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2013 British and Irish Lions

Hibbard will rightly be nowhere near the Lions. He's a great ball carrier and tackler, but his lineout throwing is inconsistent and he's prone to errors and in-discipline (nothing nasty, but just giving away silly penalties).

The hookers that will be in contention for the Lions will be: Rory Best, Matthew Rees, Ken Owens, Dylan Hartley & Ross Ford. Two of those will probably not go, which two I don't know. I think Best is a sure thing (most consistent performer of the lot over the past couple of seasons), and I'd also like to see Owens and Hartley go. Rees' form has been poor, and his lineout throwing is simply not as good as Owens'. I'm not a huge fan of Hartley, but I can see him going. I feel Ford is overrated.

I don't think we'll see Farrell making the tour either. Roberts, BOD and Tuilagi are probably safe bets to go, and I can see Davies going as well. Beck may be a good shout depending on how much gametime he get's for Wales in the AI's and 6 nations. I think Hook is almost certain to tour because he offers such versatility from the bench.

Ashton is another that might not make it. North, Cuthbert and Bowe are in front of him, and even though many don't like the idea, Visser has a good shot because he's just a try scoring machine. Earls offers a little versatility, while we could see a bolter like Liam Williams or Morgan Stoddart making the tour. Ashton has got to have a much better season for England than he did last season that's for sure.

Lloyd Williams won't go.

I'm not sure Alun-Wyn will be in contention for captaincy. I'd have Warburton personally.
 
Urgh, I'd forgotten the grim inevitability of Cuthbert touring (and starting) too.

With North and Visser you've already got two great (and big) wingers, no need to take along Banahan Jr.
 
Urgh, I'd forgotten the grim inevitability of Cuthbert touring (and starting) too.

With North and Visser you've already got two great (and big) wingers, no need to take along Banahan Jr.
Cuthbert > Visser

Dickie Hibbs, no chance, but he is really no worse than Owens or Rees. (Why can't we have one hooker on form?)
 
I like Tommy Bowe he's Irish. Also looks to be in good form for Ulster.
 
Cuthbert > Visser

Dickie Hibbs, no chance, but he is really no worse than Owens or Rees. (Why can't we have one hooker on form?)

@ Dull, yes, Hook is a great bench option. The 2009 series would be in British hands if he benched.

What are the thoughts on second row? I'll say besides Paulie because if I don't include him I have to sit on the naughty step.
Ian Evans was simply outstanding in the Six Nations, the standout second row. AWJ is inconsistent and Bradley a liability at times (Ian Evans a few years back). I can't comment on Charteris at this time.
 
Urgh, I'd forgotten the grim inevitability of Cuthbert touring (and starting) too.

With North and Visser you've already got two great (and big) wingers, no need to take along Banahan Jr.

???? Cuthbert has been great in every single international game he has played. He was a standout player in Wales' disappointing Summer tour. He has also been excellent for the Blues, both last season and this season despite the Blues extremely poor form.

Cuthbert has proven himself in my opinion and is 100 times better than Banahan, and as Draggs I'd have him in front of Visser at the moment as well. Tarring him with the same brush just because he's big is unfair. He's current;y one of the best options for the Lions, and that is regardless of size.

What are the thoughts on second row? I'll say besides Paulie because if I don't include him I have to sit on the naughty step.
Ian Evans was simply outstanding in the Six Nations, the standout second row. AWJ is inconsistent and Bradley a liability at times (Ian Evans a few years back). I can't comment on Charteris at this time.

Second row will be interesting. I think POC, Alun-Wyn Jones and Gray are certainties. Alun-Wyn may be a little inconsistent, but his form is currently good, and has been for quite a while. Howley snubbing Ian Evans in the summer was a big mistake, he's a real enforcer on the pitch, so I think he should also go. Just needs to watch those high tackles. I can't comment on Charteris either, other than the fight he was involved in which I saw on rugbydump (didn't know he had it in him!). Bradley Davies is just a shadow of his former self. I don't see what he adds. He looks slow and ponderous and as you say Draggs is a liability at times.
 
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@ Dull, yes, Hook is a great bench option. The 2009 series would be in British hands if he benched.

What are the thoughts on second row? I'll say besides Paulie because if I don't include him I have to sit on the naughty step.
Ian Evans was simply outstanding in the Six Nations, the standout second row. AWJ is inconsistent and Bradley a liability at times (Ian Evans a few years back). I can't comment on Charteris at this time.

PO'C and Gray IMO would be a brilliant partnership.
 
Cuthbert really doesn't play like a wing near 2m tall. He looks for the gap and to step others. Look at his try v France: paaaace.
The only one I can remember him smashing through was v Scotland on Laidlaw's pathetic tackle attempt.

Gray is hit and miss. I have seen him play very well, but also rather anonymous at times. Still, better than Lawes.
 
Cuthbert really doesn't play like a wing near 2m tall. He looks for the gap and to step others. Look at his try v France: paaaace.
The only one I can remember him smashing through was v Scotland on Laidlaw's pathetic tackle attempt.

I'm sorry but a biggest part of Cuthbert's game is running fast and straight and he does play like a near 2 metre tall winger, nothing like a smaller winger. He has little agility like North does and does not have a sidestep. What he does do well though, is run hard, fast and straight through gaps, and is a good finisher. But take away his size, and Cuthbert wouldn't be good.
 
I'm sorry but a biggest part of Cuthbert's game is running fast and straight and he does play like a near 2 metre tall winger, nothing like a smaller winger. He has little agility like North does and does not have a sidestep. What he does do well though, is run hard, fast and straight through gaps, and is a good finisher. But take away his size, and Cuthbert wouldn't be good.

But he doesn't play like Banahan, i.e. ignore space and run straight no matter what. He looks for the gaps, and he runs at weak shoulders like he should. It'd be silly of him to ignore his size, but he isn't dependent on his size. The try v France is a good example, he stepped the fullback instead of trying to run over him. This also shows that he does have a decent step, but certainly not the agility North has, but then North is a freak of nature. Cuthbert is also very quick and has the pace to beat opposite wingers on the outside and has done plenty of times.
 
Former England fly-half Jonny Wilkinson says he would relish the chance to end his international career by playing for the British and Irish Lions on their tour of Australia next summer.

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So has "retired" changed it's meaning now?
 
But he doesn't play like Banahan, i.e. ignore space and run straight no matter what.

True, he picks gaps if they are available, but doesn't run into the players for the sake of it like Banahan.

He looks for the gaps, and he runs at weak shoulders like he should.

True.

The try v France is a good example, he stepped the fullback instead of trying to run over him. This also shows that he does have a decent step, but certainly not the agility North has, but then North is a freak of nature. Cuthbert is also very quick and has the pace to beat opposite wingers on the outside and has done plenty of times.

No he didn't step the full back. He just picked his line and run straight at an angle. That try was also in large part helped by the fact that full back was in fact a scrum half who was scared to tackle and just lent out a feeble arm.

He has no sidestep, and that was no example of one. This is what you call a sidestep ...

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Second row will be interesting. I think POC, Alun-Wyn Jones and Gray are certainties. Alun-Wyn may be a little inconsistent, but his form is currently good, and has been for quite a while. Howley snubbing Ian Evans in the summer was a big mistake, he's a real enforcer on the pitch, so I think he should also go. Just needs to watch those high tackles. I can't comment on Charteris either, other than the fight he was involved in which I saw on rugbydump (didn't know he had it in him!). Bradley Davies is just a shadow of his former self. I don't see what he adds. He looks slow and ponderous and as you say Draggs is a liability at times.


I enjoyed this post. Essentially it went 'POC & Richie Grey because they're the outstanding candidates. WALES WALES WALES WALES WALES.'

Not that any of the guys you mentioned are out of the running. It just seems a bit negligent not to mention the likes of Lawes, Ryan, Ryan Jones and Geoff Parling.


EDIT: **** it, play Toner and Grey. It'd actually be embarrassing if we lost a line out with those two on the pitch.
 
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I enjoyed this post. Essentially it went 'POC & Richie Grey because they're the outstanding candidates. WALES WALES WALES WALES WALES.'

Not that any of the guys you mentioned are out of the running. It just seems a bit negligent not to mention the likes of Lawes, Ryan, Ryan Jones and Geoff Parling.


EDIT: **** it, play Toner and Grey. It'd actually be embarrassing if we lost a line out with those two on the pitch.
Not to try and speak for Dull, but I think he was just referring to Welsh players in the context of the Lions.
I have avoided mentioning other second rows because I have not seen enough of them.
I'd take Parling over Lawes, for the record.
 
@ Dull, yes, Hook is a great bench option. The 2009 series would be in British hands if he benched.

What are the thoughts on second row? I'll say besides Paulie because if I don't include him I have to sit on the naughty step.
Ian Evans was simply outstanding in the Six Nations, the standout second row. AWJ is inconsistent and Bradley a liability at times (Ian Evans a few years back). I can't comment on Charteris at this time.
By that if you mean sometimes he's good and sometimes he's great... :p

AWJ has been the best Welsh lock at the start of the season. Think he'll be partnering Gray. That said, I'd be worried about the lineout. AWJ has been in the Welsh squad at points when the lineout has fallen apart, and Gray is wayyyy too heavy for a middle jumper. One of POC, Parling or Evans has to be on the bench in case this happens, with another of these players touring. The form player out of Lawes and Hamilton to cover for Gray. Ryan Jones taken as a backrower but with the potential to cover second row.
 
Not to try and speak for Dull, but I think he was just referring to Welsh players in the context of the Lions.
I have avoided mentioning other second rows because I have not seen enough of them.
I'd take Parling over Lawes, for the record.

Pretty much. I don't get a chance to watch any of the Aviva because I have too much uni work. I only really have time to watch the games involving Welsh regions, although that obviously includes watching a decent amount of Irish Provinces and Scottish teams as well. I'll watch more of the HC if poss, so will be able to comment on the likes of Lawes and Parling more then. Ryan has been in good form, but I can't see him making the Lions especially when Kidneys love child O'Callaghan will probably still be partnering POC in the AI's and 6 nations.

So no intent on ignoring the others Feicarsinn, just mainly commenting on what I know.
 
Pretty much. I don't get a chance to watch any of the Aviva because I have too much uni work. I only really have time to watch the games involving Welsh regions, although that obviously includes watching a decent amount of Irish Provinces and Scottish teams as well. I'll watch more of the HC if poss, so will be able to comment on the likes of Lawes and Parling more then. Ryan has been in good form, but I can't see him making the Lions especially when Kidneys love child O'Callaghan will probably still be partnering POC in the AI's and 6 nations.

So no intent on ignoring the others Feicarsinn, just mainly commenting on what I know.

Ah, fair enough. Anyway, fortunately Ryan has overtaken DOC at this point for both Munster and Ireland, so that's nice. He also can do a shift at 6, which may appeal to Gatland, should he want to bring two opensides.

Anyway, based on the last squad I'd imagine 5 locks will go. AWJ and POC will probably tour, having done themselves no disservice on the last tour and still playing well enough. Richie Grey must travel. That leaves 2 spots for Ryan, Jones, Evans, Parling and the rest to fight over. We wont be weak in that area of the field in any case.





But seriously, Toner could be a fantastic outside bet. Look at the bloody size of him. If we wanted to have a real go at the Ozzie line out then him and Grey would be the ultimate pairing. He's playing very well at the moment too, and on form would be in the Irish 22 at the very least.
 

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