[2013 EOYT] England

[iINDOMINUSxx]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/03/toby-flood-leicester-england-call-time dont think its that big a lost for england but decided to mention it anyway

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That link was already posted in here 5 hrs ago

 

[The Jones Boy]

I'm not interested in bashing owen Farrell because i think the kid is excellent but he needs time at the helm. He's still green.
Giving Cipriani a run would encourage Farrell to have a look outside him instead of hoisting the high ball. If someone at the top puts their arm around Cips and has a quiet encouraging talk to him , the kind he never got the first time around, you might just see something special from him.
Be nice to see him get another run.

 

[Patchey]

I'm not interested in bashing owen Farrell because i think the kid is excellent but he needs time at the helm. He's still green.
Giving Cipriani a run would encourage Farrell to have a look outside him instead of hoisting the high ball. If someone at the top puts their arm around Cips and has a quiet encouraging talk to him , the kind he never got the first time around, you might just see something special from him.
Be nice to see him get another run.

I don't know someone with twenty caps and nearly two hundred points, as well as a Lions tour under their belt, can still be classed as 'green' to be honest. Sure I wouldn't call him experienced, although because our squad is so young he is own of the most capped backs I believe.

As you say Farrell needs to learn to look either side of him. He also needs to acquire some pace and actually become a consistent kicker rather than just a kicker the press tells us is consistent.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Geez you Poms are hard on your boys, he's still a kid with more caps as a sub than a starter and he was a passenger on the Lions tour.
He needs time to mature in the spotlight.
Toby Flood has never impressed me at the highest level.
They should give Cips a run and let him see what he can do.

 

[Patchey]

I'm 99.9% certain he's started a lot more than he's benched. Apart from the first game or two of the 2012 Six Nationa and when he's been unavailable for selection he has been our starting ten.

 

[The Jones Boy]

It doesn't matter he's a kid, the more you start him the better he will get and the more comfortable with the role. It would be good to use Cips and maybe Flood to start the odd game.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It doesn't matter he's a kid, the more you start him the better he will get and the more comfortable with the role. It would be good to use Cips and maybe Flood to start the odd game.

I don't disagree with Farrell being allowed to mature but he should at the very least be made to feel he has to earn the 10 rather than getting it by default for nothing special. Mike Brown tore the 15 from Alex Goode by being much better, I mean MUCH better. Farrel has no such competition, he is average with average competition and the protection of daddy Farrell. If he knows his position is secure I doubt he will ever make anything more of himself than he currently has. If he feels he has to fight for the shirt, he may up his game or lose out to someone better. It's win-win for England to have competition for every position.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I really feel the only person to really challenge Farrell will be ford. Simply because of the Gloucester pack.

We really still lack any com potion in the backs apart from fb.

No standout 9, 10, 12, 13 or wings.

 

[Maverick1987]

I really feel the only person to really challenge Farrell will be ford. Simply because of the Gloucester pack.

We really still lack any com potion in the backs apart from fb.

No standout 9, 10, 12, 13 or wings.

No way . We have 3 decent SH , at least 3 decent FH possibly 4 , quite a few centres have put their hand up recently and wings we have at least 6 not including Ashton obviously . Our biggest issue is they don't get bloody picked !!!!!!! It's frustrating . There's no way of people like ford Burrell trinder Watson or May of proving **** if they don't get a chance !

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

No way . We have 3 decent SH , at least 3 decent FH possibly 4 , quite a few centres have put their hand up recently and wings we have at least 6 not including Ashton obviously . Our biggest issue is they don't get bloody picked !!!!!!! It's frustrating . There's no way of people like ford Burrell trinder Watson or May of proving **** if they don't get a chance !

That's entirely my point though, loads of options but not one standout option for 12 though. No one player who would get into the Australia side (backs I'm talking about). If we were to do a list of the best premiership players for 9 - 15 how many would be English?

 

[Maverick1987]

That's entirely my point though, loads of options but not one standout option for 12 though. No one player who would get into the Australia side (backs I'm talking about). If we were to do a list of the best premiership players for 9 - 15 how many would be English?

Best FB - mike brown
Best 14 - Christian wade on try scoring alone
Best 13 - I think tuilagi only my opinion though
Best 12 - not sure . This year so far Burrell has impressed me massively
Best 11 - who knows, Yarde is well sought after apparently though
Best 10 - nick Evans
Best 9 - again i don't know but Danny care is among the best in the aviva anyway

 

[j'nuh]

That's entirely my point though, loads of options but not one standout option for 12 though. No one player who would get into the Australia side (backs I'm talking about). If we were to do a list of the best premiership players for 9 - 15 how many would be English?

9 - Fotuali'i
10 - Flood
11 - Yarde/May/Wade
12 - Twelvetrees
13 - Tuilagi
14 - North
15 - O'Connor

Alternatively, put O'Connor at 10/12 and add Brown.

btw, I think Twelvetrees is a standout 12. First game for England aside, he's done very, very well this season, especially considering the context of how Gloucester's season is currently going.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If we're going off actual play this season, rather than reputation, then I don't think Fotuali'i would be the best 9 (he's been outplayed by Dickson at his club) nor would JOC be 15 (he's looked good for Not Nots, but he's played what, 2 games? - This would go to Brown).

Don't think that Evans has been the best 10. That'd go to Andy Goode or Danny Cipriani for me.

 

[Packman]

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3556_9058135,00.html

found this on planet rugby's website. Lazy lazy lazy. I think saying that England have turned a corner by beating a 2nd string Pumas team twice, getting all the calls vs Australia and then beating a demoralised Argentina is very shallow. we've added some extra grip tires as far was our pack goes about clearing out rucks but I'm expecting significant changes behind the English pack come France in Paris or we will lose. we have not turned the corner at all. the bend is in front of us, we'll reach it in February and we'll either accelerate through it or go flying off the cliff depending on who plays 9 to 14. Brown has nailed the 15 shirt.

 

[Packman]

This is interesting, How long did Fotuali'i play in Wales and does his time in Great Britain mean he can play for England? (reeeeally struggling to keep my facetious streak in check here!)

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

If we're going off actual play this season, rather than reputation, then I don't think Fotuali'i would be the best 9 (he's been outplayed by Dickson at his club) nor would JOC be 15 (he's looked good for Not Nots, but he's played what, 2 games? - This would go to Brown).

Don't think that Evans has been the best 10. That'd go to Andy Goode or Danny Cipriani for me.

I'm a fan of Goode but he's been pants so far, especially against Bath - I'd agree about Cipriani.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Erm... Fotuali'i is a capped Samoan international!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm a fan of Goode but he's been pants so far, especially against Bath - I'd agree about Cipriani.

Ah, I'll have to take your word for it. I've not seen every Wasps game, but those I have he's been very good (especially vs Tigers).

 

[McTallshort]

Never been a Cipriani fan because he has never shown any real consistently.and he wouldn't fit into the current "do what you are told not what you believe" mindset that SL and daddy Faz seem to have installed in the English back line and would be at odds with both most of the time.

Flood seems to have given up at starting at 10 now with a possible move abroad which is a big shame because as anyone who watches premier rugby he a far better 10 than Farrell.