2013 British and Irish Lions

[TRF_Cymro]

The cleaness of the ball isn't the issue. The amount of protect he gets - or rather doesn't get - is. The first thing he has to do as a general rule is make sure he's not going to get clattered halfway through passing, although the protection looked better this WC.

I also think having more options in the backline is good for him, as otherwise he feels obliged to take the ball on himself too much. An in-form Roberts and North provided that. Again, that's a recent development for Wales (neither was an issue with the Lions).

Not really ... but keep on convincing yourself that this is the truth but in reality it is not.

 

[Peat]

Not really ... but keep on convincing yourself that this is the truth but in reality it is not.

Thanks for your permission. Makes all the difference.

Would you care then to have a stab at explaining why Phillips has been so slow for most of the last couple of years for Wales, despite having shown and possessing the ability to give quick service?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Thanks for your permission. Makes all the difference.

Would you care then to have a stab at explaining why Phillips has been so slow for most of the last couple of years for Wales, despite having shown and possessing the ability to give quick service?

He's never had the ability to pass the ball quickly, from his time with the Scarlets, Blues and Ospreys it has been evident.

 

[Aedaphon]

Actually on the point of Phillips does anyone know if Cusiter is back to full fitness? Haven't been able to watch any Celtic league matches recently.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Actually on the point of Phillips does anyone know if Cusiter is back to full fitness? Haven't been able to watch any Celtic league matches recently.

He was Scotland's 3rd choice SH during the World Cup.

 

[j'nuh]

He's never had the ability to pass the ball quickly, from his time with the Scarlets, Blues and Ospreys it has been evident.

It isn't his actual passing speed that means much. The problem Phillips has had is that he doesn't get the ball out and recycle fast enough. Often, after the forwards get some momentum going, he'll wait until half his team piles into the ruck, he never goes digging for the ball and waits for it to pop out, often holds the ball at the base of the ruck for a few seconds, then finally makes a pass. By the time he does this, the opposition defense has reorganised. It isn't his passing speed that's the worry, it's his overall speed of delivery. In the WC, he was a lot better at getting the ball out of rucks faster, but he'd often drift back into playing slow for patches in the game (perhaps absent-mindedly after being that way for so long), so he probably needs someone to slap him on the face and tell him to play faster.

 

[JW.]

It isn't his actual passing speed that means much. The problem Phillips has had is that he doesn't get the ball out and recycle fast enough. Often, after the forwards get some momentum going, he'll wait until half his team piles into the ruck, he never goes digging for the ball and waits for it to pop out, often holds the ball at the base of the ruck for a few seconds, then finally makes a pass. By the time he does this, the opposition defense has reorganised. It isn't his passing speed that's the worry, it's his overall speed of delivery. In the WC, he was a lot better at getting the ball out of rucks faster, but he'd often drift back into playing slow for patches in the game (perhaps absent-mindedly after being that way for so long), so he probably needs someone to slap him on the face and tell him to play faster.

He picks the ball up and instead of spinning it out he has to pull the ball to his chest to control and be able to pass it. He has a weak floorpass which he covers up like that. He's there on time his couple of steps and his slow passing style just messes up any decent ball.

 

[big ginger 8]

1. Jenkins
2. Strauss
3. Jones
4. Davies
5. Gray
6. Ferris
7. Warburton
8. O'Brien
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Rees
17. Healy
18. Lawes
19. Heaslip
20. Knoyle
21. Priestland
22. Foden

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Will BOD still be around in '13?
Suppose he'll only be 34, which isn't that old - could see him getting overtaken by a few players though, as they get older/better


My money's on Priestland being Lions 10 as well (I was right about him being Welsh 10, so I'll be right about this, just you wait and see )

 

[lynam1104]

Lions 10 is between Sexton(if he finds his kicking again) and Priestland IMO, unless any of the youngsters really stand out. BOD said he had 18 moths to 2 years left I think, perhaps he has an eye on this tour. Ginger 8 I very much doubt that 12-14 will be the same in 13' as it was in 09, there will be changes with one of them being BOD I think he will be surpassed.

 

[Aedaphon]

Agreed, BOD is a terrific centre, but 34 is pretty old to be taking part in a full tour. I'm struggling to see any stand-out distributing 12s in the British and Irish line-ups currently, which is a bit worrying.

Roberts is fantastic, but both he and Tuilagi are effectively in the team as bull dozers. If the Lions want to unleash their back three (and why wouldn't they, they've got plenty of talent in that department) Roberts/Tuilagi would probably have to be put outside centre to give a little more speed down the line. Any suggestions?

There's always the possibility of putting a 10 at 12 but defensively it's always a bit of a risk (unless you have someone that tackles like Wilkinson)

 

[psychic duck]

Lions 10 is between Sexton(if he finds his kicking again) and Priestland IMO, unless any of the youngsters really stand out. BOD said he had 18 moths to 2 years left I think, perhaps he has an eye on this tour.

don't write off Flood or even Farrell

 

[McTallshort]

All of this of course depends on players form in the next 2 years, there is no way of knowing that the young players who have made an impact in this world cup will not get injured or loose form. There could be other players that make an impact in the next 2 years that are not even on the radar yet. In a Lions team you have not just got to pick the best players in the positions but also players who can take touring in rabid media infested place like Australia for 6 weeks and still get up for playing. This might be on a back drop of losing their place in the test side or troubles back home. Its a lot easier than it used to be because the tours are shorter but you still need to take players who have another level to their mental toughness. Good international players don't always make good Lions often you need a few tough old journeymen or Young keen uncapped players to make it work.

 

[j'nuh]

Agreed, BOD is a terrific centre, but 34 is pretty old to be taking part in a full tour. I'm struggling to see any stand-out distributing 12s in the British and Irish line-ups currently, which is a bit worrying.

Roberts is fantastic, but both he and Tuilagi are effectively in the team as bull dozers. If the Lions want to unleash their back three (and why wouldn't they, they've got plenty of talent in that department) Roberts/Tuilagi would probably have to be put outside centre to give a little more speed down the line. Any suggestions?

There's always the possibility of putting a 10 at 12 but defensively it's always a bit of a risk (unless you have someone that tackles like Wilkinson)

Hook. I really wish someone would tell him he's a center/flyhalf and to stick at it. He's the master of his own demise: he's happy to play any position and that has led him to being used as a utility back, even though he's not great at 15 and needs to put more time in at 10. Whilst he's been busy playing everywhere, I think his best positions have just about been tied down by others, even though he should have done that long ago. Now he's going to France to play 10, even though he's going to have to do a lot to get past Priestland. He should be playing 13 week in, week out and try to wrestle it away from Davies. I can see a lot more bench time for him, even though he should be developing into a Lions center.

Anyway, if we play Roberts and Tuilagi, we can always use our back 3 in-field (it's what Ashton and North tend to do best) and however big Roberts/Tuilagi are, I still trust them to pass down the line when there's an overlap. I don't think we should be too worried about playing Roberts and Tuilagi together.

 

[psychic duck]

All of this of course depends on players form in the next 2 years, there is no way of knowing that the young players who have made an impact in this world cup will not get injured or loose form. There could be other players that make an impact in the next 2 years that are not even on the radar yet. In a Lions team you have not just got to pick the best players in the positions but also players who can take touring in rabid media infested place like Australia for 6 weeks and still get up for playing. This might be on a back drop of losing their place in the test side or troubles back home. Its a lot easier than it used to be because the tours are shorter but you still need to take players who have another level to their mental toughness. Good international players don't always make good Lions often you need a few tough old journeymen or Young keen uncapped players to make it work.

I agree, I can picture the Aussie media relishing getting players such as Ashton, Hartley and Haskell caught drunk and doing silly things again

 

[McTallshort]

They dont need any excuse to get stuck in and will do with relish as we saw in the last Lions tour of oz plus with players like Powell and Phillips with past history it could end in tears if the wrong players go

 

[big ginger 8]

O'Driscoll will i think at least go for his last hurrah use him sparingly in the warm-ups because it's his brain he'd be getting by on. Of course if people don't want 2 battering rams and don't think BO'D will make it McFadden is a realistic shout.

 

[Peat]

O'Driscoll will i think at least go for his last hurrah use him sparingly in the warm-ups because it's his brain he'd be getting by on. Of course if people don't want 2 battering rams and don't think BO'D will make it McFadden is a realistic shout.

Until BOD goes, McFadden won't be start 13 most provincial games, nevermind at an international level. Which is unlikely to work in his favour.

 

[McTallshort]

O'Driscoll will i think at least go for his last hurrah use him sparingly in the warm-ups because it's his brain he'd be getting by on. Of course if people don't want 2 battering rams and don't think BO'D will make it McFadden is a realistic shout.

Sorry there is no room for last hurrahs on a Lions tour you need to be ruthless in selection and you cannot carry someone who you can only use sparingly. It happened in the past with Jenkins (2001) and Greenwood (2005) and you ended up with 2 crook players who take the place of someone else.

 

[Seaton]

To be fair on Greenwood, I am sure one can name enough players to reach double figures that shouldn't really have gone on the 2005 tour. :/