[2013 EOYT] Ireland

[Jockstap]

Whoops dp

 

[Feicarsinn]

4/4 for the Irish provinces bodes well for November. Ulster have the hard work done to a certain extent in their pool, so their contingent should be full of confidence. Leinster have been somewhat below par, but with some key injuries and a new coach they probably can't have expected to be as cohesive as at the tail end of last season. 2 wins from 2 though and O'Connor stating that the focus of the team will now move to improving the attack things are looking up. Connacht gave Toulouse a very tough game and won comfortably against Aironi. Not much more can be expected of them. Munster had a bad outing against Edinburgh that will seriously hurt their chances, but a good win against Glos, in particular denying them the bonus point, should stand them in decent stead.


The best thing thing Ireland have going for them at the moment is that their big player are playing well. Heaslip, O'Brien and Healy have been excellent for Leinster this far. Rory Best seems to have picked up some form while Tommy Bowe continues to score well. The injury to Mike Ross is worrying, but Martin Moore has done well when he's come in. Keith Earls is putting together some good performances on the wing in the absence of Simon Zebo. This November's success will obviously be determined by the Australia game. While a win isn't the be all and end all seeing how little time the coach will have had with his squad, Irish fans will want to see the beginnings of a proper game plan.

 

[lynam1104]

What are your guys thoughts on how we treat the Samoa match, I'm not sure if we should stick with the guys who have preformed at this level in the past and really target the win or give some younger and fringe player a start and not really care about the result. I'm conflicted on wanting to see Ireland win once in awhile and looking further down the line.

 

[Feicarsinn]

As ever, you pick a team to win. It does young players no good to be thrown in en masse. You could make an argument to include the likes of Jackson, Gilroy, Henderson or Moore, but the spine of the team must stay the same. Particularly given the current strength of Samoa.

 

[Jockstap]

Schmidt has commented on this already, you pick your best XV for every match as you only have 10 international games a year. It's up to the provinces to establish who deserves to be there, although I'm not sure this will apply to all players, Henderson for example.

 

[profitius]

Squad being named tomorrow with the captain not being named until they meet up in a few weeks.

 

[big ginger 8]

So peoples teams for Samoa?

I think we need to strike a balance between winning what will in all likelihood be a very tough match, getting used to Schmidt's way and developing.

With that in mind I have promoted some guys but only those that I think can perform, are suited to playing Samoa and/or we need to find out if they can do it or not because of injury.

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Tuohy
5. O'Connell
6. Henderson
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Marshall
13. Cave
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Moore
19. McCarthy
20. O'Mahony
21. Marmion
22. Jackson
23. Henshaw

Pretty fallow in some area and tbh I'm not even sure they'll have a third loosehead in the squad so Jack may not be there. Btw I'd have Toner on the bench vs Aus I just don't think this is the game for him.

 

[profitius]

For Samoa I'd mix it up and go with something like

1 McGrath
2 Best
3 Archer
4 McCarthy
5 Toner
6 McLaughlin
7 Henry
8 Heaslip
9 Marmion
10 Sexton
11 Morris
12 Marshall
13 Cave
14 McFadden
15 Kearney

Subs Healy, Cronin, Moore, Henderson, POM, Madigan, Murray, Bowe


Thats a big physical team with a big impact off the bench. No SOB, BOD, Earls, Fitzgerald, Henshaw, POC, Ross, Sherry, Kilcoyne, Fitzpatrick, DOC etc most of which should get some gametime in the other two matches.

 

[Feicarsinn]

That side would lose to Samoa.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

That side would lose to Samoa.

i agree you shouldn't underrated samoa they have improved a lot since the world cup like this year they've beaten scotland for the first time ever and demolished italy aswell the last time ireland had played samoa they only won 20 - 10 so i'd say ireland should play a pretty strong team against samoa

 

[psychic duck]

Samoa have named a strong squad, Ireland really should be playing the best team. Downside is though that Samoa normally have a certain few players who will make sure that at least 2/3 players will not be fit for the next game through some vicious late high tackle or something. With that in mind, a Samoa fixture is a big risk in selection either way you go.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't see any point in putting anything but a full strength side out against Samoa. They are not a second tier side like they have been in the past and more importantly It's Schmidt's first three games as Ireland coach and a lot of people are demanding 2 out of 3. Schmidt needs to pick his own team, get his systems set up and have Ireland in a good place for the 6nations, he'll be doing well to acheive that in the space of three games with his strongest team.

 

[profitius]

If Ireland play their strongest side in all 3 games theres a danger they could get trounced again by NZ. Schmidt hinted that hes going to rotate a bit. Probably not as much as my team there.

 

[Feicarsinn]

If Ireland play their strongest side in all 3 games theres a danger they could get trounced again by NZ. Schmidt hinted that hes going to rotate a bit. Probably not as much as my team there.

Yeah, it's going to require a bit more spacing out. Anything more than about 4 changes per game would be a bit too much imo. We simply don't have the depth.

 

[Big Ewis]

really psyched about all three matchups ! haven't seen those matchups in a long time.
Ireland Samoa, I think, is the most intriguing.
Samoa could very well have another excellent November Tour and keep putting tries on a stunned Ireland, like they did to Wales last year. Or Ireland can sort a super tight defense and manage a couple of tries themselves with a few penalty 3's...I don't see Ireland punishing Samoa though. And from what I've seen, Samoa might have a small advantage in the scroom.

 

[Peat]

While rotation to fit a gameplan is a very Schmidt thing and one I can see happening, I'm struggling to see where he rotates. Possibly he does so with O'Connell's partner - particularly if Ryan is injured as rumoured - and the options at 6 are much of a likeness. He could probably rotate his wings freely enough but you don't need to. Everywhere else, I'd say there's a dude who's clearly ahead of his peers for the jersey.

 

[Feicarsinn]

While rotation to fit a gameplan is a very Schmidt thing and one I can see happening, I'm struggling to see where he rotates. Possibly he does so with O'Connell's partner - particularly if Ryan is injured as rumoured - and the options at 6 are much of a likeness. He could probably rotate his wings freely enough but you don't need to. Everywhere else, I'd say there's a dude who's clearly ahead of his peers for the jersey.

He's got a lot of freedom at lock and in the back row. Devin Toner has been arguably the form lock in the country this season and provides a serious line out option, while Donnacha Ryan is more established in the squad and Mike McCarthy gives you a stronger scrummaging presence. At 6 he has a whole host of options, namely Iain Henderson, Kevin McLaughlin and Peter O'Mahony, while one of the latter and Robin Copeland could see time at eight. Roger Wilson's early season for shouldn't be discounted.

In the half backs Kieran Marmion has looked good so far this season and Paddy Jackson has been impressing up north. While neither are ready to challenge for a starting spot, one of them should probably start in the Samoa game with a more experienced partner.

At 12 D'arcy has been playing well for Leinster this season while Luke Marshall showed in the spring that he may be capable of making the step up to this level. A lot could be said for trying Marshall in the Australia game and giving D'arcy the Samoa match. The back three sees a plethora of options.

The front row situation is interesting. On the face of it you'd say that Mike Ross is the only viable three option, but Martin Moore has seen a lot more game time than him thus far and in my opinion has been performing better. With the new scrum laws Ross becomes something of an unknown quantity so it may be worth giving the former under 20 captain Moore a run. At loosehead David Kilcoyne and Jack McGrath both provide good backup to Cian Healy, with McGrath in particular looking very capable for Leinster (I must admit that I've seen more of him.) They're both huge downgrades on Healy, but they would serve if an injury cropped up. At hooker Best has been the best (haw,) but Sean Cronin was very very good against Ospreys. His throwing let him down somewhat against Castres, but if we went with Toner and O'Connell in the second row you'd imagine we'd be able to compensate for that. Mike Sherry I haven't seen enough of this season. A shame Richardt Strauss is out.

But on the face of it I agree with you. With perhaps the exception of the back row Ireland's 23 is pretty much written in stone. Where there's debate it's usually an area of weakness. As things stand the side will look something like this:

15) Kearney
14) Bowe
13) O'Driscoll
12) D'arcy/Marshall
11) Earls
10 Sexton
9) Murray
8) Heaslip
7) O'Brien
6) Henderson/McLaughlin/O'Mahony
5) O'Connell
4) Ryan/Toner/McCarthy/Henderson
3) Ross/Moore
2) Best
1) Healy

16) Kilcoyne/McGrath
17) Cronin
18) Moore/Ross/Archer
19) Toner/McCarthy/Henderson
20) O'Mahony/McLaughlin/Henderson/Wilson
21) Reddan/Boss/Marmion
22) Jackson/Madigan
23) Meh

 

[Peat]

Would like to throw in the Chocolate Firepot and Tuohy into the tight five reckoning. Tuohy in particular has been in great form, another guy who could claim to be the form lock in the country, and he's got more than decent handling and athleticism. Deccie Fitz has been doing well for him in that he's stayed fit and actually done things other than scrum, I appreciate that's not the greatest endorsement in the world, but he's the only Irish tighthead other than Ross who can definitely scrummage at international level. But I'm not sure either would be troubling Ross or Ryan at this stage, barring the injury talk. The other options can trouble Ryan, in that they offer different things, but I think Ryan and Tuohy are fairly similar all-rounders.

The 12 question is a bit more interesting. I haven't seen D'Arcy convert provincial to international form for a long time but we know why that might be. Luke Marshall can definitely do things at international level but he has not made the definite case for the shirt at provincial level. Its possible Ulster are currently benching the best 12 in Ireland. I think Eamonn Sheridan's inclusion in a squad is now a matter of time, he has started like a train for London Irish. However, the sensible thing for now imo is to give the shirt to Marshall and see if he can keep it - and if you're doing that, you don't rotate him. Certainly by now I fail to see what qualities D'Arcy has over him other than experience and familiarity. Not discounting those things, but I don't think that's enough for a horses for courses approach.

Jackson is in great form but is a season away from putting real pressure on Sexton imo, ditto Cronin with Best, both guys need to show consistency, Healy and Heaslip are both secure for a game you really want to win and I don't think there's any room for experimenting there this autumn.

Which leaves 6. I want to argue for Henderson but its really difficult when he's not getting the time. McLaughlin is an honest workhorse and no more, he'll do a fine job but will never be a standout. O'Mahony, eh, clear talent but not enough to be ahead, and possibly not the best balance. Wilson has played really well when at 6 this season - and I think you could even go with a Henry/O'Brien combo if you were so minded, that looks good to me. Would certainly free Heaslip up to concentrate more on his carrying. By far the most interesting selection decision in the squad if you ask me.

 

[osullie6]

Anyone know what time the squad announcement is today?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Would like to throw in the Chocolate Firepot and Tuohy into the tight five reckoning. Tuohy in particular has been in great form, another guy who could claim to be the form lock in the country, and he's got more than decent handling and athleticism. Deccie Fitz has been doing well for him in that he's stayed fit and actually done things other than scrum, I appreciate that's not the greatest endorsement in the world, but he's the only Irish tighthead other than Ross who can definitely scrummage at international level. But I'm not sure either would be troubling Ross or Ryan at this stage, barring the injury talk. The other options can trouble Ryan, in that they offer different things, but I think Ryan and Tuohy are fairly similar all-rounders.

The 12 question is a bit more interesting. I haven't seen D'Arcy convert provincial to international form for a long time but we know why that might be. Luke Marshall can definitely do things at international level but he has not made the definite case for the shirt at provincial level. Its possible Ulster are currently benching the best 12 in Ireland. I think Eamonn Sheridan's inclusion in a squad is now a matter of time, he has started like a train for London Irish. However, the sensible thing for now imo is to give the shirt to Marshall and see if he can keep it - and if you're doing that, you don't rotate him. Certainly by now I fail to see what qualities D'Arcy has over him other than experience and familiarity. Not discounting those things, but I don't think that's enough for a horses for courses approach.

Jackson is in great form but is a season away from putting real pressure on Sexton imo, ditto Cronin with Best, both guys need to show consistency, Healy and Heaslip are both secure for a game you really want to win and I don't think there's any room for experimenting there this autumn.

Which leaves 6. I want to argue for Henderson but its really difficult when he's not getting the time. McLaughlin is an honest workhorse and no more, he'll do a fine job but will never be a standout. O'Mahony, eh, clear talent but not enough to be ahead, and possibly not the best balance. Wilson has played really well when at 6 this season - and I think you could even go with a Henry/O'Brien combo if you were so minded, that looks good to me. Would certainly free Heaslip up to concentrate more on his carrying. By far the most interesting selection decision in the squad if you ask me.

Second test against the All Blacks last summer brew. A lot of the good work Heaslip and O'Brien do is enabled by Locky.