[2015 Super Rugby] New Zealand Squads/Pre-season Discussion

[Kiwiwomble]

Highlanders full squad

Forwards
Kane Hames, Pingi Tala'apitaga, Ma'afu Fia, Ross Geldenhuys, Josh Hohneck, Brendon Edmonds, Liam Coltman, Ash Dixon, Tom Franklin, Joe Wheeler, Alex Ainley, Mark Reddish, Dan Pryor, Gareth Evans, John Hardie, Shane Christie, Nasi Manu, Elliot Dixon
Backs
Aaron Smith, Fumiaki Tanaka, Marty Banks, Lima Sopoaga, Hayden Parker, Trent Renata, Shaun Treeby, Jason Emery, Malakai Fekitoa, Richard Buckman, Waisake Naholo, Patrick Osborne, Ben Smith, Kurt Baker
Wider Training Group
Sam Anderson-Heather, Joe Latta, Lee Allan, Josh Renton, Tei Walden, Ryan Tongia

with guys like Thompson and Gear back i really feel we've missed a trick, there aren't many names there that will have team shaking in their boots. Seems to be a cycle with Joesph, either a strong backline or a strong forward pack, cant seem to get both. looking at a year of skilled backs either sitting on the bench (baker, emery) or getting back foot ball

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The 2015 Blues squad is:

Forwards: Josh Bekhuis (Southland), Luke Braid (Auckland), Joe Edwards (Auckland), Charlie Faumuina (Auckland), Blake Gibson (Auckland), Jerome Kaino (Auckland, captain), Will Lloyd (Auckland), Steven Luatua (Auckland), Keven Mealamu (Auckland), Matt Moulds (Northland), Brendon O’Connor (Hawkes Bay), James Parsons (North Harbour), Greg Pleasants-Tate (North Harbour), Sam Prattley (Auckland), Culum Retallick (Bay of Plenty), Peter Saili (Auckland), Angus Ta’avao (Taranaki), Hayden Triggs (North Harbour), Patrick Tuipulotu (Auckland), Ofa Tu’ungafasi (Auckland), Tony Woodcock (North Harbour).

Backs: Pita Ahki (North Harbour), Dan Bowden (Northland), Jimmy Cowan (Tasman), Jamison Gibson-Park (Taranaki), Frank Halai (Counties Manukau), Bryn Hall (North Harbour), Simon Hickey (Auckland), Ben Lam (Auckland), Tevita Li (North Harbour), George Moala (Auckland), Melani Nanai (Auckland), Hamish Northcott (Manawatu), Charles Piutau (Auckland), Francis Saili (Auckland), Matt Vaega (North Harbour), Lolagi Visinia (Auckland), Ihia West (Hawkes Bay).

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Double post...

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Here are all the squads for next season:

 

[nickdnz]

I didn't realize that Jone Macila had been picked up by the Crusaders!

That's pretty exciting as I thought he looked a very exciting talent in this ITM Cup.

With Osbourne, Nadolo, Naholo, Macila and Tamanivalu around, Fijian wingers/centres seem to be making a comeback for NZ teams. I know someone who will be happy..

 

[dasNdanger]

Crusaders:

Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Joe Moody, Tim Perry, Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Ben Funnell, Codie Taylor, Ged Robinson, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Dominic Bird, Jimmy Tupou, Scott Barrett, Luke Whitelock, Richie McCaw, Matt Todd, Kieran Read, Jordan Taufua.


Backs:Andy Ellis, Willi Heinz, Mitchell Drummond, Daniel Carter, Colin Slade, Tom Taylor, Kieran Fonotia, Ryan Crotty, Robbie Fruean, Nemani Nadolo, Jone Macilai, Johnny McNicholl, Nafi Tuitavake, Israel Dagg.


Wider training squad: Richie Mo'unga, David Havili, Nathaniel Apa, Alex Hodgman, Tom Sanders, Jed Brown

(Just easier for me to read it this way than from the chart)

Hoping this will spice the team up a bit. I've always leaned towards being a 'Saders fan, and I have to say that I was very disappointed in their showing this year - a very slow start, and then they seemed to tire at the end. Maybe next year will be better.


das

 

[Darwin]

Given the majority of the squads are all but confirmed before they are officially announced these "announcements" are nowhere near as exciting as they used to be.

A few thoughts on the squads...

Highlanders
- Only two hookers in the main squad. Where is Brayden Mitchell? I'm not that worried about his absence - he's solid rather than spectacular - but I'm surprised he isn't rated in the top 15 hookers in the country. I've got a lot of time for Anderson-Heather, and I'm sure he will do a good job if required.
- Good to see Latta in the WTG, though I would prefer him over Ainley and Reddish in the main squad....
- No TJ Ioane. I'm happy about this. I was starting to accept him for Otago / the Highlanders, but he reverted to his old error-prone ways for Otago this season, so I'm happy to see he has missed out.
- Only two halfbacks. I'm delighted to see Frae Wilson gone. To be honest Renton isn't any better at this stage of his career, but at least he's from the region, and is young (20) and promising.
- I'm not sure whether we need Trent Renata in the squad? He's been ok for the Highlanders in the past, but he's probably the 5th best fullback available (behind Smith, Baker, Buckman, and Banks), and the 4th best first-five (behind Sopoaga, Banks, and Parker).
- Why does Kurt Baker continue to be picked for the Highlanders? I actually think he has the potential to be a good Super Rugby player, but given Joseph refuses to play him what's the point of him taking up a squad position?
- Walden and Tongia are good additions to the wtg. Tongia in particular has some talent, he's just got to work on his positioning, work-rate, and defense - hopefully he learns a lot from the likes of Ben Smith and the Barracuda.....

Crusaders
- Forwards are incredibly predictable. They are perhaps a loose-forward short in the main squad, but both Barrett and Tupou can cover 6 (in fact Tupou is arguably better at 6), and Sanders and Brown are pretty good back-up options too.
- Macilai is a fantastic pick-up. He should be starting IMO. Tuitavake however...... I can't see how he gets a contract to be honest. He's got a good step, but lacks out-right pace, and is a completely liability in defense. You can guarantee he will drift in-field off his wings at least 2-3 times a games leaving the opposition wing with a free line-break out wide. Surely someone like Joe Webber would be an infinitely better option...
- The Crusaders could do will some fullback cover for when Dagg has his usual run of poor form. Taylor is a hopeless fullback, and Slade will probably be playing 10 (with Carter injured / at 12). Mo'unga and Havili do provide some cover I suppose, but I'm not sure either are quite ready for Super Rugby level yet.
Perhaps someone like Robbie Malneek would be a useful here....

I will go through the rest of the teams later when I have some more time....

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Crusaders:

Forwards: Wyatt Crockett, Joe Moody, Tim Perry, Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Ben Funnell, Codie Taylor, Ged Robinson, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Dominic Bird, Jimmy Tupou, Scott Barrett, Luke Whitelock, Richie McCaw, Matt Todd, Kieran Read, Jordan Taufua.


Backs:Andy Ellis, Willi Heinz, Mitchell Drummond, Daniel Carter, Colin Slade, Tom Taylor, Kieran Fonotia, Ryan Crotty, Robbie Fruean, Nemani Nadolo, Jone Macilai, Johnny McNicholl, Nafi Tuitavake, Israel Dagg.


Wider training squad: Richie Mo'unga, David Havili, Nathaniel Apa, Alex Hodgman, Tom Sanders, Jed Brown

(Just easier for me to read it this way than from the chart)

Hoping this will spice the team up a bit. I've always leaned towards being a 'Saders fan, and I have to say that I was very disappointed in their showing this year - a very slow start, and then they seemed to tire at the end. Maybe next year will be better.


das

Das, the 'Saders ALWAYS start slow. Usually they are near unstoppable at the end but I've made many a head start on fantasy tipping competitions by backing their early opponents no matter how unlikely the loss seems.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Top lineups are a bit hard to do now. There are so many injuries and rested players that rotation is so common. Regardless, below are what I think will be the top lineups for Round 1 (if everyone was available).

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Blues[/TD]
[TD]Chiefs[/TD]
[TD]Hurricanes[/TD]
[TD]Crusaders[/TD]
[TD]Highlanders[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Woodcock[/TD]
[TD]Manu[/TD]
[TD]Franks[/TD]
[TD]Crockett[/TD]
[TD]Hames[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Mealamu[/TD]
[TD]Harris[/TD]
[TD]Coles[/TD]
[TD]Funnell[/TD]
[TD]Dixon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Faumuina[/TD]
[TD]Tameifuna[/TD]
[TD]Toomaga-Allen[/TD]
[TD]Franks[/TD]
[TD]Fia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Tuipulotu[/TD]
[TD]Retallick[/TD]
[TD]Thrush[/TD]
[TD]Romano[/TD]
[TD]Franklin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Bekhuis[/TD]
[TD]Fitzgerald[/TD]
[TD]Broadhurst[/TD]
[TD]Whitelock[/TD]
[TD]Wheeler[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Luatua[/TD]
[TD]Messam[/TD]
[TD]Shields[/TD]
[TD]McCaw[/TD]
[TD]Dixon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Braid[/TD]
[TD]Cane[/TD]
[TD]Savea[/TD]
[TD]Todd[/TD]
[TD]Christie[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Kaino[/TD]
[TD]Squire[/TD]
[TD]Vito[/TD]
[TD]Read[/TD]
[TD]Manu[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Hall[/TD]
[TD]Pulu[/TD]
[TD]Perenara[/TD]
[TD]Ellis[/TD]
[TD]Smith[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]West[/TD]
[TD]Cruden[/TD]
[TD]Barrett[/TD]
[TD]Carter[/TD]
[TD]Sopoaga[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]Moala[/TD]
[TD]Gear[/TD]
[TD]Savea[/TD]
[TD]Nadolo[/TD]
[TD]Osborne[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Saili[/TD]
[TD]Williams[/TD]
[TD]Nonu[/TD]
[TD]Crotty[/TD]
[TD]Treeby[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Ahki[/TD]
[TD]Ngatai[/TD]
[TD]Smith[/TD]
[TD]Fruean[/TD]
[TD]Fekitoa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Visinia[/TD]
[TD]Lowe[/TD]
[TD]Jane[/TD]
[TD]McNicholl[/TD]
[TD]Buckman[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Piutau[/TD]
[TD]Marshall[/TD]
[TD]Woodward[/TD]
[TD]Dagg[/TD]
[TD]Smith[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Parsons[/TD]
[TD]Marshall[/TD]
[TD]Matu'u[/TD]
[TD]Taylor[/TD]
[TD]Coltman[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]Tu'ungafasi[/TD]
[TD]Mackintosh[/TD]
[TD]Schwalger[/TD]
[TD]Moody[/TD]
[TD]Geldenhuys[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Ta'avao[/TD]
[TD]Graham[/TD]
[TD]Goodes[/TD]
[TD]Laulala[/TD]
[TD]Hohneck[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]Triggs[/TD]
[TD]Symons[/TD]
[TD]Abbott[/TD]
[TD]Bird[/TD]
[TD]Reddish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]O'Connor[/TD]
[TD]Polwart[/TD]
[TD]Thompson[/TD]
[TD]Taufua[/TD]
[TD]Evans[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]Cowan[/TD]
[TD]Weber[/TD]
[TD]Smylie[/TD]
[TD]Heinz[/TD]
[TD]Tanaka[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]Bowden[/TD]
[TD]Nanai-Williams[/TD]
[TD]Marshall[/TD]
[TD]Slade[/TD]
[TD]Banks[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]Halai[/TD]
[TD]Tamanivalu[/TD]
[TD]Milner-Skudder[/TD]
[TD]Macilai[/TD]
[TD]Naholo[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

Like I said, given how long the season is it's unlikely we'll see these teams often, if ever, but it's fun to speculate.

The Chiefs have to fit SBW, Ngatai, Horrell and Tamanivalu into the centres, so we'll see a lot of rotation there!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

[TABLE="width: 153"]
<colgroup><col><col></colgroup><tbody>[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Highlanders[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Hames[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Dixon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Fia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Franklin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Wheeler[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Evans[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Christie[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Manu[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Smith[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Sopoaga[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]Osborne[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]Fekitoa[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]Buckman[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]Naholo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]Smith[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]Coltman[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]Geldenhuys[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]Hohneck[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]Reddish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]Dixon[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]Tanaka[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]Banks[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]Baker[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



not bad on paper more than a couple of injuries and things get dodgy fast

 

[donmcdazzle]

I'd rather Emery than Buckman - he had the second most line breaks in the whole ITM (behind team mate Milner-Skudder), and was pretty solid defensively. Add to that he is a specialist centre whereas Buckman is more of a utility outside back. I think Fekitoa and Emery could be a pretty dangerous combo if given some time together.

Mind you Joseph will probably start Treeby, and give Emery 5 minutes off the bench on the wing.

 

[dasNdanger]

Das, the 'Saders ALWAYS start slow. Usually they are near unstoppable at the end but I've made many a head start on fantasy tipping competitions by backing their early opponents no matter how unlikely the loss seems.

I know they do, but this year seemed different to me. They started out slow, and then rose to a comfy, mediocre level where they pretty much stayed the rest of the season. As I recall (my memory isn't that fantastic, so I might be wrong), it seemed like some games were won out of sheer luck and they seemed to struggle for the wins they got. In a way the 'Saders have reflected recent ABs contests in which the men in black appear to be having a harder time getting a win on the pitch.


das

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I'd rather Emery than Buckman - he had the second most line breaks in the whole ITM (behind team mate Milner-Skudder), and was pretty solid defensively. Add to that he is a specialist centre whereas Buckman is more of a utility outside back. I think Fekitoa and Emery could be a pretty dangerous combo if given some time together.

Mind you Joseph will probably start Treeby, and give Emery 5 minutes off the bench on the wing.

I guess I would go with buckman based on defence, think he did a great job shutting down the wing and I think he could do the same in midfield, we've been ripped open through the midfield in the past

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I'm quite looking forward to seeing the Chiefs backline that runs out for their first competition game next season.

Potentially both Cruden and SBW could be given the week off, in which case we would probably see a backline of Pulu, M McKenzie, Lowe, Ngatai, Tamanivalu, Nanai-Williams, Horrell.

 

[nickdnz]

I'm quite looking forward to seeing the Chiefs backline that runs out for their first competition game next season.

Potentially both Cruden and SBW could be given the week off, in which case we would probably see a backline of Pulu, M McKenzie, Lowe, Ngatai, Tamanivalu, Nanai-Williams, Horrell.

Quite possibly Hosea Gear instead of Lowe .

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Quite possibly Hosea Gear instead of Lowe .

I figure Gear won't be back from Japan by then, not certain though! I think Lowe is invaluable as he has a fantastic punt on him.

 

[Darwin]

I'd rather Emery than Buckman - he had the second most line breaks in the whole ITM (behind team mate Milner-Skudder), and was pretty solid defensively. Add to that he is a specialist centre whereas Buckman is more of a utility outside back. I think Fekitoa and Emery could be a pretty dangerous combo if given some time together.

Mind you Joseph will probably start Treeby, and give Emery 5 minutes off the bench on the wing.

By 'pretty solid defensively' you mean Emery isn't a complete liability in defense as he has been in the past? If so I agree - he has made some major improvements in defense this season from what I've seen - but I still think it is a bit of a weakness in his game. For the same reasons as Jabby I would love to see Buckman in the midfield. He is brutal on defense. Our midfield defense has been a major issue for a number of years - playing Buckman alongside Fekitoa could turn it into a real weapon. Fekitoa is still a work in progress on defense positionally, and has a habit of running out of the line. This wouldn't be as much of an issue with Buckman outside him as he is a good organizer on defense, and is very fast out of the line on defense himself. If they could get their timing right (which may take some time to perfect) they would be a very intimidating combination on defense. While Buckman may not be a specialist centre I think it is the position that best suits his skill-set, and he has played plenty of rugby in the 13 jersey (he spent the entire 2013 season for HB at centre).

In saying all that I am very excited about the possibility of a Fekitoa/Emery combination too. Potentially they could be as dangerous as any midfield in the competition, but I still think Emery needs some more work on defense. A Fekitoa/Emery midfield with Buckman on the wing (possible defending in the midfield at times) would be another option too I suppose.

Like you I suspect we may see very little of either of these combination, with Joseph sure to favour Treeby. Treeby will do a solid job - he will make his tackles and run good lines - but if the Highlanders want to get to the next level they need a bit more in the midfield IMO (I would be happy with either Buckman or Emery starting to be honest).


Anyways.... a few thoughts on the Hurricanes

- Picking only two hookers in the main squad is a bit of a risk when you WTG hooker is still a child.
- Do the Canes really need 5 specialist locks considering Thomson is also able to cover lock? Cridge was signed some time ago but I still can't understand it (he was average at U20 level and couldn't even crack the Hawke's Bay side this season). It is good to see LLoyd there though. He's has a lot of injury problems, but he looked very good for Wellington when he got on the park this season.
- I'm not sure what the Canes selectors see in Iopu-Aso, but I'm looking forward to finding out. I'm not a fan of picking children in the WTG either - surely players in the WTG should be ready to play Super Rugby if required?
- Frae Wilson. Thanks for taking him off our hands. He was behind Rangihuna at Wellington this season, and someone like Kane Hammington would have been a far better option than him IMO.
- So instead of picking Marty Banks they chose to pick..... no-one. James Marshall played well for Taranaki this season, but when was the last time he even played in the 10 jersey? He seems to have flourished at fullback. Obviously Marshall's lack of goal-kicking ability won't be an issue if Woodward is on the park.
- Plenty of midfield cover. It will be interesting to see how Halaholo goes if given a chance.
- Likewise there is plenty of talent out-wide. Obviously you would expect Savea and Jane to start on the wing, but I don't think there is much between Woodward, Proctor, and Milner-Skudder in terms of fullback options (apart from obviously experience at Super Rugby level). I'm glad the rumor that Ambrose Curtis had been given a contract turned out to be incorrect!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Been thinking about the Chiefs back line (perhaps dreaming is more apt a description though).

I'd imagine well see more rotation next year, though perhaps not as much as this year. Regardless, if it were me we'd be fielding a lineup of:

9 Weber
10 Cruden
11 Gear
12 Williams
13 Ngatai
14 Lowe
15 Horrell
21 Pulu
22 Tamanivalu
23 Nanai-Williams

That back line has the right combination of speed, power and skill. Cruden is not a great punter, with Lowe and Horrell you've got two good punters who can help him out. Gear and SBW can both be used for getting some good penetrative in the midfield (among other thing), and Lowe and Gear have enough pace to make some good yardage on the wings. Cruden, Ngatai and Horrell are all very good distributors (I think Horrell is one of the best quick passers in the competition) and in Cruden and SBW you have some good skilful ball players. I think Weber is a better starting halfback than Pulu is, Pulu offers a lot more as an impact sub. Likewise, Tamanivalu and Nanai-Williams will be very effective running at tired defences.

That still leaves out guys like Marshall and Heem, who will no doubt see a lot of game time too!

 

[turmeric2015]

Fish, I recall seeing Coach Rennie on TV shortly after Taranaki won the ITM cup and he said Tamanivalu would be starting....

As you say, there will be rotation, but I'm wondering if the combo might be SBW & Tamanivalu, with Ngatai at FB for the first game of the season? Either way stacked with talent!!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Fish, I recall seeing Coach Rennie on TV shortly after Taranaki won the ITM cup and he said Tamanivalu would be starting....

As you say, there will be rotation, but I'm wondering if the combo might be SBW & Tamanivalu, with Ngatai at FB for the first game of the season? Either way stacked with talent!!

I believe a reporter asked if Tamanivalu could be starting, and Rennie responded with a resounding yes. That shows that he definitely would have faith in him to start, but I don't think it necessarily indicates that he will definitely be there in the midfield.

That being said, for the first match or two I'd be surprised if SBW was available - in which case it would likely be a Ngatai/Tamanivalu combo. If SBW is available I'd opt for the lineup I had above. I think Horrell will be on the field mainly because Marty McKenzie is not a good enough goalkicker to be taking the shots, so Horrell would be invaluable.