[2015 Super Rugby] New Zealand Squads/Pre-season Discussion

[Shaggy]

Any news on any agreements the potential All Blacks are allowed to play yet?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Any news on any agreements the potential All Blacks are allowed to play yet?

Just hearsay really.

It's expected that most (major?) All Blacks will miss the first round, and will likely have to miss another two or three matches during the season (dates at the individual coaches' discretion).

I believe Sam Whitelock and Kieran Read have extra matches written into their contracts too.

 

[inteNZity]

I'd rather Emery than Buckman - he had the second most line breaks in the whole ITM (behind team mate Milner-Skudder), and was pretty solid defensively. Add to that he is a specialist centre whereas Buckman is more of a utility outside back. I think Fekitoa and Emery could be a pretty dangerous combo if given some time together.

Mind you Joseph will probably start Treeby, and give Emery 5 minutes off the bench on the wing.

been a big fan of emery, would like to see him at 2nd 5 with Fekitoa at centre, at Super 15 level the ability to get the ball wide is the asset, he is creative and makes line breaks, im not suggesting he is an international 2nd 5 but would serve the highlanders well at 2nd 5.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Sadly it looks like Nathan Harris is not going to feature in the World Cup next year, his surgery means he will be out for six months and he's been replaced in the Chiefs squad by none other than Hika Elliot.

As both a Chiefs and NZ supporter this is very disappointing news. I was looking forward to seeing Harris and Marshall fighting it out for the Chiefs #2 jersey next season. This opens this door once again for a third hooker.

 

[Mikel92]

The Crusaders team looks pretty good. But it always does, I just hope we can produce results. The main thing that has to change for me is the backline play. Side to side to sidehas to end. Games I have lost count of where we do that and go nowhere. Patience, yes. But we actually need to make meters. And we need a few guys who can do that. It's good to see Fruean back, he made some awesome breaks for Hawkes Bay. Hopefully he finds even more form. Blackadder has had a good run with this team, and while he has taken us close a few times, there hs been a lot of disappointment. Unless he wins us a ***le next year, I would suggest he be leaving, Though he probably plans to anyway. We better hope we don't start too slow, otherwise we'll be pushing our luck. Tough games to end the season against the Tahs, Blues and Brumbies (away games for us).

Not sure if this has been posted but apparently the Crusaders might be facing off against Fiji? The clash against the Hurricanes will be interrupted by the Under 20-Football world cup in Chch hence the Fiji game, possibly in Suva.

Not convinced you'll see a Slade-10/Carter-12 combo all the way through. I'm kinda expecting Slade to hop on the wing or even fullback at some stage. Otherwise it's hard to see how Crotty will fit in. I presume Fruean will be the starter at 13. Dagg might thrive a bit more on the wing? Less responsibility (last line of defence, crucial tackles, being much more strategic back there).

 

[Kiwi_Bloke_In_Perth]

Chris Boyd deserves fans to have an open mind about him.

He had better get going real quick cause after coaching the Lions to relegation and the Championship he has no real leeway with the Hurricanes.

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As a Chiefs fan I just cant wait for next season to start. Stunning back line . Cruden will be supported by Marty McKenzie who had a great campaign for Taranaki. Hika Elliot has also been given the go ahead to resume Super duties , he has been drafted in due to Nathan Harris injury. No room for Robbie Fruean due to Seta Tamanivalu and SBW arriving.

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Just hearsay really.

It's expected that most (major?) All Blacks will miss the first round, and will likely have to miss another two or three matches during the season (dates at the individual coaches' discretion).

I believe Sam Whitelock and Kieran Read have extra matches written into their contracts too.

Stupid with this rest thing. The All Blacks are professionals and should play all rounds of Super rugby if fit. Missing the first round will have no effect whatsoever 8 months down the track. Can you see the clubs in Europe saying their test players can rest in for the first couple of club rugby rounds due it being a world cup year ? Not a snowballs chance in hell. The this rest thing has had no influence on world cup form EVER.

 

[nickdnz]

Stupid with this rest thing. The All Blacks are professionals and should play all rounds of Super rugby if fit. Missing the first round will have no effect whatsoever 8 months down the track. Can you see the clubs in Europe saying their test players can rest in for the first couple of club rugby rounds due it being a world cup year ? Not a snowballs chance in hell. The this rest thing has had no influence on world cup form EVER.

Has NH's approach to club rugby ever prompted success at international level?

 

[Mikel92]

Stupid with this rest thing. The All Blacks are professionals and should play all rounds of Super rugby if fit. Missing the first round will have no effect whatsoever 8 months down the track. Can you see the clubs in Europe saying their test players can rest in for the first couple of club rugby rounds due it being a world cup year ? Not a snowballs chance in hell. The this rest thing has had no influence on world cup form EVER.

I realize this is a forum where informal chats happen, but without a medical background or degree then I'm pretty sure none of us would know that as a fact. Logically though, with the amount of rugby played these days I would have thought every 'rest' game counts. Give the opening two games a miss for example, that's under three hours of intensity missed. A lot of these games are played at International level physicality at times. Burn out is a real thing, both physically and mentally. McCaw for example has the biggest responsibility in the country. I don't think we want his life to be rugby, rugby, rugby. It's not healthy. Fly a plane, catch a fish, keep the mind and body fresh.

 

[inteNZity]

I would be keen to see Fruean at 2nd 5 and Crotty at centre, the crusaders need a big man in the middle for the forwards to work off, haven't had one since SBW left. Start with Fruean at 12 then move Carter to 12 and Slade on to 10 as the game goes on. Frueans best chance of AB's is as a 12 with a power game, his defence is sound, he would manage that channel like Ma'a does. cheers

 

[Larksea]

Fruen's defense is nowhere near sound and wont be anywhere the All Blacks anytime soon because of it. when he's looked to have fixed his defense in the past it's only ever been temporary. Often he's fine tackling 1 on 1 but when he has to cover or do anything tricky he tends to just not tackle anything.

 

[Mikel92]

Not sure if you'll see Fruean at 12. I think it'll be the latter option you pointed out, Intenzity. Word out there is they want to accommodate Slade at 10 regularly, so I'm guessing Carter will slot to 12 and they'll probably keep Fruean at 13 to...as you say, add some power. Which we really need. Apart from Nandolo, there's been too many skinny white guys running from side to side in our backline for last few years. It's really harmed us.

 

[ENZED-88]

I would be keen to see Fruean at 2nd 5 and Crotty at centre, the crusaders need a big man in the middle for the forwards to work off, haven't had one since SBW left. Start with Fruean at 12 then move Carter to 12 and Slade on to 10 as the game goes on. Frueans best chance of AB's is as a 12 with a power game, his defence is sound, he would manage that channel like Ma'a does. cheers

Fruean has a lot of ground to make up before he even gets a sniff at a AB Jersey.
@kiwi bloke... What in the world makes you want to copy the NH teams?( are you an aussie in disguise?)

 

[Mikel92]

Well IMO I wouldn't say the Crusaders have a perfect draw for next year, but we probably have the best for Kiwi teams. Certainly better than the Blues and Chiefs, and probably on par with the Highlanders. The first three weeks will be important for us. Rebels at home, and Chiefs + Highlanders away. I'd expect to get at least two wins out of that, and one bonus point. If we can do that we really help ourselves. After our bye in Week 4 we can't relax, but at least the Crusaders have an array of home games against our Kiwi counterparts and some SA fodder. We really need to pick up a couple of wins first up at least, then nail it in the middle of the season. Towards the last 4 weeks all of our games are away, including against the Waratahs. I wouldn't say by any stretch it'll be easy for us, but we have a better draw than some. Including home games against the Lions, Cheetahs and Rebels. When those three are at home they can be banana skins, but we should be collecting bonus points from all of those games.

Being at 12 should help Carter find his feet. Still a lot of thinking required at 12, but at least you aren't so much in the forefront of receivership. It'll be interesting. We really need Fruean and Carter to settle back in so our backline is half decent again. If they lumber throughout 2015 then it'll be the same crap.

 

[inteNZity]

Fruen's defense is nowhere near sound and wont be anywhere the All Blacks anytime soon because of it. when he's looked to have fixed his defense in the past it's only ever been temporary. Often he's fine tackling 1 on 1 but when he has to cover or do anything tricky he tends to just not tackle anything.

As Nonu showed, 12 and 13 are different roles, have different lines in defence and attack. Im not saying for certain as im not the coach but as you say Fruen gets lost at centre, perhaps the move in to 2nd would simplify things as it did for Nonu, also he would be inside Crotty who could organise him as Conrad Smith did for Nonu. Just an idea... and as far as the AB's go, after the WC its a whole new ball game, Nonu and SBW will likely go, if Fekitoa is played at centre, we will be looking for a big man to run hard, sound like anyone we know.

 

[Regan]

Not wanting to sound bias (Canes faithful - it's hard sometimes) but our team on paper, without any injuries is bloody strong. So strong I would be confident enough to say it was the best. Of course injuries will happen, the game isn't played on paper and that's why we have the comp! For our sake I hope we can fire immediately - which is unfortunately on the road in South Africa and injuries are limited.

That's an All Blacks backline right there (minus Woodward). So I'm expecting plenty of tries - for us

 

[Mikel92]

Not wanting to sound bias (Canes faithful - it's hard sometimes) but our team on paper, without any injuries is bloody strong. So strong I would be confident enough to say it was the best. Of course injuries will happen, the game isn't played on paper and that's why we have the comp! For our sake I hope we can fire immediately - which is unfortunately on the road in South Africa and injuries are limited.

That's an All Blacks backline right there (minus Woodward). So I'm expecting plenty of tries - for us

Haha, yeah point taken. Although I think just about all the Kiwi teams could say that just a pitty it doesn't always transfer from looking good on paper to actual points. Auckland is the classic example. And when I think of the Crusaders, there is usually 12 current or past All Blacks. On that alone you'd wonder "how could they possibly lose" haha. But definitely, the Hurricanes showed some amazing form this year. It was special because it was a general theme of the season for them, and not just a "good one week, ****ing horrendous the next."

 

[nickdnz]

Not wanting to sound bias (Canes faithful - it's hard sometimes) but our team on paper, without any injuries is bloody strong. So strong I would be confident enough to say it was the best. Of course injuries will happen, the game isn't played on paper and that's why we have the comp! For our sake I hope we can fire immediately - which is unfortunately on the road in South Africa and injuries are limited.

That's an All Blacks backline right there (minus Woodward). So I'm expecting plenty of tries - for us

Unfortunately the Hurricanes always have a brilliant backline. Our starting team looks promising (although I wouldn't say best) - but what always annoys me is the deadwood we also pick up - so we always struggle with depth. Why do we have Christian Lloyd, Chris Eves, Ray Lee-Lo? With Chris Boyd as coach I'm not convinced if the Hurricanes had every All Black available to them that they would make the playoffs..

 

[Mikel92]

Yeah I'd be a bit concerned about Boyd. His results with the Lions this year were atrocious. He's had okay-ish results with the Sharks and under 20's. A couple of finals and semi finals, but no championship wins in those areas. But I don't get the sense hes a coach to really lift a team in a way that Gatland, Rennie or Schmidt would do.

 

[Regan]

Unfortunately the Hurricanes always have a brilliant backline. Our starting team looks promising (although I wouldn't say best) - but what always annoys me is the deadwood we also pick up - so we always struggle with depth. Why do we have Christian Lloyd, Chris Eves, Ray Lee-Lo? With Chris Boyd as coach I'm not convinced if the Hurricanes had every All Black available to them that they would make the playoffs..

Yeah I'm gritting my teeth with Boyd a bit - not a fan, not after that woeful Welly season - I watched every game and felt like I should have been paid a wage.

Lloyd and Eves meh but Lee-Lo actually looked good for us 2 years back. Why he went down to the Saders I'll never know - he was never going to really get much game time there. So I'll wait and see on him, he's shown promise in the past and if he can get back to the level he was at with us a few years a go, we have a handy reserve.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

These next couple months, we'll see if DC is ready for ABs and WC, but surely when fit and confident DC eclipses > Cruden > Barret > Slade > Taylor kicking prowess. At this very moment Cruden (my opinion is NZ best No. 10 at the moment) his kicking has been woeful for the whole year, just like Barret, however Slade been slotting them in easily, as we'll see if DC has got it in him, the NZ public still thinks he got, Steve Hansen still thinks he got it, only time will tell.