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2013 British and Irish Lions

As you mention though - there does seem a situation of 'who else is there?'. Sexton is certainly going.

Possible 10's.
Rhys Priestland - Probably the least popular player in Wales at the moment.
Greig Laidlaw - Would certainly be a left field pick - hardly makes Scotland run smoothly (not that he is really to blame).
Toby Flood - Not really in inspiring form for England but I wouldn't be suprised to see him called up.
James Hook - Bench man for Wales. Can't see Gatland loving him and leaving him out constantly.
Stephen Jones - Pretty far past it now and had plenty of injuries. Managed a game yet for Wasps?
Dan Biggar - After the Samoa result I don't see him being in the Lions. Would need a very big 6 Nations.
Gavin Henson - Lol.
Freddie Burns - Arguably the most promising, but hasn't started yet for England. If he has a big game against AB's then he may get a look in.
Owen Farrell - IRB Player of the Year shortlist. Lol..
Ronan O'Gara - Very old and would be assassinated before making it onto the plane after 2009.
Johnny Wilkinson - Seems like a possibility. Old, slow and uncreative but he's still good at doing what he's always done.

A few others:
Ian Keatley - Will displace chief Ligind Radge in the Munster 10 jersey this season and is big and pacy enough to cover the entire backline from 10 onward. [He has played 10, 12 and 15 for Munster this season already and done so fairly effectively.] If I was looking a great bench option, I would look no further.
Paddy Jackson - More a specialist 10 only, he needs to show well in the HEC and possibly force Radge off the Ireland bench in the 6N to get a look in (although what are the chances of that with Deccie Kidney around?).
Duncan Weir - The man with no neck is just back from injury and would probably need to step it up quite a bit. Would need to target Laidlaw's for Scotland first... we'll see what the incoming Scotland coach thinks of him in the 6N.
Ian Madigan - His passing, running and tee-kicking are not in question. But currently not in the picture as he hasn't demonstrated any real ability to manage a game well.
JJ Hanrahan - Up and coming cub at Munster, can play 10 or 12. Again, like Keatley, if your looking for flexibility...
 
Not sure gatland will be taking too much from these AI apart from the rise of a few potential stars gilroy, shingler and launchbury pop to mind . Think the 6N will have a far bigger effect tho anyone playing in England colours yesterday or Ireland colours against Arg can't have done their chances any damage . What a difference a handful of games can make . Start of April I would say at least 10 of Wales starting team would have been in the first team probably . Now there is even more selection headaches . Glad I'm not picking the team ^^
 
Holy crap, he made a sensible comment and I agree with him!

As usual though, the Lions debate has desended into "player x was born in the same country as me so he's the best, end of" instead of discussing the merits the likely individuals.(despite valiant attempts of some members to the contrary).

Pfft, you're from England so you don't know what you're talking about.
 
Kearney, Halfpenny and Foden are all excellent players and it probably wouldn't make a huge difference which one plays but everyones gonna have a favourite. Hell you could even make a proper backthree if you wanted from them. With Kearney and Halfpenny on the wings.]/b]


Did you mean to type Foden instead of Kearney there? Very odd call otherwise.
 
Did you mean to type Foden instead of Kearney there? Very odd call otherwise.

Actually I believe rob started out his Irish career as a winger or at least played a few tests there , nonetheless when he's the best fullback we have we should just play him there .. As lions have a rake of top class wingers
 
I don't know about player selections but I think the biggest mistake the B&I Lions have made is appoint Gatland.

Sure, Wales have had success in the 6N under him but I just feel that the best players and indeed the vast majority of players in Britain and Ireland don't all know what that style would require of them and there won't be time for them to get it right off the bat and I question whether Gatland's style is the best one to take on Australia specifically in the first place.
 
I don't know about player selections but I think the biggest mistake the B&I Lions have made is appoint Gatland.

Sure, Wales have had success in the 6N under him but I just feel that the best players and indeed the vast majority of players in Britain and Ireland don't all know what that style would require of them and there won't be time for them to get it right off the bat and I question whether Gatland's style is the one to take on Australia specifically in the first place.

The Other problem is, that he shouldn't pick Welsh players for the trip to Oz, they always choke against the Ozzies.
 
The Other problem is, that he shouldn't pick Welsh players for the trip to Oz, they always choke against the Ozzies.

LOL, that has certainly been the case in 2012. You could actually say they've been showing their lack of maturity in other games as well before that; losing close games to SA and France in the RWC 2011 even while they were on top form (not to mention their loss against Aus in the 3rd place match).

Gatland will surely pick Welsh players over others if it's anything near a 50/50 call and that makes sense since he knows those players but I agree with you that it almost seems counter-intuitive to do so looking back at their track record against Aus.
 
I wouldn't know where to start selections in certain areas; loose forward, lock, fullback and even props there are a great many awesome players but no real 1st choice/certain/stand out pick and in some areas like at hooker and scrum half I'm sorry to say there isn't really anyone that gets me excited.

Aus will be at home and presumably in better shape with world XV players like Genia, JO'C and captain Pocock back and a better understanding of their own game as opposed to the Lions who only get so much chance to gel.
 
Roberts-Tuilagi as a partnership makes me want to scream. Pick one or the other, they fill the same purpose and neither is a particularly good distributor.

I would go Beck-Tuilagi/O'Driscoll FWIW.
 
Cole has got to be first in the queue for the #3 shirt.
He's the second best scrummaging tighthead, to Adam Jones, but his work in the loose is much better.
A Healy/ on form Jenkins and Cole combo would be so so good.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2
 
Don't get me wrong when I say this, Tuilagi is a beast, but do we really want a crash ball at 12 when we have huge people like North and maybe Cuthbert, maybe Bowe or H/P on the wing? I want to be able to use our backline as much as possible. Regardless he should bench if he doesn't start.

Do you guys think O'Driscoll has a chance at the starting 23?
 
Do you guys think O'Driscoll has a chance at the starting 23?
100% if injury doesn't interfere, he always has stellar lions years and we will see him play his heart out to get is place.
No other 13 has his play making skills and you can also move most other choices for 13 and Drico into 12 + Gatland has hinted he was in the running for captaining so I have no doubt he will be playing in the 15 never mind the 23
 
Don't get me wrong when I say this, Tuilagi is a beast, but do we really want a crash ball at 12 when we have huge people like North and maybe Cuthbert, maybe Bowe or H/P on the wing? I want to be able to use our backline as much as possible. Regardless he should bench if he doesn't start.

Tuilagi is developing his game into being more than a crash ball, I'm not saying hes Nonu just yet, but in the game on Sat he timed his passes brilliantly creating the two tries, and even did a couple of fancy offloads. But yeah defiantly a bench start at least.

I honestly don't know because I haven't watched any of the Wales games in full. But are North and Cuthbert still in good form at the mo?
 
I honestly don't know because I haven't watched any of the Wales games in full. But are North and Cuthbert still in good form at the mo?

Some will say no, but honestly it's completely unfair to judge either on the first 2 games at the very least. The Welsh pack were completely useless in the first two games, which meant neither winger got a sniff.

Cuthbert showed that he's got his strengths and weaknesses. He's still a great runner of the ball, but has got to make the right decisions (i.e. not run over the touchline after making a break). His defence is also nowhere near where it should be. He get's caught out of position and doesn't tackle as well as someone of his size should.

As for North. He's struggling a little for form atm, but he really did have zero chances in the two games he played. The times he did get the ball, he was confronted with 2-3 defenders and couldn't make an impact. No-one should question North's abilities imo. He's still physically almost a perfect rugby player.

I still maintain that no winger in world rugby would have done any better than North and Cuthbert in the first two games of the AI's. We'll have to judge them on the 6 nations. Hopefully the Welsh pack performs a little better and the attacking tactics are changed by then.
 
Tuilagi is developing his game into being more than a crash ball, I'm not saying hes Nonu just yet, but in the game on Sat he timed his passes brilliantly creating the two tries, and even did a couple of fancy offloads. But yeah defiantly a bench start at least.

He's easily the most potent centre in Britain. There are only a few players in the world that could have created the Chris Ashton try. And his pass to CA wasn't a difficult one, but he was going flat out, had a tacker in front of him and the pass was spot on. Seen plenty of NH players continually f_uck up basic stuff like that, so he has gone some passing ability. He's not just a big lump. I don't like it when a player is hyped up, but the way he played in the ABs game was world class.
 
100% if injury doesn't interfere, he always has stellar lions years and we will see him play his heart out to get is place.
No other 13 has his play making skills and you can also move most other choices for 13 and Drico into 12 + Gatland has hinted he was in the running for captaining so I have no doubt he will be playing in the 15 never mind the 23

I just hope he's picked on current form rather than reputation.
 
Imma give you guys my thoughts on ze Lions starting team as I try to procrastinate like a boss:

15) Right, tough call. Hogg, Kearney, Halfpenny and Foden are all very good players and could all do a job if required. They all have their relative strengths and weaknesses and most have been pointed out in this thread. Considering that we're going up against Oz I wouldn't start with Kearney. Great under the high ball, fantastic boot, not skills needed against Australia. Foden is the best attacker, but lacks versitility. However I do like the idea of having another guy who can play 9 on the pitch. Halfpenny's best asset is his goal kicking, which may come in handy should Sexton have a poor day. I don't think Hogg has the outright quality of the others, but it's always hard to assess a Scottish back when you look at what's inside him. He's certainly a good attacker and with the lack of 13's we have he may well travel on a good 6 nations.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Ben Foden (ENG)

14) Let me preface this by saying that I wont be considering the likes of Tim Visser, Richardt Strauss, etc. Not from these isles, shouldn't be Lions. That said, we still have an abundance of good wingers. While George North hasn't looked as impressive recently as he did in the earlier days of his international career his countryman Alex Cuthbert continues to impress for both club and country. Chris Ashton is a pure bread finisher who would no doubt threaten the Wallaby line while many have talked about putting Manu Tualagi out to the wing where his power game can be used to maximum ability and his lack of a distributive game wont be exposed. Tommy Bowe returned to form on the last week of the AI's while Craig Gilroy made an impressive debut. It's tough to call, but at the moment I'd have Tommy on this side and Ashton on the other. Why? Well, Tommy is a proven Lion who has done it before against Australia and is defensively solid. Ashton scores tries for fun. Come at me Welsh bro's.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Tommy Bowe (IRE)

13)
Oh yes indeed. There are pretenders. Manu Tualagi and Jonathan Davies would have you believe that the future of the outside centre is a big bosh merchant. Well boys, pretenders you will remain for this tour. Brian will start. Best distributor, excellent defender, good relationship with the coach, a good leader, experienced head, still has an eye for the try line. Considering the fact that we're going to have to opt for a big man inside in all likelyhood we need a smart 13. We have a peach of one.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Brian O'Driscoll (IRE)

12) The centres are something of a problem for us are they not? Look at our starting 12's: Brad Barritt, meh. Gordon D'arcy, yesterday's man. Someone from Scotland, ugh. Jamie Roberts. Eh, yeah that'll do. Big strong guy, works well with the 13 outside him, only 12 we have starting that's worth his salt.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Jamie Roberts (WAL)

11) See 14.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Chris Ashton (ENG)

10) Despite a world player of the year (eh?) nomination and an impressive performance against the All Blacks, Owen Farrell still has a long way to go to convince the rugby public that he's the right man to hold the 10 shirt for England, let alone the Lions. England does appear to be the land of promise in this position with Freddie Burns, George Ford, Toby Flood and the aforementioned Farrell all vying for national selection in the 6 nations. Whoever wins that battle should fancy his chances at a seat on the plane. From Scotland the pickings are yet again slim, Laidlaw isn't of the standard required. In Wales Rhys Priestland is finally being exposed for the complete mug he is, Dan Biggar was unfortunate to get crocked when he was starting to show some sustained form, James Hook seems out of consideration and.... well there's always the orange one. Anyway, long story short, give the jersey to Sexton. Top 10. The only one we have.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Johnny Sexton (IRE)

9) Another position in which we're not blessed. Mike Philips will travel, and probably start given the coach's preference for him. From Ireland neither Eoin Reddan nor Conor Murray are up to scratch, while in England Danny Care is a fine player and Ben Youngs can mix the exceptionally good with the exceptionally poor. Scotland in fairness to them have a really classy operator in Mike Blair, who should certainly tour at the very least. It's a tough one to call, they're all good, but none outstanding. I'd have Danny Care on the bench but for me that Scottish lad is the pick of them.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Mike Blair (SCO)

8) Cases can and have been made for Toby Faletau, Ben Morgan and Dave Denton. Maybe it's the patriot in me but our Jamie Heaslip stands head and shoulders above the three of them. Most complete game by far. Good on the ground, a strong carrier, decent lineout option, toured previously with distinction. Rated highly enough by management that his name has been thrown around with the captaincy. Should be nailed on for the jersey if fitness and form hold.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Jamie Healsip (IRE)

7) Tricky one. I dunno. O'Brien can do a job, as can Robshaw, but neither are out and out 7's. Tom Wood is certainly an option. The two Welsh boys will certainly be favorites, with Tipuric probably playing better but Warburton far more established. The 6 nations will no doubt decide it, but at the moment I'd say that Warburton will get the nod, like it or not.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Sam Warburton (WAL)

6) I may be less than popular for this one. Ferris and Lydiate are loved on this board. O'Brien too has a cult following. I wouldn't start any of them. If one player has screamed Lion over the past year in terms of temperament and desire it's Chris Robshaw. Yes he's made a few dodgy decisions, but he plays with his heart on his sleeve and gives 100% to every game. Stick him at 6 and watch him flourish. Just don't let him make any of the kicking calls eh?

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Chris Robshaw (ENG)

5) We're stacked in the second row. No, really, we are. Essentially you can choose any two you like out of Ryan, O'Connell, Davies, Wyn-Jones, Grey, Parling and Launchbury. The scot gets the nod at 5.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Richie Grey (SCO)

4) Again, tricky. Ryan has probably been the best of them, but Launchbury has the most potential. Big battle in the 6 nations will decide it. **** it.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Alun Wyn-Jones (WAL)

3)
Heads up Dan Cole vs Adam Jones. Both are great players. Jones is marginally better in the scrum, while Cole is much better around the park. Considering that we'll still dominate Australia in the scrum, I'm going to give it to Cole as I reckon his work in the loose will be imperative to keeping that bugger they have at 7 under wraps.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Dan Cole (ENG)

2) Short of options here. It's either Rory Best or Dylan Hartley. I don't like Hartley. I do like Best.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Rory Best (IRE)

1)What a difference a year makes. Gethin Jenkins was untouchable last season. However, a poor season thus far in France, an indifferent showing in the AI's and questions about his availability come May have cast some serious doubts on his participation. The continued excellence of Cian Healy hasn't helped either. Healy should start. Jenkins and Corbisiero to fight it out for the bench spot.

Feicarsinn's awesomely awesome verdict: Cian Healy (IRE)


So, 6 Irishmen, 4 Englishmen, 3 Welshmen and 2 Scots. Thoughts?
 

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