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(Very) early thoughts on the 2017 Lions

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Robshaw comes across as a steady and consistent player. Unfortunately it's like his performances range from 7-8 and there are players out there who can give 9 and will get selected before him, even if their lowest is lower than his low.
 
Tallshort said:
Robshaw could score 60 points against the All Blacks and still not be rated by some. Its a shame because hes been one of England's most consistent players and Eddie Jones (now) rates him very highly but unfortunately there are certain arm chair selectors who will never rate him.
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I must admit to being one of those armchair critics who wasn't a big fan of Robshaw; certainly when he was captain and played at 7. But since Jones has taken over I've been impressed how he has taken the loss of the captaincy on the chin and really knuckled down. I get what others have said here i.e. that he has a lower ceiling than others fighting for the 6 jersey, but I think he also has a lower floor i.e. he'll always be a 6 or 7 out of 10 at least. What did they say about Richard Hill and doing the dirty, unseen work - that is Robshaw at the moment for me, but in this case I am noticing the tonne of work he is getting through and so IMO should the Lions selectors.
 
ragerancher said:
Robshaw comes across as a steady and consistent player. Unfortunately it's like his performances range from 7-8 and there are players out there who can give 9 and will get selected before him, even if their lowest is lower than his low.
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Direct like the precise opposite of the Ford v Farrell debate.
 
Tallshort said:
Robshaw could score 60 points against the All Blacks and still not be rated by some. Its a shame because hes been one of England's most consistent players and Eddie Jones (now) rates him very highly but unfortunately there are certain arm chair selectors who will never rate him.
Click to expand...

Aren't all selectors of the "armchair" variety .............. I know of no current player who selects an International Rugby Union team.
 
It all depends on the style we want to play, if it is based around defence than Haskell or Robshaw has a very good chance. If they want to try and jackal everytime than Warburton/Tipuric/POM are miles ahead. With Gatland, Warburton will definitely be in the team. That means Vunipola/Heaslip at 8 as Faletau is injured for a while I believe. So the 6 will probably be POM/SOB

I think Itoje will play lock with AWJ or Gray. I'd be amazed if Itoje doesn't start but maybe he won't because of his age, Kruis and Launch have a big chance to get in as well.
 
As fun as all this is, I suspect the starting XV for the 1st Test will have a number of surprises. Think back to the four winning Lions squads. In 2013, at the start of the series did anyone believe that a fit O'Driscoll would be left out? In 1997, I'm sure nobody would have predicted Smith and Wallace getting the nod at prop. In 1974, nobody would have guessed Uttley would start all 4 Tests at blindside flanker. In 1971, the starting Test props were only there because of injury.

At the minute I can say that Halfpenny and Itoje are certainties, and (insert random Scottish name here) has no chance, but who knows come next Summer?
 
Loads of other examples Nick:

Matt Dawson 1997 when Howley got injured;
Rob Henderson stepped up when Greenwood got injured; Corry for Dallaglio in 2001;
Ryan Jones in 2005
Tom Croft in 2009
Alex Corbisiero in 2013.

Pick your initial 37/38 Lions squad and add about 10 to squad, as there will always be injuries and therefore bolters.

Out of the 2017 predicted squad who knows: An Elliot Daley could come into the reckoning or even Robshaw;).
 
Lancashire Nick said:
Assuming he's fit, is Itoje a banker for the second row, or do you think the Lions may put him at 6?
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I can't think of a single reason other than injury that he wouldn't start each test and at lock - assuming he continues there throughout the season and 6N.

AWJ can play the enforcer (it's Gatland, so he's the second name on the team sheet right after Roberts) and either of the Gray bros can do the same. I've little knowledge of Ireland's second row at the moment.

Aside from that there are arguably better options at 6 then wedging Itoje in there just to get him on the field
 
Ddanno said:
I can't think of a single reason other than injury that he wouldn't start each test and at lock - assuming he continues there throughout the season and 6N.

AWJ can play the enforcer (it's Gatland, so he's the second name on the team sheet right after Roberts) and either of the Gray bros can do the same. I've little knowledge of Ireland's second row at the moment.

Aside from that there are arguably better options at 6 then wedging Itoje in there just to get him on the field
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I wasn't thinking of playing Itoje at 6 just to get him on the field somehow. I believe a fit Itoje is nailed on for a shirt, but he might be moved to 6, because Gatland may want to find a way of getting a favoured second row in the team (perhaps another enforcer, or a specialist front/middle lineout jumper).
 
Just have to see what the 6N brings. Kruis was the outstanding lock this year.

If AWJ can be nursed through the season I wouldn't mind seeing him as captain. Warbs is a very good player, but I'm not sure he'd command the same respect as AWJ.
 
Some thoughts on who has put their names up for selection for the squad this Autumn so far:

Furlong - tight head prop.
Launchbury - a good back up for Itoje, especially if Itoje is called to do a job at 6.
Robshaw - deserves a call up IMO on the back of some solid work this year. May not be the most talented, but still has a lot to offer the squad and is durable.
Daly - for his versatility if nothing else.
Huw Jones - couple of cracking tries v Australia.

Any others?
 
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The_Blindside said:
Some thoughts on who has put their names up for selection for the squad this Autumn so far:

Furlong - tight head prop.
Launchbury - a good back up for Itoje, especially if Itoje is called to do a job at 6.
Robshaw - deserves a call up IMO on the back of some solid work this year. May not be the most talented, but still has a lot to offer the squad and is durable.
Daly - for his versatility if nothing else.
Huw Jones - couple of cracking tries v Australia.

Any others?
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A long shot, but Roko? I'm expecting 4 wingers to go, North, Nowell and Watson as 3. But the 4th could be anyone really. Maitland, Seymour, Zebo, Roko, May...

O'Brien's put his name back in the hat. I doubted him after such a long time off injury but he was reliable yesterday and he'll only improve.

I'm not a fan of Heaslip but I'm starting to see why people like him. Faletau and Vunipola are clearly the top 2 8s, but if Heaslip keeps this up, he may force the coaches to take a third.

Josh Van Der Flier could be a bolter. He's been very impressive.
 
TobyBeastTeague said:
A long shot, but Roko? I'm expecting 4 wingers to go, North, Nowell and Watson as 3. But the 4th could be anyone really. Maitland, Seymour, Zebo, Roko, May...

O'Brien's put his name back in the hat. I doubted him after such a long time off injury but he was reliable yesterday and he'll only improve.

I'm not a fan of Heaslip but I'm starting to see why people like him. Faletau and Vunipola are clearly the top 2 8s, but if Heaslip keeps this up, he may force the coaches to take a third.

Josh Van Der Flier could be a bolter. He's been very impressive.
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The back 3 is where the Lions do have strength in depth. You say 4 wingers, but Gatland could easily go for 3 specialist wingers and 3 full backs, with Liam Williams easily able to cover all 3 positions. Halfpenny could also be considered to cover wing after playing there at the weekend. I think Hogg will make it, but Kearney is another one who is very good under the high ball and beat Ben Smith to a a couple of up and unders in the Chicago test. Personally, can't see Roko going in the initial squad, but who knows with injuries.

SOB was always on my list to go if fit. If only because he is such a "test match animal" that Geech goes on about. He is also someone who plays very well against NZ and covers all 3 back row positions.

I see what you mean about Heaslip. I would have had Binny and Faletau ahead of him, but Heaslip has played a blinder so far in SA 3 test series and this Autumn. He's also got two Lions series under his belt, so brings about a lot of experience. Backrow is somewhere where the Lions have a lot of depth and someone is going to be disappointed.

I think there are at least 3 or 4 7s who will be ahead of JVDF come the initial squad selection - SW, JT, John Hardie; Haskell. So difficult to see him get in there right now if the aforementioned are fit.
 
The_Blindside said:
Some thoughts on who has put their names up for selection for the squad this Autumn so far:

Furlong - tight head prop.
Launchbury - a good back up for Itoje, especially if Itoje is called to do a job at 6.
Robshaw - deserves a call up IMO on the back of some solid work this year. May not be the most talented, but still has a lot to offer the squad and is durable.
Daly - for his versatility if nothing else.
Huw Jones - couple of cracking tries v Australia.

Any others?
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Agree on Furlong. TH is right up for grabs.

If Faletau is fit I'd expect him to be the 8, but I do like what Heaslip brings. He's understated, but you don't win 90 caps by accident.

Rory Best has upped his game and it looks like the Irish players are responding to him. Looks like there could be a pretty big Irish contingent in the test team. Could he be a bolter for skipper?
 

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