2014 6 Nations: Italy vs England (Round 5)

[Maverick1987]

Anyway this is a thread for people to talk about the upcoming game not argue about past games . I don't think it's unfair for England fans to be confident of beating Italy they are a team we shouldn't take lightly but by the end we should have them put away reasonable easily I would think . Regarding Joe Marler good luck to him it's a bit of a hit for England hopefully Mako can match Castro at scrum time ! Chuffed Tuilagi is on the bench though . Looks like we have seen the end of Ashton, Barritt and Goode this 6N

 

[Big Ewis]

Ewis, you may have had a point about England not having a team that can run/step the ball in the past, but have you been watching this tournament? Brown is in the form of his life, stepping everyone, and well on his way to being named man of the tournament. May and Nowell are also making up a back three that I've seen labelled "the most dangerous back three in the tournament". For all of May's criticisms, a lack of defenders beaten isn't one of them. Burrell has been very impressive too in that respect. We have potentially the most mobile second row of any nation in the world now, with Lawes replacing Parling. Care is a big step up from Youngs and Dickson. Farrell is getting better by the week, and him and Twelvetrees are orchestrating everything. Then you have the likes of Tuilagi and Ford on the bench...

You'd have to be holding to some pretty steadfast prejudices if you think England can't attack. Like Australia? Maybe not. But we can heap the pressure in the way Australia would struggle, and defend probably more ferociously too.

all this isn't nearly the point j'nuh. The treatment I get relatively to the treatment I offer folks on here is unacceptable by some, incredibly childish and often perfectly irrelevant.

I didn't say "England can't attack". Read my posts again.
And I don't care about the defenders beaten stats or who England have on their roster, France are arguably more impressive there but are a miserable Rugby team atm. England are not a miserable Rugby team atm, but as discussed previously aren't the most clinical, precise and creative attack in test Rugby, as seen throughout the past 4 matches in Feb. and March.

And if we can't calmly discuss points, however wrong I could be which I'm not in occurrence, and I'm going to talk to babies, wtf are we doing here ? I'll be DAMNED before some fkboy forbids me from making the points I'd like to make on any thread I want, provided they're not made to insult, hurt or provoke anyone.

Anyway this is a thread for people to talk about the upcoming game not argue about past games . I don't think it's unfair for England fans to be confident of beating Italy they are a team we shouldn't take lightly but by the end we should have them put away reasonable easily I would think . Regarding Joe Marler good luck to him it's a bit of a hit for England hopefully Mako can match Castro at scrum time ! Chuffed Tuilagi is on the bench though . Looks like we have seen the end of Ashton, Barritt and Goode this 6N

dude, look, see you're not even informed Castrogiovanni is out for the game and you're rooting for some imbecile and his England and Australia vs Italy stats...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

all this isn't nearly the point j'nuh. The treatment I get relatively to the treatment I offer folks on here is unacceptable by some, incredibly childish and often perfectly irrelevant.

I didn't say "England can't attack". Read my posts again.
And I don't care about the defenders beaten stats or who England have on their roster, France are arguably more impressive there but are a miserable Rugby team atm. England are not a miserable Rugby team atm, but as discussed previously aren't the most clinical, precise and creative attack in test Rugby, as seen throughout the past 4 matches in Feb. and March.

And if we can't calmly discuss points, however wrong I could be which I'm not in occurrence, and I'm going to talk to babies, wtf are we doing here ? I'll be DAMNED before some fkboy forbids me from making the points I'd like to make on any thread I want, provided they're not made to insult, hurt or provoke anyone.



dude, look, see you're not even informed Castrogiovanni is out for the game and you're rooting for some imbecile and his England and Australia vs Italy stats...

So in other words you don't care about evidence, you just want to reel off a load of nonsense and then get your knickers in a twist and reinforce your already extremely developed persecution complex. Clearly the reason you are getting flak can't be because of the absolute tripe you are coming up with but because we English all have some axe to grind and are oh so offended. You don't care that England have beaten more defenders than anyone else, you don't care that we've made the most meters, you don't care that you are statistically wrong when it comes to Englands ability to beat Italy, you don't care that the players are in good form, you don't even care about what the bloody England team is! All you want to do is keep up the tired old stereotype that England offer little beyond forwards rugby and your desperation to see Italy beat them.

You want to be treated differently? Grow up and stop crying every time you are called out on your drivel. For someone who accuses everyone else of being rude and intolerant, you are being quite the hypocrite. Your points are the things being attacked (the hint there is that it was statistics that were posted) whilst you are straight into personal attacks with no attempt at a rebuttal beyond saying you actually don't care about any of the evidence.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What a load of tripe. Let's look at the stats shall we?

Average points scored in Eng-Ita games:
England: 39.1
Italy: 12.5

Australia games:
Australia: 35.3
Italy: 13.6

Highest points scored against Italy:
England: 80
Australia: 69

Highest points difference:
England: 60
Australia: 49

Both unbeaten vs Italy. By every metric in the history of rugby between these 2 sides and Italy, England have been better. The only thing the Aussies have in their favour are the recent results. You done talking ******** about England being something Italy can handle whilst Australia are their kryptonite?

 

[Big Ewis]

yeah, ya like that one ?? ehhh, guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore at this point...
Anyways, back onto the plot: Italy England.
And I'll really, really try to make it pro-England and not pro-Italy this time.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

yeah, ya like that one ?? ehhh, guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore at this point...
Anyways, back onto the plot: Italy England.
And I'll really, really try to make it pro-England and not pro-Italy this time.

 

[Big Ewis]

:lol:
black people....

 

[goodNumber10]

Can you believe I can't comfortably come in here and say: "hmmm...I think Italy have a problem with handling fast attacks SH style, and England may not provide that and maybe if Italy contain their forwards and play with passion they've got a shot". I get historical stats thrown at me, some downright bizarre England vs Australia reply...

Mate, that's not really what you were saying though was it? And really, no one is doing anything that you haven't done already on the thread, you were dismissing everyone elses comments as un-knowledgeable and presenting your own as fact not as opinion and that's why you got called out on it. And no one is saying England will score 50 points, they are saying that England have come no a lot since november after beating an Australian side that went on and spanked Ireland and Italy.

So you surely have to understand that using actual facts to point out that your observation and comments are maybe not the most objective was always going to be funny to everyone else and that’s why people laughed/gloated/posted a hilarious rap song in response.

I think there is a lot of sense in what you’re saying, and a lot I don’t’ necessarily disagree with, I do think you get a bit of unfair grief on here, but I do also think that you are quite unobjective about the England side (but then you’re French and I would expect nothing less )


Essentially why are you're observations and opinions more profound than anyone elses?

 

[Maverick1987]

Big Ewis you are really making it hard to not get ****** off with you . You have waded into this thread that isn't even about your country just to provoke people . You know extremely little about English rugby yet make yourself out to be an expert

I made one mistake about Castro before remembering he broke a few ribs against Ireland and you make it out like I'm ill informed about everything . Best thing you can do is go back the France thread and chat with the other frenchies about your dysfunctional team ......

 

[Tony Manx]

.....................the France thread and chat with the other frenchies about your dysfunctional team ......

I beg your very pardon......I am not even remotely French by blood but by choice I do have a love of most all things French (outside of Paris of course) and enjoy talking about rugby matters French.......you are not being racist I feel sure!!!

 

[Maverick1987]

I beg your very pardon......I am not even remotely French by blood but by choice I do have a love of most all things French (outside of Paris of course) and enjoy talking about rugby matters French.......you are not being racist I feel sure!!!

I wasn't being racist they have a dysfunctional team and he's on the wrong thread

 

[TheSaffycen]

I don't want to sound like I'm picking on you Ewis because I agree that if you play quick clinical rugby you are very likely to win, also it's much better to watch. But you with the point that Italy like to play forwards rugby and that their cryptonite is running rugby, the only sides that they have never beaten are New Zealand, Australia, England and South Africa. Now both South Africa and England are forward orientated teams, though both are now expanding that, and combined have played Italy a total of 30 times. 30 times and Italy have not managed to get even a single draw. Argentina I would say is a team that revolves around its pack and Italy have played them 19 times losing 13 of them. Now I would say that looking at these stats that they do have some relevance as the Italian pack is not as strong as it once was and even then they use to get beaten by other teams who play a forwards game. So what I am trying to say is in short, this pack is one of the better England packs and if Italy tried to contain our pack that we would still win IMO.

By the way all the stats are from Wiki so God knows if they are correct.

 

[Tony Manx]

I wasn't being racist .....

I know that no worries!!!!

 

[Maverick1987]

I know that no worries!!!!

Where about are you from in the Isle of Man ? I've been there a few times for the TT it's class ! Went for 17 days for my 21st birthday

 

[Tony Manx]

Derbyhaven now bu Douglas and Onchan previously! Most everyone that has been here has been for the TT or camping with the scouts or dragged across by their parents reliving their youth here!!!

Have to say the TT is like the Theatre to Londoners......they would miss it if it were not here but never go!!! Used to work in my youth in the catering at the grandstand and met all the main players of the time but lost interest and now tend not to be here although it is a huge party time in Douglas!!

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't want to sound like I'm picking on you Ewis because I agree that if you play quick clinical rugby you are very likely to win, also it's much better to watch. But you with the point that Italy like to play forwards rugby and that their cryptonite is running rugby, the only sides that they have never beaten are New Zealand, Australia, England and South Africa. Now both South Africa and England are forward orientated teams, though both are now expanding that, and combined have played Italy a total of 30 times. 30 times and Italy have not managed to get even a single draw. Argentina I would say is a team that revolves around its pack and Italy have played them 19 times losing 13 of them. Now I would say that looking at these stats that they do have some relevance as the Italian pack is not as strong as it once was and even then they use to get beaten by other teams who play a forwards game. So what I am trying to say is in short, this pack is one of the better England packs and if Italy tried to contain our pack that we would still win IMO.

By the way all the stats are from Wiki so God knows if they are correct.

My post was never about history. I was talking about the current Italy, 2013-2014. I was bringing forth the fact that they've struggled with fast and fluid opposing attacks.
I didn't say "Italy don't like fast attacks and will beat the English pack". I'm saying if they have a chance it would be to contain the English up front, because as we all know here (hopefully...) Italy have been a forward oriented side for years now. Grindy, physical, confrontational...and then the fact that England aren't the most flamboyant and creative team offensively works to Italy's advantage.

And that right there got me the childish, disrespectful and sometimes insulting circus of replies one can have a calm look at whenever he likes on this thread.
I don't see myself getting angry and gang up with a self-righteous tone on some foreign user if he merely wants to say my nation has had issues, especially if it's in full pertinence with the thread he posts it in. I'm first and foremost discussing Italy's chances of winning this, as microscopic as they might be.

I can't repeat this enough; because I constantly get a plethora of examples each day it seems on here; but the susceptibility/touchiness of some users is unlike anything I've dealt with in a long time. I really didn't see it coming.
The fact is I've unintentionally triggered the English sense of blind pride, and that's that. Nothing reprehensible or disrespectful in my posts (except against ranger).

Big Ewis you are really making it hard to not get ****** off with you . You have waded into this thread that isn't even about your country just to provoke people . You know extremely little about English rugby yet make yourself out to be an expert

I made one mistake about Castro before remembering he broke a few ribs against Ireland and you make it out like I'm ill informed about everything . Best thing you can do is go back the France thread and chat with the other frenchies about your dysfunctional team ......

An example of what I'm saying in all its glory. Someone please read my posts - Italy can beat England if...maybe they contain their forwards and stop Brown/May at the root - and read what Maverick is saying here. I'm "really making it hard to not get hated". I'm posting in a thread "that isn't even about my country" and I'm "just provoking people". I "make myself out to be an expert (of English rugby)".

Where. The hell. Does all that.... Come from ??
Pure fiction...interesting stuff to read.

The quicker we can get back to discussing this match; which I was doing, mind you; the better.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

By the way all the stats are from Wiki so God knows if they are correct.

Wikipedia isn't that unreliable. I'm pretty sure someone hasn't been going onto the wiki page and fudging the numbers for games Italy has played. Generally it's only ever had problems when it comes to controversial issues and even then it isn't that bad.

Also Ewis it is rage rancher, no "ranger" there. Secondly I've attacked your points and backed it up with the stats to show that Australia are no more Italy's kryptonite than England. Lastly, you're being a massive hypocrite in saying others are getting touchy when you have launched a full blown personal attack on me for me pointing out that your claims were a load of rubbish. Get a grip.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I never said Italy's pack had all those qualities lol, I'm just saying their pack will be able to contain the English forwards enough that they won't be dominated the whole game. Italy fear a creative ball-in-hand game, not a big battle up front. They've got roughness there as well.

I was just using your words when you say they will be able to contain the England pack. And I then say that this Italy pack is not as good as previous ones and based on past results against us when we had a less able pack we still beat them. And then I was adding in South Africa and Argentina's results because they don't have a good record against forward based teams. I personally feel we have a better pack as a whole than the Italians.

I understand that you are looking at it in terms of trying to make the game more interesting by saying that this team has these qualities and can implement them in this way so they might win this way. Honestly the only way I see Italy winning if Allan kicks everything and we just can't get through their defence.

 

[Big Ewis]

I personally feel we have a better pack as a whole than the Italians.

I understand that you are looking at it in terms of trying to make the game more interesting by saying that this team has these qualities and can implement them in this way so they might win this way. Honestly the only way I see Italy winning if Allan kicks everything and we just can't get through their defence.

nothing in my posts contradicts that. In fact I agree, it's just a reality. Who the hell would question that ??...
I don't even understand how it comes to you having to emphasize that point. I'm saying *Italy will have a hard time containing England up front, but can hope for a good result there as they are a forward-oriented team themselves, if they play out of their socks*.

God !!...

 

[TheSaffycen]

Well I am just saying what I think, you just come up with a point someone contest it and then you say *what I'm actually saying* and then act as if I'm being ridiculous that I put what I mean. Instead of just making comments based on no real sustenance, say what you mean and stop just changing what you said when someone points it out too be wrong. I try to get the discussion back onto the match,

The quicker we can get back to discussing this match; which I was doing, mind you; the better.

and instead of talking about it you just go to say how stupid it is to point out England have a better pack than Italy when we are talking about the match.