2012 New Zealand Squads

[Dizzy]

Imagine a Backline with Cruden, Robinson, Masanga and Nanai-williams or even three of those 4. None are over 6ft or 100kg - to me it lacks size and opposition forwards will have a lot of targets to run at.

But you're implying that they will play all four of them that's not even the case. Masaga has been around a long time and if you're going to make his height be some sort of disadvantage to him then I am dissapointed in you Larksea as he is a proven warrior. So he doesn't pose as a weakness at ALL. Cruden will play, but he's hardly a target as his defense is TOP TOP TOP notch so even implying that HIS size is a weakness for the Chiefs defense also dissapoints me.

With those two taken care of, Robinson plays Fullback and First Five... So if Crudens starting first five and Nanai-Williams is starting Fullback then Robinson will be on the bench. So the only little guy you really have to talk about is Nanai-Williams, but playing at fullack and being small is hardly a weakness as he is one of the most dangerous attacking fullbacks in NZ rugby.

 

[Dizzy]

To a point size has got absolutely nothing to do with defence, especially when you weigh in the region of 90kg. If you weigh 85kg-90kg, you should be able to tackle any one, Nanai-Williams and Robinson must be in this category.

I actually don't think Nanai-Williams is that bad on D. Might have to wait till next year to really see how good he is. He hasn't been bad at all when I have watched him.

I can't wait to see Rudi play next year, I think his ratio's might shrink a little bit myself. According to blues website he has 18 tries in 43 games, which is a ratio of slightly under 0.42, which is lower than the 0.45 (19/42) ratio you have previously stated. (http://www.theblues.co.nz/Players/130-Rudi-Wulf.aspx).
(Don't know which is more accurate, but both are still good ratio's.)

I honestly think Piri will be average at 10 next year, and I think it may ruin him. He will become a utility player and he will not be starting 9 for the AB's next year.
IMO its a silly career decision to make, he had just claimed the number 9 position as his own and now is going to throw it away.

NZ div my guess

Crusaders
Blues
Chiefs
Highlanders
Hurricanes

I think Hurricanes will play better than people are giving them credit for but will still come last. I am guessing that the table will be very even, with not many points separating the bottom 3 positions.

BOOOOO!!! Expect the unexpected!!...

Before last season everyone had written off the Highlanders except the very few Highlander fans and look what happened?..

Even though I'm shattered at what Hammett has done, I'm always gonna be a Hurricane fan and as always, I expect we shall take it out this year lol.

 

[Darwin]

I had a look through the Hurricanes team an realized it is not as bad as I first thought. It is worse. Realistically they don't really have a chance to make the playoffs this season no matter what team they put out, so I think the best idea would be to use this season to develop many of their young players. They will probably end up near the bottom of the table, but if they could keep this core of young players together they could be quite competitive in a couple of years time.

If I was the coach I'd go with the following lineup at the start of the season:

Props: May & Toomaga-Allen. I imagine Bent will start ahead of Toomaga-Allen, but I think Toomaga-Allen has far more potential at this level. Reg Goodes is very talented, but needs to be slowely introduced into the team as he is very young/inexperienced for a prop at this level (he's only 20).

Hooker: Coles. No idea why Matu'u is in the squad - he's played a few (largely anonymous) games off the bench for Wellington. I agree with others - Rob Foreman would have been a far better option. I'm actually not sure why the Canes needed a third hooker: most NZ teams only have 2 hookers in their main squad, and Reg Goodes can cover hooker in any case.

Locks: Broadhurst & Thrush.

Loosies: Lam, Lowe & Vito. Probably the best trio, but given the Canes look a bit weak in the tight-forwards they may be better of going for a 'tighter' option at 6, rather than Lam. I'm not a fan of Levave (work-rate doesn't impress me), but I do think Brad Shields could be real asset for them (I'd probably play him off the bench at the start of the season). It actually wouldn't surprise me if they start Reddish at 6 at times during the season.

Halfback: Perenara. To be honest he's probably not ready for Super Rugby yet, but he's certainly got the talent to be a world-class player, and I think he has the maturity to handle the pressure. I don't rate Smylie or Eaton - both can be a threat with ball in hand, but their distribution (what you really want from your halfback!) is poor.

First-five: Barrett. The Canes have plenty of options here (Kirkpatrick, Pisi, Barrett, even Bateman), but I think they really need to give Barrett a chance. They do have the option of playing Pisi at 10, Barrett at 15, with Jane on the wing. Assuming Pisi shows the sort of form he displayed for Samoa this year this may be a good option.

Midfield: Ngatai & Smith. I like Bateman, but his style of play is very similar to Smith's, so I'm not convinced about pairing them together. Ngatai has the talent - I think he just needs game time to fully reach his potential.

Outside backs: Taylor, Savea, Jane. I'm a big fan of Taylor - he does the basically right, and is deceptively dangerous. I actually think Leiua is still a better player at this stage than Savea, but Savea needs all the game time he can get (as he's got the potential to be a phenomenal player).

 

[donmcdazzle]

^^ Isn't it ridiculous that Reddish is even in the squad let alone likely to start some games. God I hate the hurricanes. You're right though, they need to throw the youngsters in and hope that they tread water for a while.

 

[Darwin]

^^ Isn't it ridiculous that Reddish is even in the squad let alone likely to start some games. God I hate the hurricanes. You're right though, they need to throw the youngsters in and hope that they tread water for a while.

I've actually got a wee bit of time for Reddish - he is a hard working player that does the basics reasonably well. Paired with a more dynamic lock I think he could be a solid (at best) at Super Rugby player. I think he arguably merits a spot in the squad as the 4th lock. However he is certainly not a blindside flanker (where he spent most of his time for the Canes last season) - he is a lock, and only a lock.

 

[Larksea]

But you're implying that they will play all four of them that's not even the case. Masaga has been around a long time and if you're going to make his height be some sort of disadvantage to him then I am dissapointed in you Larksea as he is a proven warrior. So he doesn't pose as a weakness at ALL. Cruden will play, but he's hardly a target as his defense is TOP TOP TOP notch so even implying that HIS size is a weakness for the Chiefs defense also dissapoints me.

With those two taken care of, Robinson plays Fullback and First Five... So if Crudens starting first five and Nanai-Williams is starting Fullback then Robinson will be on the bench. So the only little guy you really have to talk about is Nanai-Williams, but playing at fullack and being small is hardly a weakness as he is one of the most dangerous attacking fullbacks in NZ rugby.

again I think you are missing my point, I don't think height is a major problem in for one player or one position but when you have 3-4 guys in the backline at the same time who are all under 6ft or well under 6ft it can be easier for the opposition to create miss matches. I think for a back three in particular I personally wouldn't have more than one guy under 6ft/100kg in an on field combination. same reason it's maybe not a good idea to have 110kg+ 6ft3+ players on both wings.

 

[ranger]

again I think you are missing my point, I don't think height is a major problem in for one player or one position but when you have 3-4 guys in the backline at the same time who are all under 6ft or well under 6ft it can be easier for the opposition to create miss matches. I think for a back three in particular I personally wouldn't have more than one guy under 6ft/100kg in an on field combination. same reason it's maybe not a good idea to have 110kg+ 6ft3+ players on both wings.

I really think people put way too much emphasis on size. Don't look at the player, look at what they do on the field.

This defence would be absolutely impenetrable. Not one player is over 100kg or 6ft.

9)Will Genia (5'9, 85kg)
10)Jonny Wilkinson (5'10, 89kg)
11)Rudi Wulf (5'11, 91kg)
12)Sam Tuitupou (5'9, 93kg)
13)Brian O'Driscoll (5'10, 95kg)
14)Brian Lima (5'11, 97kg)
15)Josh Lewsey (5'11, 87kg)

 

[Saintjay]

again I think you are missing my point, I don't think height is a major problem in for one player or one position but when you have 3-4 guys in the backline at the same time who are all under 6ft or well under 6ft it can be easier for the opposition to create miss matches. I think for a back three in particular I personally wouldn't have more than one guy under 6ft/100kg in an on field combination. same reason it's maybe not a good idea to have 110kg+ 6ft3+ players on both wings.

Size is not every thing you know take Neil Back for England his whole job was tackling and winning the ball. He was a great player at 5'10 and 89kg. His book Size Doesn't Matter.

 

[james5000]

Size is not every thing you know take Neil Back for England his whole job was tackling and winning the ball. He was a great player at 5'10 and 89kg. His book Size Doesn't Matter.

Was he 89kg's in the 1990's? because he must have been 95kg's+ in the 2000's last I remember of him was being quite solid, maybe a bit smaller than Phil Waugh.

He must have been 89kg's in the amateur days surely haha

 

[UilamOsa]

I really think people put way too much emphasis on size. Don't look at the player, look at what they do on the field.

This defence would be absolutely impenetrable. Not one player is over 100kg or 6ft.

9)Will Genia (5'9, 85kg)
10)Jonny Wilkinson (5'10, 89kg)
11)Rudi Wulf (5'11, 91kg)
12)Sam Tuitupou (5'9, 93kg)
13)Brian O'Driscoll (5'10, 95kg)
14)Brian Lima (5'11, 97kg)
15)Josh Lewsey (5'11, 87kg)

Actually, Rugby League handles this pretty well. A good BIG man will always find a way to beat a good SMALL man.

9. Mike Phillips (6'3)
10. Quade Cooper (6'1)
11. Manu Tuilagi (6')
12. Jamie Roberts (6'3)
13. Sonny Bill Williams (6'3)
14. George North (6'4)
15. Israel Dagg (6'2)

Depending on how your offence is set, and what targets your picking size does matter. Bigger players on Smaller players usually create gaps, doubts and offloads against their opposition. BoD was barely hanging on against Roberts at the RWC (IMO)

 

[markshaw]

Nanai Williams would **** on Cooper one on one and probobly Roberts too, no offence to the Welsh memebers if you havent seen Tim Nainai check out his Youtube clips and get back to me

 

[nickdnz]

Nanai Williams would **** on Cooper one on one and probobly Roberts too, no offence to the Welsh memebers if you havent seen Tim Nainai check out his Youtube clips and get back to me

Beating Cooper in a 1-1 situation isnt a claim to fame. He's got the defense of a revolving door.

 

[UilamOsa]

Nanai Williams would **** on Cooper one on one and probobly Roberts too, no offence to the Welsh memebers if you havent seen Tim Nainai check out his Youtube clips and get back to me

Tim Nanai-Williams = Defensive liability. But dude's got skills to pay the bills.

Also, no disrespect for Timmy but if Roberts was running straight at him on a try line. Winner: Roberts.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Where did Jared Payne went to?

 

[Gavin]

Where did Jared Payne went to?

Ulster, but he injured himself a few weeks ago and is out for the season. Ruptured Achilles tendon

 

[Amobokoboko]

Cheers mate.

 

[Larksea]

No. I'm not surprised he didn't get one either, he was absolutely horrendous for Otago. He has developed an amazing ability to lose the ball whenever he takes it into contact - I used to rate him quite highly, but I hope desperately that he hasn't been signed on by Otago again next season!

Didn't really see him much for Otago.

2009 he was massive for the chiefs, he came into the squad as cover for injuries and ended up being a big factor in the chiefs run to the final. Kinda looked like he would become a super rugby regular or even push for higher level selection. Spent a lot of time out with injury though.

 

[Larksea]

I really think people put way too much emphasis on size. Don't look at the player, look at what they do on the field.

This defence would be absolutely impenetrable. Not one player is over 100kg or 6ft.

9)Will Genia (5'9, 85kg)
10)Jonny Wilkinson (5'10, 89kg)
11)Rudi Wulf (5'11, 91kg)
12)Sam Tuitupou (5'9, 93kg)
13)Brian O'Driscoll (5'10, 95kg)
14)Brian Lima (5'11, 97kg)
15)Josh Lewsey (5'11, 87kg)

there are always exceptions, players that can punch above their weight - which kinda is what those guys do but overall Size does matter and as good as that lineup looks on paper it would struggle against a well balanced lineup for 80min. Having one or two smaller nimble and fast players in the backs is an asset but (IMO) in most cases having too many is a liability. In rugby and league creating linebreaks is a lot about creating miss-matches small guy running around big guys or big guy running through/past small guy

 

[Darwin]

Didn't really see him much for Otago.

2009 he was massive for the chiefs, he came into the squad as cover for injuries and ended up being a big factor in the chiefs run to the final. Kinda looked like he would become a super rugby regular or even push for higher level selection. Spent a lot of time out with injury though.

Yeah I thought McGougan was very impressive for the Chiefs in 2009 - if I remember correctly he was called into the Junior All Blacks. Unfortunately (for Otago) he was nothing like that player this ITM Cup season - I can only assume his injuries have had a big impact on his playing ability.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Yeah I thought McGougan was very impressive for the Chiefs in 2009 - if I remember correctly he was called into the Junior All Blacks. Unfortunately (for Otago) he was nothing like that player this ITM Cup season - I can only assume his injuries have had a big impact on his playing ability.

agreed, he reminded me of when you just get the biggest bloke to play prop in low level club rugby. he had the size but never showed those extra talents you expect from a super rugby player