2014 6 Nations: Italy vs England (Round 5)

[TheSaffycen]

Hi im new to the forum but I have been reading the comments for a little while. Right back to the topic of discussion.
Optimistically if we score an early try and make them chase the game. Hopefully they dont keep their heads and do the stupid things, like not keeping it with the forwards and take points when they're on offer. Then we have players like Brown, May and Burrell who can exploit gaps in the defence. I must say i think we can contain Italy's attack pretty easily. Being honest though we need france to turn up and beat ireland.

 

[goodNumber10]

Saying they've regressed just shows one hasn't paid attention to them at all. France's ability to stun opponents with consecutive tries closely sequenced wasn't exclusive to their game against Italy, and Ireland were just in a momentum one could call "in the zone".

What on earth are yout alking about?

They lost - 46-7 to Ireland, there fourth worst result against Ireland ever.

They then also lost 30-10 to a miss firing France, and got turned over by a p*sh wales and you're trying to swing that as playing well?

The one game they should have been confident of winning at home scotland they lost, and are on for the wooden spoon when last year they managed to avoid it.

They've played bravely, but they've not progressed...and if anything i can see them making a bit of a decline over the next few years as stars like Parisse and Castro start to get older and fall off the pace.

I'm not comparing England to Australia or their style of play, i'm pointing out we beat Australia, who then pumped Italy and that we have progressed drastically since we beat Australia, wheras Italy have not.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Welcome to the forum.

But no. Imagine a miracle scenario where we win by 50 points away from home. Ireland play after us, so they'd know they only needed to win by 2 points in order to claim the championship. They will know what they need to do to win.

In any case, a win by more than 25 strikes me as very unlikely given the setting.
We should concentrate on winning and hope that Ireland slip up.

 

[goodNumber10]

Welcome to the forum.

But no. Imagine a miracle scenario where we win by 50 points away from home. Ireland play after us, so they'd know they only needed to win by 2 points in order to claim the championship. They will know what they need to do to win.

In any case, a win by more than 25 strikes me as very unlikely given the setting.
We should concentrate on winning and hope that Ireland slip up.

agreed, but i still think it could be a bit of a whooping!


also welcome to you saffycen

 

[TheSaffycen]

Cheers for the warm welcome.
Anyway i would like to know peoples opinions if you're the captain are you going for post or corner ? Me personally I would go for the corner and try and get as many points as possible. You just cant depend on the french to win.

 

[SuperEagle]

Might they bring Tuilagi on for Brown - put him on the right wing and see what Nowell is like at FB?

Unlikely... but would be interesting.

Why on earth would England want to do that out of choice?

Have we learned nothing these last few years?

When you have quality players, you shouldn't play them out of position (Brown on the wing? Wood at No 8?).

Tuilagi comes on at centre, Brown stays at FB and Nowell stays on the wing.

Simple.

 

[goodNumber10]

Cheers for the warm welcome.
Anyway i would like to know peoples opinions if you're the captain are you going for post or corner ? Me personally I would go for the corner and try and get as many points as possible. You just cant depend on the french to win.

Depends on the game really, get the win first... so i'd kick everything in the first 20-30 minutes regardless of if we're scoring trys or not... make sure we're up and secure the victory then if we can get 15-20 points up i'd play the corner everytime.

 

[Big Ewis]

What on earth are yout alking about?

They lost - 46-7 to Ireland, there fourth worst result against Ireland ever.

They then also lost 30-10 to a miss firing France, and got turned over by a p*sh wales and you're trying to swing that as playing well?

The one game they should have been confident of winning at home scotland they lost, and are on for the wooden spoon when last year they managed to avoid it.

They've played bravely, but they've not progressed...and if anything i can see them making a bit of a decline over the next few years as stars like Parisse and Castro start to get older and fall off the pace.

I'm not comparing England to Australia or their style of play, i'm pointing out we beat Australia, who then pumped Italy and that we have progressed drastically since we beat Australia, wheras Italy have not.

I know you're not comparing England to Australia, I wasn't either. I was making the point that Australia are part of Italy's cryptonite sides, the running/stepping aspect, which England doesn't have much of, and which if not contained properly can achieve ridiculous inflated scores. Fifty in fact.

Also they lost in Ireland to a rampant side, which reached a record number in passing that got more and more confident and momentum as the game progressed. And it was in Dublin, a place Wales recently got dismantled. Italy took 50 from Australia at home and had almost nothing to show that entire tour. If you've actually watched all 3 those games, and then watched all their games this year in the 2014 6N, you'd see the difference. Their result in Wales was a fine one and the Italy Scotland game was actually an entertaining, fairly good level match, which Italy lost at the last minute, literally.

As for Parisse and Castro and Ghiraldini leaving soon, that's irrelevant to the point we're both discussing atm. They've looked better this year than in a while since their last 6N.

 

[Tony Manx]

So....I forget who but someone mentioned that the Italians had rested their players against Ireland to be fresh for this match!

Seems they were absolutely right (irony chaps!!) with Parisse coming back to make a difference and then only changes to the two props who will make no difference!!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I know you're not comparing England to Australia, I wasn't either. I was making the point that Australia are part of Italy's cryptonite sides, the running/stepping aspect, which England doesn't have much of, and which if not contained properly can achieve ridiculous inflated scores. Fifty in fact.

Also they lost in Ireland to a rampant side, which reached a record number in passing that got more and more confident and momentum as the game progressed. And it was in Dublin, a place Wales recently got dismantled. Italy took 50 from Australia at home and had almost nothing to show that entire tour. If you've actually watched all 3 those games, and then watched all their games this year in the 2014 6N, you'd see the difference. Their result in Wales was a fine one and the Italy Scotland game was actually an entertaining, fairly good level match, which Italy lost at the last minute, literally.

As for Parisse and Castro and Ghiraldini leaving soon, that's irrelevant to the point we're both discussing atm. They've looked better this year than in a while since their last 6N.

What a load of tripe. Let's look at the stats shall we?

Average points scored in Eng-Ita games:
England: 39.1
Italy: 12.5

Australia games:
Australia: 35.3
Italy: 13.6

Highest points scored against Italy:
England: 80
Australia: 69

Highest points difference:
England: 60
Australia: 49

Both unbeaten vs Italy. By every metric in the history of rugby between these 2 sides and Italy, England have been better. The only thing the Aussies have in their favour are the recent results. You done talking ******** about England being something Italy can handle whilst Australia are their kryptonite?

 

[Crapspray]

Owned.

 

[Maverick1987]

What a load of tripe. Let's look at the stats shall we?

Average points scored in Eng-Ita games:
England: 39.1
Italy: 12.5

Australia games:
Australia: 35.3
Italy: 13.6

Highest points scored against Italy:
England: 80
Australia: 69

Highest points difference:
England: 60
Australia: 49

Both unbeaten vs Italy. By every metric in the history of rugby between these 2 sides and Italy, England have been better. The only thing the Aussies have in their favour are the recent results. You done talking ******** about England being something Italy can handle whilst Australia are their kryptonite?

Nicely done sir, nicely done

 

[goodNumber10]

What a load of tripe. Let's look at the stats shall we?

Average points scored in Eng-Ita games:
England: 39.1
Italy: 12.5

Australia games:
Australia: 35.3
Italy: 13.6

Highest points scored against Italy:
England: 80
Australia: 69

Highest points difference:
England: 60
Australia: 49

Both unbeaten vs Italy. By every metric in the history of rugby between these 2 sides and Italy, England have been better. The only thing the Aussies have in their favour are the recent results. You done talking ******** about England being something Italy can handle whilst Australia are their kryptonite?

[video=youtube_share;ffCEr327W44]http://youtu.be/ffCEr327W44[/video]

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

wow

 

[Tony Manx]

As I know, there are many trades and professions where, when everything is going well, the Father is nowhere near the birth of their children and one wonders why, as a well paid sportsmen and member of a "team", one feels it necessary to let your employers and co-workers down just to be there...servicemen and many other employees do not and one wonders what he can do unless he is a qualified doctor anyway.............maybe it is just my age! Would not like to be in his shoes looking back at my decision if he is not there and Vunipola plays like he usually does in the scrum and Ireland lose...........................!! I would qualify that obviously if there is any sort of a problem affecting child or wife...............

 

[goodNumber10]

i think comparing the services to someone playing a sport is bit of a long shot mate.

it's better to let him go and be with his family, instead of worrying about it.. and it's law to let him go so....

 

[Tony Manx]

I know I am a prehistoric..................but they are employed just like servicemen.............BUT this is 2014!!!!

I dropped my wife off at 04.30 (mainly because Agostini was about to go past the house at 150 mph in practice for the TT), and returned at 17.20 when she had given birth and managed a 14 hour day before going on the razz and still being at work at 07.00 the next morning but that was a few years back as the teenage grandchildren would tell you!!!

 

[j'nuh]

This is indeed another time. No way would I miss the birth of my hypothetical child over a game.

If I'm needed to operate on a guy and I'm the only person in the world that can save them? If I'm halfway through detonating a bomb that will level a city? Yeah, I'd stick around.

But family is more important than rugby/making your employer happy.

 

[Big Ewis]

I was smiling as I was reading ranger's post in how irrelevant it was to what I'm saying. Moreover, I'm amazed at how England fans on here are looking at this. For someone who hasn't read the conversation and just reads the reaction to my last post, it looks like I've insulted England pretty badly and someone has risen to challenge and smite down the enforcer. "Owned". "Nicely done sir, nicely done". Some YouTube clip called "Whoomp".
The susceptibility is amazing here, I know you don't see it, for you are the subjects, but this time in particular I'm a bit in awe. AGAIN, to be clear as if this needed clarity: I'm just saying having observed Italy and ACTUALLY WATCHED EVERY GAME THEY PLAYED THIS YEAR, myself, I can tell they struggle with teams who offer quickness of execution on attack. They're too slow to keep up and easily overtaken.

Of course the English posters here take this as an outrage, are highly offended and touched by the concept that Australia should put 50 on Italy and England couldn't, the idea that Italy could potentially beat England, and ultimately I've felt a big complex with the attack. I didn't think I'd spawn such a brood of agitated responses, as it's not my goal anyways, but I sure did. ranger's post is absolutely pathetic to say things as they are, the most childish thing I've seen lately.

Why the fk should I care England put 80 on them in their second year in the tournament ? What the fk do I care the historical average of this and that ? :lol: I'm talking about Italy in 2013-2014 you poor incompetent moron, I don't care what your complexes are or that you get angry when I state my mere observations. There's nothing in my post that deserves insulting and disrespecting, or anything close. And you guys are silly for following him, but you're cool otherwise.

Can you believe I can't comfortably come in here and say: "hmmm...I think Italy have a problem with handling fast attacks SH style, and England may not provide that and maybe if Italy contain their forwards and play with passion they've got a shot". I get historical stats thrown at me, some downright bizarre England vs Australia reply...

fu-cking pa-the-tic.

Alright fine: England will likely crush Italy and cannot resist their forwards and England are better at beating Italy than Australia historically.

 

[j'nuh]

Ewis, you may have had a point about England not having a team that can run/step the ball in the past, but have you been watching this tournament? Brown is in the form of his life, stepping everyone, and well on his way to being named man of the tournament. May and Nowell are also making up a back three that I've seen labelled "the most dangerous back three in the tournament". For all of May's criticisms, a lack of defenders beaten isn't one of them. Burrell has been very impressive too in that respect. We have potentially the most mobile second row of any nation in the world now, with Lawes replacing Parling. Care is a big step up from Youngs and Dickson. Farrell is getting better by the week, and him and Twelvetrees are orchestrating everything. Then you have the likes of Tuilagi and Ford on the bench...

You'd have to be holding to some pretty steadfast prejudices if you think England can't attack. Like Australia? Maybe not. But we can heap the pressure in the way Australia would struggle, and defend probably more ferociously too.