, and they'll be considerably better - maybe all they need is a change at FH to give life to this XV again like Michalak did in 2012.
Maybe, but this will not happen, maybe François Trinh-Duc returning for good could rejuvenate this team and they'd start to find a good tempo and things would come to them gradually. It's not ideal, but knowing we have to keep PSA - perhaps all we need is a bit of a trigger. We know we can play well under him, those 4 straight wins in 2012 were no fluke at all.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

its disappointing that france had changed so much after the world cup.

when i first got interest into rugby i always thought off france as quick on the ball and play's with huge passion and has a good flare in they're attacking, and pretty much the tries they scored then (before the world cup) were very well deserved. and then they become like this but fair enough that this was a hard year for france as they're no-1 captain is out and had alot off players out for the scotland game. but if they win then i rather they win by playing hard and good rugby and no lucky interceptions.

and a question which i was going to ask is why was Marc Lièvremont sacked ? im not sure if he did but that is what i was told i thought he was a pretty good coach, well ... definitely better that PSA

 

[Big Ewis]

the hilarious thing is that during Lievremont, everybody thought we'd hit rock-bottom and he was the cause of our dismay (partially true of course) and we took some serious poundings under him, and weren't always spot on on attack, etc...
you may have heard of the 2011 RWC anecdote, that the French players coached themselves and didn't recognize him as their coach. They disputes often...
anyways: he won France a Grand Slam, which isn't nothing. 2010. And crazy enough, although typically French, France met NZ in the final, and gave them quite a run for their money, (to say the least...).

And it's hilarious because, right now some ppl would actually want him back, that's how bad the french public considers PSA.

France has clearly never been this bad.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

this is to me clearly the worst time for french rugby, really needs to change that

you may have heard of the 2011 RWC anecdote, that the French players coached themselves and didn't recognize him as their coach.

i actually never heard off that