[2013 EOYT] South Africa

[Big Ewis]

We apologize for playing bad against Scotland historically. Will will attempt to play them of the park in November.
Please stand by

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]17 November 2013
[/TD]
[TD]Murrayfield, Edinburgh [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]–[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2013 Autumn International[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15 June 2013[/TD]
[TD]Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30 – 17[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]South African Quadrangular tournament[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17 November 2012[/TD]
[TD]Murrayfield, Edinburgh
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10 – 21[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2012 Autumn International[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20 November 2010[/TD]
[TD]Murrayfield, Edinburgh [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21 – 17[/TD]
[TD]

Scotland[/TD]
[TD]2010 Grand Slam Tour
(South Africa defeated Ireland, Wales and England, lost to Scotland)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15 November 2008[/TD]
[TD]Murrayfield, Edinburgh [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10 – 14[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2008 Autumn International
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody> [/TABLE]


It's true though the recent results, dating back to 2008, have been surprising between Scotland and South Africa; I'd almost say in Scotland's favor, relatively.
Considering South Africa's the all-time no.2 in the world, and Scotland's been on a decline the whole decade basically, one would imagine much larger scores for SA, and certainly not a single defeat these past 5-6 years.
Those are all tight scores, even the latest 30-17 in the quadrangular last summer which was much, much closer than the score shows if you've actually seen it: still 23-17 at the 74th minute before a conv. try at the 79th.
I found that result really, really impressive from Scotland considering they got pushed around up front and even conceded a pen.try.

Perhaps recent historical trends will linger between the two nations and this may be another tight affair. It would be a huge upset if Scotland somehow managed to win this, but I wouldn't put money on that, not even 10 bucks.

 

[TRF_heineken]

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]17 November 2013
[/TD]
[TD]Murrayfield, Edinburgh [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]–[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2013 Autumn International[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15 June 2013[/TD]
[TD]Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30 – 17[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]South African Quadrangular tournament[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17 November 2012[/TD]
[TD]Murrayfield, Edinburgh
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10 – 21[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2012 Autumn International[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20 November 2010[/TD]
[TD]Murrayfield, Edinburgh [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21 – 17[/TD]
[TD]

Scotland[/TD]
[TD]2010 Grand Slam Tour
(South Africa defeated Ireland, Wales and England, lost to Scotland)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15 November 2008[/TD]
[TD]Murrayfield, Edinburgh [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10 – 14[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2008 Autumn International
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody> [/TABLE]


It's true though the recent results, dating back to 2008, have been surprising between Scotland and South Africa; I'd almost say in Scotland's favor, relatively.
Considering South Africa's the all-time no.2 in the world, and Scotland's been on a decline the whole decade basically, one would imagine much larger scores for SA, and certainly not a single defeat these past 5-6 years.
Those are all tight scores, even the latest 30-17 in the quadrangular last summer which was much, much closer than the score shows if you've actually seen it: still 23-17 at the 74th minute before a conv. try at the 79th.
I found that result really, really impressive from Scotland considering they got pushed around up front and even conceded a pen.try.

Perhaps recent historical trends will linger between the two nations and this may be another tight affair. It would be a huge upset if Scotland somehow managed to win this, but I wouldn't put money on that, not even 10 bucks.

And then France in France is another big problem for us.

The last SA coach that won there against France was Nick Mallet in 1998. After him no bok team has won in France against France.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

^^^

And. And. And; Wales at home is another tough one where the scores have been extremely tight f late and that's why I said this is a tricky tour for SA before I got side tracked by the weather and (spoiler alert; sarcasm following) how **** SA actually is at rugby.

If HM stears us though unscathed I'll be thoroughly impressed even though we as the SA public almost expect it and certainly demand it. A tough gig but we're not gonna improve if that sort of pressure isn't there.

 

[psychic duck]

SA did play bad, yes. I would call that a factor as well. Whether due to complacency, rotation, a new squad, bad weather, fatigue, lack of focus etc etc. You'll call them all excuses and I'll call them all factors in the loss when I try to dissect for myself what went wrong and why. I agree that SA should be beating Scotland without much trouble but the results seem to suggest otherwise which is why I call it a banana peel. BUT that said I expect us to win comfortably this year even if the weather should be bad because some of the other excuses are out of the way; I refer to a greater unity in our sqaud that wasn;t there earlier. I see we have another French ref though LOL. And I doubt we'll be complacent again.

I don't understand what exactly you mean with the highlighted bit there. So we are just crap; full stop? The struggle? You mean the struggle at the rucks? Where Scotland were entering from the side, going off their feet, hands in the ruck and not releasing or rolling away and getting away with it while we weren't savvy enough to try the same? This June or last year June? Sorry, I think it is a case of English being both of our's 2nd language.

Nope, it's obvious South Africa aren't a bad side full stop. But their most recent performances against Scotland have been. Especially the most recent one with Scotland understrength and away from home.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Nope, it's obvious South Africa aren't a bad side full stop. But their most recent performances against Scotland have been. Especially the most recent one with Scotland understrength and away from home.

a few things that wasn't taken into contention was the following:

It was the first time any of the teams played at the Mbombela Stadium - Which was built for the 2010 Fifa World Cup.
Siya Kolisi came on very early in that match when Arno Botha got injured - it was Kolisi's debut
A few players like Willie Le Roux, JJ Engelbrecht, Jano Vermaak, And Jan Serfontein had only played 1 or 2 games before that game, Whether it wasn't necesarily understrength, it was certainly a new team...

 

[Big Ewis]

And then France in France is another big problem for us.

The last SA coach that won there against France was Nick Mallet in 1998. After him no bok team has won in France against France.

yeh well, any humble fan always fears the worst from his perspective. SA fans will feel "yeh, it's France, they might actually beat us !" and we're thinking "Boks just had one damn good tournament, and besides the All-Mighty there is no better team...they're probably going to beat us".


More rationally though:
* there's a chance France finally makes the Rugby world say: "oh, alright, so that's what they're really capable of...I mean, yeh, just look at that roster on paper...not that surprising...". And all of a sudden SA looks like a very good team, but with flaws on defense and a limited offensive set.
* or SA prove that yeh, that right there is the difference betw. SH and NH, and France still look like they're searching for themselves and can't channel their potential adequately, and we get a nice big 30 or more dropped on us and we barely manage a try or none at all....

 

[Gena_ZA]

SA will beat you handsomely this time around and France will have a crisis again and fire the coach and management. Talks about the gap in Northern Hemisphere rugby will deepen and the Euro loses market share. Clubs will be blamed and foreign players targeted by local fans
Next year you will take 6 Nations and believe all is good again, till the next loss

I saved you some agony, now go and sail around the world

 

[Big Ewis]

SA will beat you handsomely this time around and France will have a crisis again and fire the coach and management. Talks about the gap in Northern Hemisphere rugby will deepen and the Euro loses market share. Clubs will be blamed and foreign players targeted by local fans
Next year you will take 6 Nations and believe all is good again, till the next loss

I saved you some agony, now go and sail around the world

that sounds awfully possible...SHUT UP !!!!

mehh....we'll see though Saffa, we'll see...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I see the smack talk has already started and this is not even the match thread LOL. I like it.

 

[Big Ewis]

I see the smack talk has already started and this is not even the match thread LOL. I like it.

hehe yeh, good point !

Anyways I've said all that can be said so far I think about France. Psyche is a big part of the game, and sometimes can be literally everything - especially for the froggies. No one can give a categorical, straight answer as to what will take place in Paris on that day...
it is interesting however to note SA hasn't won in France in a while, even though they were backed to take it in 2009 when they were on crazy form. Here are some of the latest results between our countries:

[h=2]Results[/h] [TABLE="class: wikitable"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH]Date[/TH]
[TH]Venue[/TH]
[TH]Score[/TH]
[TH]Victor[/TH]
[TH]Comments[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23 November 2013[/TD]
[TD]Stade de France, Saint-Denis, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]–[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2013 end-of-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12 June 2010[/TD]
[TD]Newlands, Cape Town, South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]42 – 17[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD]2010 mid-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13 November 2009[/TD]
[TD]Stadium Municipal, Toulouse, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 – 13[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD]2009 end of year rugby union tests[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]24 June 2006[/TD]
[TD]Newlands, Cape Town[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26 – 36[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD]2006 mid-year test[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25 November 2005[/TD]
[TD]Stade de France, Saint-Denis, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26 – 20[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD]2005 Autumn International[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25 June 2005[/TD]
[TD]Boet Erasmus Stadium, Port Elizabeth, South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27 – 13[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18 June 2005[/TD]
[TD]ABSA Stadium, Durban, South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30 – 30[/TD]
[TD] draw[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9 November 2002[/TD]
[TD]Stade Vélodrome, Marseille, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30 – 10[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10 November 2001[/TD]
[TD]Stade de France, Saint-Denis[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 – 10[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23 June 2001[/TD]
[TD]Kings Park Stadium, Durban[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 – 15[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16 June 2001[/TD]
[TD]Ellis Park, Johannesburg, South Africa[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23 – 32[/TD]
[TD]

France[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22 November 1997[/TD]
[TD]Parc des Princes, Paris, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10 – 52[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15 November 1997[/TD]
[TD]Stade de Gerland, Lyon, France[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]32 – 36[/TD]
[TD]

South Africa[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


Hoping the result won't look too much like 1997 Test 2 !...

 

[Gena_ZA]

Was in 97 that Slaptjips [french fries] (Pieter Rossouw) scored those 4 tries, what a game that was for the Boks

 

[Big Ewis]

Was in 97 that Slaptjips [french fries] (Pieter Rossouw) scored those 4 tries, what a game that was for the Boks

yeh yeh, whatever man, nobody cares !!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Was in 97 that Slaptjips [french fries] (Pieter Rossouw) scored those 4 tries, what a game that was for the Boks

Such a deceptive runner! It used to look like he lifted his legs and the ground would fly under his feet. He looked so lazy while running that one just could not conceive of him as moving fast.

Him, Chester and Monty was some back three for WP!! (edit: I meant Breyton Paulse instead of Chester Williams but still... there was some overlap with Chessie as well)

Does anyone know about when the Bok squad will be announced? I would assume after the Currie Cup final again?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Such a deceptive runner! It used to look like he lifted his legs and the ground would fly under his feet. He looked so lazy while running that one just could not conceive of him as moving fast.

Him, Chester and Monty was some back three for WP!! (edit: I meant Breyton Paulse instead of Chester Williams but still... there was some overlap with Chessie as well)

Does anyone know about when the Bok squad will be announced? I would assume after the Currie Cup final again?

I think so too... Slappies and JP Pietersen has much the same running style. Speaking of JP, he is available for the EOYT...

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Yes. JPP will return to the Sharks next month when the TOP League season ends.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Hmmm, is it really worth speculating on a squad or starting 23?.?... probably not but I am bored.. not that I don't have work mind you.

I'd like to see for against Wales:

*I am assuming that these guys will be available as well and will be keen on a return to SA..

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Coenie Oosthuizen
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Pieter-Steph du Toit (why not just throw him in when he is surrounded by experience in the pack!!?)
6 Francois Louw
7 Willem Alberts should be fit by then I assume? Otherwise bring in Schalk Burger or if he is fit Arno Botha
8 Duane Vermeulen
9 Fourie du Preez*
10 Pat Lambie
11 Bryan Habana
12 Jean de Villliers
13 Jaque Fourie*
14 JP Pietersen
15 Willie le Roux has shown he can cut it on the wing (though has to work on his D) but we need to develop options at 15 and see what sticks as I'm sure we can improve

16 Guthro Steenkamp
17 Adriaan Strauss (with Schalk Brits in the extended squad)
18 Paul Willemse because who doesn't want a 135kg monster on the bench to impact the scrum and run over tired opponents in the last 20?
19 Schalk Burger / Siya Kolisi / Arno Botha / oh, there are so many other options that would be nice but we only have so much space..
20 Jano Vermaak because not Pienaar..
21 Johan Goosen because I'd like to see Lambie get a few starts and ease Goosen back from injury unlike the Cheetahs
22 Taute if fit otherwise Serfontein / Engelbrecht (both of whom I'd start against Scotland though possibly 12Serf, 13JdV, 14Engelbrecht)
23 Lourens Adriaanse to replace JdP with Frans Malherbe in the extended squad

 

[TRF_heineken]

Hmmm, is it really worth speculating on a squad or starting 23?.?... probably not but I am bored.. not that I don't have work mind you.

I'd like to see for against Wales:

*I am assuming that these guys will be available as well and will be keen on a return to SA..

1 Tendai Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Coenie Oosthuizen
4 Eben Etzebeth
5 Pieter-Steph du Toit (why not just throw him in when he is surrounded by experience in the pack!!?)
6 Francois Louw
7 Willem Alberts should be fit by then I assume? Otherwise bring in Schalk Burger or if he is fit Arno Botha
8 Duane Vermeulen
9 Fourie du Preez*
10 Pat Lambie
11 Bryan Habana
12 Jean de Villliers
13 Jaque Fourie*
14 JP Pietersen
15 Willie le Roux has shown he can cut it on the wing (though has to work on his D) but we need to develop options at 15 and see what sticks as I'm sure we can improve

16 Guthro Steenkamp
17 Adriaan Strauss (with Schalk Brits in the extended squad)
18 Paul Willemse because who doesn't want a 135kg monster on the bench to impact the scrum and run over tired opponents in the last 20?
19 Schalk Burger / Siya Kolisi / Arno Botha / oh, there are so many other options that would be nice but we only have so much space..
20 Jano Vermaak because not Pienaar..
21 Johan Goosen because I'd like to see Lambie get a few starts and ease Goosen back from injury unlike the Cheetahs
22 Taute if fit otherwise Serfontein / Engelbrecht (both of whom I'd start against Scotland though possibly 12Serf, 13JdV, 14Engelbrecht)
23 Lourens Adriaanse to replace JdP with Frans Malherbe in the extended squad

I can't find much fault in your team.

My team would look like this:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
3. Louwrens Adriaanse
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. PSDT
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts (if fit) otherwise Schalk Burger
8. Duane Vermeulen

9. FdP
10 Johan Goosen
11. Willie le Roux (I assume Habana won't be fit by then)
12. JDV
13. JJ Englebrecht
14. JPP
15. Pat Lambie

16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Marcell van Der Merwe
18. Coenie Oosthuizen
19. Paul Willemse
20. Siya Kolisi
21. Jano Vermaak
22. Jan Serfontein
23. Jaque Fourie

24. Piet van Zyl
25. Arno Botha / Marcell Coetzee
26. Raymond Rhule
27. Jannie Du Plessis
28. Deon Fourie
29. Damian De Allende
30. Franco van Der Merwe

I think HM should just broaden the net a little bit more... and I think he should give youngsters like Jan Serfontein a bit more game time.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Interesting to see that SA has a couple of "super-heavy" guys too (Williamse, Oosthuizen).

It seems that most countries seem to have 1 or 2 guys who are 125-135kg coming through in their early 20s.
There are going to be some very large forward packs in the next 5 years!

Out of those guys you've listed is there anyone who you think is going to come through a bit like Eben has?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Interesting to see that SA has a couple of "super-heavy" guys too (Williamse, Oosthuizen).

It seems that most countries seem to have 1 or 2 guys who are 125-135kg coming through in their early 20s.
There are going to be some very large forward packs in the next 5 years!

Out of those guys you've listed is there anyone who you think is going to come through a bit like Eben has?

Pieter-Steph du Toit has been a prospect ever since Etzebeth made the step up from Baby Boks to the Bok team. However, Du Toit suffered some bad injuries which had him sidelined every time Meyer wanted to select him. This EoYT will be his time to show why he is so highly touted.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Interesting to see that SA has a couple of "super-heavy" guys too (Williamse, Oosthuizen).

It seems that most countries seem to have 1 or 2 guys who are 125-135kg coming through in their early 20s.
There are going to be some very large forward packs in the next 5 years!

Out of those guys you've listed is there anyone who you think is going to come through a bit like Eben has?

Impact-wise? It's difficult to say really... Eben has been a phenomenon few expected.

But players that I have been keeping an eye on is:
Marcell van der Merwe - A burly prop, can play both sides and is a strong carrier. He was with the Cheetahs and then got a bad injury, then moved to the Bulls, and has been a real revelation for me as he had to cover both sides of the scrum as we still play with only 22 player-teams in the CC.

Pieter Steph Du Toit - Everybody is ranting about this oke. It's just a matter of time before he and Eben becomes the lock pair the Boks want.

Jan Serfontein - he is just class.

Damian De Allende - JDV successor at WP. This guy is a monster! his big, powerful and fast!

Actually, there are a bunch of guys I and my fellow saffas could name, that could make a huge impact, but it's hard to say, especially with the new generation as they have only been playing Currie Cup...