[2013 EOYT] Ireland

[Peat]

Second test against the All Blacks last summer brew. A lot of the good work Heaslip and O'Brien do is enabled by Locky.

I did undersell him somewhat there by not explaining myself sufficiently.

He is an intelligent, gifted grafter who will provide a platform for more talented players to shine and he can do that up to a very high level, possibly even international level consistently (not proven yet). He would not be a bad call and there's a fair argument to be made for him - he's show what he can do with O'Brien and Heaslip a lot, including the NZ match. He will never be a standout player though - he will have standout performances, but he will never be at O'Brien's level. If you play him, his time will always be limited, as sooner or later a more exceptional player will take his place. But that is not necessarily a bad thing, and its true of a lot of the options. I don't think any reasonable rugby fan would complain if he played.

 

[Feicarsinn]

La Squadra:


Backs
Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster)
Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92)


Forwards
Stephen Archer (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
James Coughlan (Dolphin/Munster)*
Tom Court (Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)*
Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

 

[Peat]

Pretty odd squad if you ask me.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

What's the deal with the monster from Ulster Stephen Ferris; haven't seen or heard anything about him since the back end of last year? I can see he's not in the squad for this November.

 

[Peat]

What's the deal with the monster from Ulster Stephen Ferris; haven't seen or heard anything about him since the back end of last year? I can see he's not in the squad for this November.

Long term injury, been some doubt over whether he'll ever play again - and how long he'd stay fit he does - meant to be back sometime in December as a conservative estimate.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Pretty odd squad if you ask me.

Few notables all right.

Starting at loosehead prop the decision to exclude David Kilcoyne is interesting. The logic is probably that he and McGrath bring much the same thing to the table while Court offers a greater presence at the set piece. Schmidt is known to like to have one rampager and one strong scrummager in his 23, so I suppose we shouldn't bee all that surprised. The only other topic of conversation in the front row is the exclusion of Martin Moore, but the coach may think it a bit soon for the guy. He'll gain a lot from being Leinster's front line tighthead while Ross is away in any case.

In the second row Henderson and Ryan aren't considered due to injury. Big chance for the other three guys to stake a claim. They all bring different things to the table and probably are about level pegging at the moment. will be very interesting to see where we stand come the end of November.

In the back row you could make the argument that Robin Copeland and Roger Wilson deserve a look in, but hey ho. Heaslip and O'Brien will start, two of Henry, McLaughlin and O'Mahony will also be in the 23. Would have expected that.

Half backs are what we'd have expected. Marmion a bit unlucky, but aside from that no one can have any complaints.

In the backs it looks like Henshaw will be covering 13 should anything happen to BOD. Dave Kearney can consider himself lucky enough to be there over Gilroy and Trimble, but he's probably considered partly due to his excellent aerial ability and be able to cover 15.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Long term injury, been some doubt over whether he'll ever play again - and how long he'd stay fit he does - meant to be back sometime in December as a conservative estimate.

He'll pull a Juan Smith and end up playing for Toulon, you heard it here first.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Stephen Ferris would literally be the worst player to possibly have in the Top 14.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Stephen Ferris would literally be the worst player to possibly have in the Top 14.

Mourad cares not.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Some strange calls in the squad. To be fair, if it was a Kidney squad we'd be criticizing him for a few things so for the sake of balance, I sould do the same.

I don't understand picking Dave Kearney over Andrew Trimble nor Eoin Reddan over Kieran Marmion. James Coughlan is possibly a bit lucky to earn a call up at the age of 33 after being dropped by Munster in their most recent game.

Now the positives. The coach has picked the three best looseheads in the country. Jack McGrath has been outstanding as an impact sub this year and scrummages better than Dave Kilcoyne. In truth, Kilcoyne could be under pressure for his Munster place too from the impressive James Cronin. Hopefully Kilcoyne responds to this in the best way possible with a chip on his shoulder and delivers some outstanding performances. Who'd have thought loosehead prop would become a strength?!

At tighthead, while I'm no fan of Stephen Archer, he deserves his spot in the squad ahead of Martin Moore. Moore's time will come but it's not yet.

It should be noted that Donncha O'Callaghan was a great servant to the Ireland team, whatever about his performances of late. I think going with Dan Tuohy and Devin Toner ahead of him is a progressive step.

 

[big ginger 8]

Stephen Ferris, Richardt Strauss, Tommy O'Donnell, Simon Zebo, Iain Henderson, Donnacha Ryan, Jordi Murphy

Are the players listed as not considered due to injury. First off I'm obviously absolutely delighted that Jack is in the squad, great guy and deserves it.

I am slightly annoyed at some selections but I will give Schmidt some leeway as his squad hasn't taken the field yet. As far as I can remember none of the players picked weren't in the original 42? I know Marmion wasn't in it so maybe that explains his non-selection forget about Moore though? And possibly Tuohy wasn't included?

 

[osullie6]

I am slightly annoyed at some selections but I will give Schmidt some leeway as his squad hasn't taken the field yet. As far as I can remember none of the players picked weren't in the original 42? I know Marmion wasn't in it so maybe that explains his non-selection forget about Moore though? And possibly Tuohy wasn't included?

Court wasn't in the original 42 if I remember right.

I'm happy with the squad for the most part. I would have liked to have seen Moore and Gilroy included. I've no real complaints apart from that.

 

[lynam1104]

DISCLAIMER It's 5 ****ing 30 am and i'm a fair bit hammered

I'd say its a bit Leinster bias which I'd expect considering history, but I would have critiqued Kidney so I should do so to joe. It's mostly as expected the biggest Leinster centric call would be J.McG ahed of Kilcoyne. I sort of hoped Lukey to get a look in but he only played a game and a half this season so fair enough. Unfortunately Gilroy and Zebo are out I think as I really like the threat they provide out wide but equally Earls in form can do the same as any of Trimble/Gilroy/Zebo. I think that the 50/50 calls would have provided us with the same chance of winning the 3 tests.

This post doesn't make much sense but I can't sleep so it's something for you guys to pick apart.

 

[profitius]

No complaints from me. Heres a team of players who didn't make the squad! Some players left out are O'Callaghan, Marmion, Wilson, Moore, Luke Fitzgerald, Trimble, Olding, Cave, Gilroy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Keatley,
Injured Stephen Ferris (Ulster), Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Tommy O'Donnell (Munster), Jordi Murphy (Leinster), Simon Zebo (Munster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Iain Henderson (Ulster).


Kilcoyne, Strauss, Moore
Henderson, Ryan
O'Donnell, Ferris, Jordi Murphy
Keatley, Marmion
Zebo, Luke Fitz, Olding, Gilroy
Morris

Subs: Lutton, Varley, j Cronin, DOC, Copeland, JJ Hanrahan, P Marshall, Trimble

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

No complaints from me. Heres a team of players who didn't make the squad! Some players left out are O'Callaghan, Marmion, Wilson, Moore, Luke Fitzgerald, Trimble, Olding, Cave, Gilroy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Keatley,
Injured Stephen Ferris (Ulster), Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Tommy O'Donnell (Munster), Jordi Murphy (Leinster), Simon Zebo (Munster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Iain Henderson (Ulster).


Kilcoyne, Strauss, Moore
Henderson, Ryan
O'Donnell, Ferris, Jordi Murphy
Keatley, Marmion
Zebo, Luke Fitz, Olding, Gilroy
Morris

Subs: Lutton, Varley, j Cronin, DOC, Copeland, JJ Hanrahan, P Marshall, Trimble

thought u said keatley isn't in the squad

 

[profitius]

thought u said keatley isn't in the squad

He isn't. Sexton, Jackson and Madigan are the 10s.

 

[Peat]

Its his team of players not involved.

To me, the weird calls are -

Court deserves to be there on form, but he never seems to translate the scrummaging, and doesn't do much around the park at international level. It would have been a progressive step to leave him out.

Coughlan ahead of Wilson does not seem a good call

Both Reddan AND Boss with no Marmion is an interesting one, although personally I don't think its an issue

Dave Kearney - seriously - international quality? I don't watch all of Leinster's games, but I'd have said no. Henshaw covers full-back, Gilroy could, Niall Morris could... incidentally, heavy rumour that Olding will be starting at 15 for Ulster this week.

If Jordi Murphy is listed in missing through injury - was he in serious contention? Strikes me as a bit weird as well tbh.

Still, its mainly quibbling over players at the fringe. I remember lots of talk about how Kidney wasn't master of his own squad choices - is Schmidt?

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Its his team of players not involved.

To me, the weird calls are -

Court deserves to be there on form, but he never seems to translate the scrummaging, and doesn't do much around the park at international level. It would have been a progressive step to leave him out.

Coughlan ahead of Wilson does not seem a good call

Both Reddan AND Boss with no Marmion is an interesting one, although personally I don't think its an issue

Dave Kearney - seriously - international quality? I don't watch all of Leinster's games, but I'd have said no. Henshaw covers full-back, Gilroy could, Niall Morris could... incidentally, heavy rumour that Olding will be starting at 15 for Ulster this week.

If Jordi Murphy is listed in missing through injury - was he in serious contention? Strikes me as a bit weird as well tbh.

Still, its mainly quibbling over players at the fringe. I remember lots of talk about how Kidney wasn't master of his own squad choices - is Schmidt?

then i'd say let court be a sub for international then he can step up

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

La Squadra:


Backs
Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster)
Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92)


Forwards
Stephen Archer (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
James Coughlan (Dolphin/Munster)*
Tom Court (Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)*
Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

not sure about it

 

[Feicarsinn]

The question of Isaac Boss' involvement is an interesting one. Personally I think he's a better player at this stage of his career than Reddan, but does he bring anything to the table that Murray doesn't? Perhaps Marmion on that basis alone would have been a better call.