[2018 6 Nations] Round 5 : England v Ireland (17/03/2018)

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Elliot Daly confirmed Owen Farrell as my favourite English player yesterday for me. He pushed and mouthed off to Ringrose, respect your superiors Elliot!

Prob blinded by his brilliance and thought he was James Haskell......

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

But England shouldn't need a regional system.
If England can't support 12 teams then may BOD help us all.
It isn't like Ireland teams don't play games without internationals.

Here an idea simple idea make all academy products outside the cap for that one club regardless of being an England international or not, give the academy players a proper pathway and make the clubs play them in the prem for 2 months of the season.
Clubs can ***** and moan about being punished for producing England players but if they produced them by themselves they could have the cap to bring in cover and if they brought in an England player from elsewhere then tough **** you pinch a player from another prem club academy system and you shouldn't get the extra help. Just my 2 cents.

RE Cov Wasps i hate them.

i'm 100% club over country, but If england is successful more people will watch and play Rugby than if tigers was successful.

Yes to everything there. **** cov wasps especially.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

i'm 100% club over country, but If england is successful more people will watch and play Rugby than if tigers was successful.

See, I am the opposite for me country (test rugby) trumps club because the former is the pinnacle of the sport. But then I am not tied to any club. But agree with you following point that if the international side is successful it filters down. In your case the Tigers.

It’s one of the reasons I turned off of Wendyball and turned to Rugby: the demise or one may argue the continual undermining of the England football team by the Premiership and utter spinelessness of the FA. I can see it happening in this country and France as club rugby taking precedence over country and flogging their players at the expense of the Test side.

 

[j'nuh]

The whole league structure over here is a ******* mess.

All levels of rugby would be better off using a system based off the NFL/NZ structure.

I genuinely think almost every single element of English/UK rugby could be improved with an overhaul.

I disagree. Any attempt to reduce the league will mean fewer rounds of rugby which will mean less money for clubs which means reduced salaries and Top14 suddenly threatens English rugby.

Limiting club exposure of internationals without any compensation scheme will be resisted because no club is going to want to pay full whack for a player they can't use for half the year... for the same price would you rather Daly for half a year or Beale for the full year?

The simple answer is... if we want to substantially reduce the playing time of internationals and ensure clubs continue to see having internationals as good value, then the RFU is going to need to take on more of the salary bill and internationals will have to be outside the salary cap. My preference would be to have a combination of central contracts and a draft process. Each club having three internationals all outside the cap and half paid for by the RFU would be fair.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I disagree. Any attempt to reduce the league will mean fewer rounds of rugby which will mean less money for clubs which means reduced salaries and Top14 suddenly threatens English rugby.

Limiting club exposure of internationals without any compensation scheme will be resisted because no club is going to want to pay full whack for a player they can't use for half the year... for the same price would you rather Daly for half a year or Beale for the full year?

The clubs wouldn't really have international players, whatever tier is introduced above club rugby will; be it Regions or Franchises.

Similar to NCAA --> NFL and NPC--> SR.

Clubs keep their players for their entire season, and their best players make the jump to the senior tier as and when....
The elite tier of teams organise their season so that there isn't a conflict with internationals, which means they get full uninterrupted domestic seasons too.

That system also means you can properly implement some sort of draft, if it's deemed desirable.

I can't see how you could implement a feasible draft system in the current structure.

 

[Amiga500]

Not sure the central contract system would work in England.

Then you'd have the coaches having to pick fellas that are out of form or well off the best in their position, because one has a central contract, the other doesn't.

I don't know what the fix is*, but I think it'll need to be a something we haven't seen to date.


*well, actually I do. The RFU would have to buy all the clubs and run them as semi-independent branches. But no chance of that happening. Ever.

 

[MarkyH]

Coventry Rugby are brilliant! F**K Wasps

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Just my opinion but we're nearly 25 years into professionalism and clubs forming the tier below international rugby in England so trying to force in a level in between wouldn't work. Fans wouldn't buy it.

The solution is for all stakeholders in European rugby to work together, not just the RFU and PRL but the IRFU, SRU, WRU, FIR, FFR and LNR. as equals. Cut the amount of games played. Unions agree to compensate clubs for any potential shortfall in revenue by doing this. Combine the leagues under one umbrella. Get rid of promotion and relegation. Strategically plan expansion to new territories like the NRL, AFL or NFL. That's how to grow the game while looking after player welfare.

Squads are so big because there are too many games. Fewer games equals smaller squads and the star players play a higher percentage of games. Stars playing keeps broadcasters happy and leads to larger commercial contracts. Fans are happy because they too get to see the stars play and turn up more often.

England have a conveyor belt of talent coming through u20 level for the last number of years. Why aren't they getting a shot earlier?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Just my opinion but we're nearly 25 years into professionalism and clubs forming the tier below international rugby in England so trying to force in a level in between wouldn't work. Fans wouldn't buy it.

The solution is for all stakeholders in European rugby to work together, not just the RFU and PRL but the IRFU, SRU, WRU, FIR, FFR and LNR. as equals. Cut the amount of games played. Unions agree to compensate clubs for any potential shortfall in revenue by doing this. Combine the leagues under one umbrella. Get rid of promotion and relegation. Strategically plan expansion to new territories like the NRL, AFL or NFL. That's how to grow the game while looking after player welfare.

Squads are so big because there are too many games. Fewer games equals smaller squads and the star players play a higher percentage of games. Stars playing keeps broadcasters happy and leads to larger commercial contracts. Fans are happy because they too get to see the stars play and turn up more often.

England have a conveyor belt of talent coming through u20 level for the last number of years. Why aren't they getting a shot earlier?

I like most of that, but surely cutting squad sizes would disadvantage those u20's coming through?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I like most of that, but surely cutting squad sizes would disadvantage those u20's coming through?

Possibly. I'd say the more likely outcome is that squad filler gets cut. Those who remain are the established first teamers and young potential stars who're cheaper than that middle tier*. When the young players get their chance, they're surrounded by first team players, not dumped in with the dross in the Anglo-Welsh Cup or during the November/6 Nations periods.

*apart from at Leicester where Matt O'Connor will continue to only pick players born before 1985.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Possibly. I'd say the more likely outcome is that squad filler gets cut. Those who remain are the established first teamers and young potential stars who're cheaper than that middle tier*. When the young players get their chance, they're surrounded by first team players, not dumped in with the dross in the Anglo-Welsh Cup or during the November/6 Nations periods.

*apart from at Leicester where Matt O'Connor will continue to only pick players born before 1985.

I did love how Matt was known as the Black Door after a Dublin club that you only get into if you're over 26! One thing that brought a smile to my face during his tenure.

Eddie Jones mad humble in defeat, it's gotta be tough. I only hate him the least possible amount, reckon he was a good bro back in the day.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

How about saying every AP side has to have a squad of 45 players. The cap is increased to accommodate this.

A minimum playing time (barring injury or suspension) is brought in, and it forces more rotation. Current EPS rules still stand.

I haven’t actually thought it through too much, just came to mind

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

How about saying every AP side has to have a squad of 45 players. The cap is increased to accommodate this.

A minimum playing time (barring injury or suspension) is brought in, and it forces more rotation. Current EPS rules still stand.

I haven’t actually thought it through too much, just came to mind

Not a bad idea but I doubt many clubs would be keen on another cap increase when all but 2 (I think) made a loss last year.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Watching the game back (1st half so far) and it's like a vintage Schmidt Leinster game.

Bundee could have seen red, 100% YC.

Farrell didn't wrap when hitting Bob.

Ringers strip was sexy.

England should have taken points more in the first half.

Murray is near perfect.

JC, did a great job too.

 

[Pom in Exile]

What have a Second league with the traditional clubs (Like say Mitre 10 cup with the likes of Tigers, Saints etc etc), then have regional type teams in another league with the traditional teams feeding into the regional ones?

Back in the day, there used to be 4 regional teams: the North, the Midlands, the West and London (if memory serves). If something like that was implemented again and the four teams were tasked to play in the way that England want to play and were coached with England coaches involvement and up and coming English coaches then it might be beneficial to everyone and concentrate the talent.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The neck roll was a Peno.

Marler on Carbs was not.

Armand and Ford made a difference. Ford - Farrell - Daly should be the future 3/4 line.

Kearney was world class.

Earls industrious af, a real great Schmidt wing.

Daly pushed Ringrose and I hate him now, only starter with a big bite about him though.

Ringer is a great defender.

Leavy was flawless.

Larmour shoulda passed!

England need Youngs or a new 9.

Itoje wishes he was James Ryan.

 

[Scotty]

The neck roll was a Peno.

Marler on Carbs was not.

Armand and Ford made a difference. Ford - Farrell - Daly should be the future 3/4 line.

Kearney was world class.

Earls industrious af, a real great Schmidt wing.

Daly pushed Ringrose and I hate him now, only starter with a big bite about him though.

Ringer is a great defender.

Leavy was flawless.

Larmour shoulda passed!

England need Youngs or a new 9.

Itoje wishes he was James Ryan.

And kearney knocked the ball forward leading to the first try that the TMO decided to miss. Only world class players get away with that haha.

No im not actually bitter about that tbh it didnt affect the outcome(i know whos to actually say as it changes the game) but ireland were the better team on the day.

If englands finishes had come on, done a job and won the game for us then yay.......we can say actually we dont need to change anything, see we beat ireland and with injuries...arnt we amazing isnt EJ god lol.

Changes needed in the england camp we have been a very strong team winning again and again taking down the Aussies 4 times amd winning 9 out of 10 6N games before this tournement but really how many have been truely convincing wins of a team that can beat the AB and every other team for the RWC rather than decent to good performances where the bench saved out asses.


And the bit at the top about kearney, was a joke (i mean it happened) but im not fussed it happens dont focus on that and not the rest pf my post for god sake

 

[curtbob7]

This hangover is awful.

Apart from the knock on tries, Ireland deserved the win. A lot more clinical, I haven’t seen the stats but it felt England had the better territory.

Simmonds isn’t a international 8.

Simmonds isn't an International back-rower yet, full stop. Been rushed.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Simmonds isn't an International back-rower yet, full stop. Been rushed.

I’d agree. There’s all this chat about him going in at 7, but I still think he will be under powered there, especially as his primary weapon is he carrying...

I’d put him in the 20 shirt at a push right now, but he’s just not up to the task. Totally anonymous on Saturday

 

[curtbob7]

I’d agree. There’s all this chat about him going in at 7, but I still think he will be under powered there, especially as his primary weapon is he carrying...

I’d put him in the 20 shirt at a push right now, but he’s just not up to the task. Totally anonymous on Saturday

Yep. Shines for Exeter as the rest of the pack their are monsters. Work on his jackling and try emulate Michael Hooper is the route I hope he takes.