Had them doing extra tackling drills during warm ups also.
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Wales v Ireland
- Thread starter TRF_Cymro
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One stat I'm particularily pleased about is our success on our own throw at lineout. 18 from 19 is not bad atall, especially against Ireland who are traditionally very good there. Some of those were even off the top ball for the backs to use. I know two of the won lineouts were a little scrappy, but still. Still don't put all that much pressure on the opposition throw though. Only remember one lineout where we got remotely close. Still though, an area that we've struggled in for years seems to be finally coming good.
Just need to sort out the area that we're traditionally strong in, running with the ball, and scoring tries!!!!!
Just need to sort out the area that we're traditionally strong in, running with the ball, and scoring tries!!!!!
best_fullback
Academy Player
A slightly disappointing game given the hype surrounding it but I suppose we can't be too disappointed after seeing France lose to Italy!
Have to say it was a shocking call by the linesman. So many times after games too much can be made of a decision that could really have gone either way but this did really change the game. I think its safe to say its a well known fact that you can't take a quick lineout with another ball or a ball that has touched a spectator. So many times when I have played in the past have we been bought back for this exact reason and if you notice it is the reason way sometimes if players are forced to kick the ball out they will simply blast it into the stands to deliberately stop the quick lineout possibility. As Jonathan Davies said after the game, the Irish pack were turned around waiting for the lineout so for the try to be allowed, as well finished as it was, was an awful dicision.
That being said though Ireland still could have won it so what on earth was Paddy Wallace thinking by not passing to Earls? Shocking.
Have to say it was a shocking call by the linesman. So many times after games too much can be made of a decision that could really have gone either way but this did really change the game. I think its safe to say its a well known fact that you can't take a quick lineout with another ball or a ball that has touched a spectator. So many times when I have played in the past have we been bought back for this exact reason and if you notice it is the reason way sometimes if players are forced to kick the ball out they will simply blast it into the stands to deliberately stop the quick lineout possibility. As Jonathan Davies said after the game, the Irish pack were turned around waiting for the lineout so for the try to be allowed, as well finished as it was, was an awful dicision.
That being said though Ireland still could have won it so what on earth was Paddy Wallace thinking by not passing to Earls? Shocking.
First of all, I'd like to applaud the Irish posters on here for being so level headed after what happened.
Secondly though, we have to accept that mistakes from officials often determine the outcome of matches if we look solely on the scoreline. Penalties are wrongly given, or not given, sometimes for some quite blatant things, and is often the difference between the scores at the end. I'm not fussed if people complain, because they've got a right to be annoyed, I cenrtainly have in the past, it's part and parcel of the game.
At the end of the day, that decision wasn't the only thing that prevented Ireland from winning. They missed a straight forward penalty and butchered a simple try at the death, which could have won them the game. It's nice to see most people on here realising that.
Thirdly, you've gotta laugh at 606. I have no idea why I occasionally have a quick look on there, because 90% of the posters are utterly stupid. But, there seems to be many on there who are critisising Wales and Matthew Rees and Phillips in particular for actually taking the try, and that they should have owned up. Now I'm not a fan of acts of unsportsmanship behaviour, but I think you've gotta play the referee in situations like that. Players don't own up when a knock on is missed, or when they wrongly get awarded a penalty, isn't that exactly the same thing? What are people's take on this, should there be more honesty in rugby, or do you accept that professional rugby is about pushing your luck and seeing what you can get away with? Backrowers get applauded for doing this at the breakdown, props are masters at bending the rules at scrum time, is this any different?
Finally, regarding the quick throw issue. Is it true that a quick lineout throw can't be taken place if the ball touches anything or anyone else, i.e. boarding etc? I personally though this was the case, and if so is a rule which is very rarely upheld propperly. I've brought the issue up before, but Cooky's snippet of the rules above doesn't mention anything about boarding etc. just people.
Edit. Sorry one more question. Does everybody agree that the role of the TMO should be extended to include things like this? For me, the nice answer would be yes, but then the question crops up where do we draw the line? It's possible to find something wrong in quite alot of tries if you go back far enough. If it does happen, how long would it be untill people start asking for it to extend a little further again? When I watch older matches before tmo's were used, there are plenty of tries that would probably be ruled out nowerdays due to being in touch etc. Was that a bad thing? Would rugby have been better off during the 70's etc. with a tmo? Probably not, I just think we've gotta be a bit careful how much it's used. I feel the current system works about right, even if things are missed every now and then. I get annoyed that ref's constantly check the grounding of the ball at the moment, we could end up with every try being checked for forward passes, knock ons, ruck infringements, offsides etc. and that wouldn't be a good thing!
Just some thoughts.
Secondly though, we have to accept that mistakes from officials often determine the outcome of matches if we look solely on the scoreline. Penalties are wrongly given, or not given, sometimes for some quite blatant things, and is often the difference between the scores at the end. I'm not fussed if people complain, because they've got a right to be annoyed, I cenrtainly have in the past, it's part and parcel of the game.
At the end of the day, that decision wasn't the only thing that prevented Ireland from winning. They missed a straight forward penalty and butchered a simple try at the death, which could have won them the game. It's nice to see most people on here realising that.
Thirdly, you've gotta laugh at 606. I have no idea why I occasionally have a quick look on there, because 90% of the posters are utterly stupid. But, there seems to be many on there who are critisising Wales and Matthew Rees and Phillips in particular for actually taking the try, and that they should have owned up. Now I'm not a fan of acts of unsportsmanship behaviour, but I think you've gotta play the referee in situations like that. Players don't own up when a knock on is missed, or when they wrongly get awarded a penalty, isn't that exactly the same thing? What are people's take on this, should there be more honesty in rugby, or do you accept that professional rugby is about pushing your luck and seeing what you can get away with? Backrowers get applauded for doing this at the breakdown, props are masters at bending the rules at scrum time, is this any different?
Finally, regarding the quick throw issue. Is it true that a quick lineout throw can't be taken place if the ball touches anything or anyone else, i.e. boarding etc? I personally though this was the case, and if so is a rule which is very rarely upheld propperly. I've brought the issue up before, but Cooky's snippet of the rules above doesn't mention anything about boarding etc. just people.
Edit. Sorry one more question. Does everybody agree that the role of the TMO should be extended to include things like this? For me, the nice answer would be yes, but then the question crops up where do we draw the line? It's possible to find something wrong in quite alot of tries if you go back far enough. If it does happen, how long would it be untill people start asking for it to extend a little further again? When I watch older matches before tmo's were used, there are plenty of tries that would probably be ruled out nowerdays due to being in touch etc. Was that a bad thing? Would rugby have been better off during the 70's etc. with a tmo? Probably not, I just think we've gotta be a bit careful how much it's used. I feel the current system works about right, even if things are missed every now and then. I get annoyed that ref's constantly check the grounding of the ball at the moment, we could end up with every try being checked for forward passes, knock ons, ruck infringements, offsides etc. and that wouldn't be a good thing!
Just some thoughts.
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TrueSlawter
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I dont think TMO options should be increased as the wait to find out in a game lost for one team takes the pish and as you said it could be incorporated to everything liek is the guy offside, did he handle in the ruck etc.
Only way to this mistake about the was it then right ball happening in the future would be to have 2 ball designs on the day or different colour schemes.. as in one ball with home nations home kit colouring, the other away kit or something like that.. (only using as a example ofc) so if played in Wales the balls would be red and white and the other Blue and red so its easy to see if its the right ball.
As for 606 I popped on there too and I did laugh at all the stuff saying they should've owned up at the end of the day players dont go to the ref and say "I was offside there ref" or told the ref it was crossing or a knock on if its missed etc. I laughed more when they were going on about its "tarnished Wales' already weak reputation" or something along those lines, at the end of the day any team would've taken it without saying anything to the ref.
Only way to this mistake about the was it then right ball happening in the future would be to have 2 ball designs on the day or different colour schemes.. as in one ball with home nations home kit colouring, the other away kit or something like that.. (only using as a example ofc) so if played in Wales the balls would be red and white and the other Blue and red so its easy to see if its the right ball.
As for 606 I popped on there too and I did laugh at all the stuff saying they should've owned up at the end of the day players dont go to the ref and say "I was offside there ref" or told the ref it was crossing or a knock on if its missed etc. I laughed more when they were going on about its "tarnished Wales' already weak reputation" or something along those lines, at the end of the day any team would've taken it without saying anything to the ref.
Chris Ward
Academy Player
Yeah, its an unwritten rule and you play to the ref. If he didn't see it, it didn't happen. How do you feel as Welsh fans? I'm not sure how I would feel after winning with a tarnish on it. (Yet in all honesty I can't say Ireland deserved a win)
We see bad decisions and missed calls all the time, its unfortunate that it had such a big effect on the game yet it will always be there as the ref is human. C'est la vie.
We see bad decisions and missed calls all the time, its unfortunate that it had such a big effect on the game yet it will always be there as the ref is human. C'est la vie.
Ireland get screwed by Jonothan Kaplan...welcome to the world of the Canes'.
On the one hand, that's an appalling way to lose. And I know refs make mistakes, but that was about the most giganticly wrong one I've seen in ages. In fairness to Kaplan - he didn't see it, he checks with the lino - thats fair. The lino is the one who shouold be getting castigated
On the other hand, absolutely hilarious!
On the other hand, absolutely hilarious!
Chris Ward
Academy Player
I'm surprised at how annoyed I'm not. I was apathetic during the game due to Ireland's appalling effort. I'm sure the Welsh fans will agree that Ireland looked dangerous in attack yet did them a favour by kicking the ball straight to them. I dont want to demean the Welsh effort, you have some exciting players and you seem on the edge of something
great.
great.
Is it me or are Scottish referees absolutely incapable of officiating a match of any sort. Peter Allen was the assistant referee and I feel very sorry for him because he made a mistake. The IRB must learn for this and the TMO should be used to see any incident that leads to a try e.g. forward pass.
On the game Ireland really need to look at themselves. The stats should we can be very good with ball in hand as we beat 14 defenders. We dominated the breakdown as our forwards held the welsh ball carriers up. So if we are successful at rucking and we can beat defenders why are we kicking the ball. I have no problem with kicking the ball but we kicked when we should have kept the ball and kept the ball when we should have kicked. The kicks were dreadful as well. We have learned that Sexton is no good coming off the bench and he should start. He can play well if he starts and ROG can close out the game. Our pack did what it could but ball carrying was not as effective. The pack provided the backs with ball but the backs didn't do anything good with it. Fitz had a poor game and the kicking style doesn't suit him. Tommy Bowe stood out for Ireland and you could see him try to create things but his fellow backs just didn't want to play the positive game he played. He kept himself busy and was solid under the high ball. It is clear to me that the coaches had told Ireland to kick everything and that shows how old fashioned the coaches are. Anyway well done to Wales and for England we have nothing to lose lets put some new players in and let the players run the game.
On the game Ireland really need to look at themselves. The stats should we can be very good with ball in hand as we beat 14 defenders. We dominated the breakdown as our forwards held the welsh ball carriers up. So if we are successful at rucking and we can beat defenders why are we kicking the ball. I have no problem with kicking the ball but we kicked when we should have kept the ball and kept the ball when we should have kicked. The kicks were dreadful as well. We have learned that Sexton is no good coming off the bench and he should start. He can play well if he starts and ROG can close out the game. Our pack did what it could but ball carrying was not as effective. The pack provided the backs with ball but the backs didn't do anything good with it. Fitz had a poor game and the kicking style doesn't suit him. Tommy Bowe stood out for Ireland and you could see him try to create things but his fellow backs just didn't want to play the positive game he played. He kept himself busy and was solid under the high ball. It is clear to me that the coaches had told Ireland to kick everything and that shows how old fashioned the coaches are. Anyway well done to Wales and for England we have nothing to lose lets put some new players in and let the players run the game.
Logorrhea
Bench Player
I think its indifference mate. No one has the heart to be angry having seen the **** this team served up for 60 minutes.
That decision had a massive impact on the game, however, if we won (which we probably shoudl have) it would have glossed over another absolute cack performance. .
To be honest I'm kinda surprised how positive the Welsh fans are. Seriously, did you see how bad your guys were? Hook had a solid game (kicked O'gara off the pitch), Byrne did alright but aside from that I thought you were woeful. Not trying to put a downer on anything, I'm okay with the loss, but you guys need to start looking at what you are doing cause that is not good enough to beat Figi and Samoa in the World Cup.
Some good level-headed posts on here. I tried to post yesterday after the game but the computer suddenly refreshed the page and deleted my post so i got mad and gave up.
I really enjoyed the game despite not always being of the highest quality. I didin't ever know who I wanted to win. Usually the team who was behind, so when Paddy W butchered that overlap at the end I was livid. Wales will be extremely happy to have added Ireland to their six nations victories this year, so enjoy it for welsh fans. I wouldnt want to overplay this but I do think the philips try was crucial in changing the game dynamic into one where Wales were content to let it be and didn't have to chase the game. That said, Wales from that point on played the game and did what needed to be done.
I think the result shouldn't hide the fact that Wales still have problems to solve in the backs. I can't say exactly what those problems for are, but for me Jamie Roberts and Jonathan Davies in the midfield isn't working very well. Wales have to players to play a crash ball game, but I'm not sure it's a game plan which suits Wales, especially with Philips at 9 with fairly laborious distribution. I think Wales need more of a balance. I'd like to see Hook and JD play together in midfield but that seems highly unlikely. That's not a comment against Jamie Roberts, but I just would like to see a different dynamic.
I think overall Ireland looked more threatening, and without the unforced errors and conceeding so many turnovers the phases built-up would have seem them score more points. Also, if Ireland utilise a bigger variety of back moves aside from the loop and pivot? Probably not called that then they can easily increase their incision with more variety. But in general I agree Ireland need to eradicate this coaching conservativism and get a new coach. I think with home advantage Ireland still have a good chance of beating England despite these results.
I really enjoyed the game despite not always being of the highest quality. I didin't ever know who I wanted to win. Usually the team who was behind, so when Paddy W butchered that overlap at the end I was livid. Wales will be extremely happy to have added Ireland to their six nations victories this year, so enjoy it for welsh fans. I wouldnt want to overplay this but I do think the philips try was crucial in changing the game dynamic into one where Wales were content to let it be and didn't have to chase the game. That said, Wales from that point on played the game and did what needed to be done.
I think the result shouldn't hide the fact that Wales still have problems to solve in the backs. I can't say exactly what those problems for are, but for me Jamie Roberts and Jonathan Davies in the midfield isn't working very well. Wales have to players to play a crash ball game, but I'm not sure it's a game plan which suits Wales, especially with Philips at 9 with fairly laborious distribution. I think Wales need more of a balance. I'd like to see Hook and JD play together in midfield but that seems highly unlikely. That's not a comment against Jamie Roberts, but I just would like to see a different dynamic.
I think overall Ireland looked more threatening, and without the unforced errors and conceeding so many turnovers the phases built-up would have seem them score more points. Also, if Ireland utilise a bigger variety of back moves aside from the loop and pivot? Probably not called that then they can easily increase their incision with more variety. But in general I agree Ireland need to eradicate this coaching conservativism and get a new coach. I think with home advantage Ireland still have a good chance of beating England despite these results.
King_D'Arcy
First XV
Just a shocking performance! It seems like every week we have a new problem. The discipline wasn't as bad as it was against Scotland or France, the handling wasn't as bad as it was against France or Italy but we had the ******* aimless kicking this week!! Why were they so poor when they were in the oppositions 22 as well? The number of try scoring oppurtunites ruined! They were good at getting over the gainline up until the 5 metre line and then they just seemed to panic and lose the ball or give away a penalty!
I think it's important to note Wales in no way deserved to win this match. They were probably worse than Ireland.
I think it's important to note Wales in no way deserved to win this match. They were probably worse than Ireland.
durbutter
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Classy dig there. Trying to get your retaliation in first eh?
best_fullback
Academy Player
Yes I totally agree with your line of thinking. Rugby, by its nature, is a game where boundaries have to be pushed. Areas of the breakdown are so unique in their formation that one will never be the same as another, so if you can get away with your hands in the ruck for that split second longer to push the ball your side when technically a ruck has been formed well unless the ref picks up on it then why should you own up? Also many referees have different thresholds and levels of strictness for how they personally adjudge infringements so it would be counter intuitive to say that players should stop and say "actually ref you should have penalised me there". There are so many examples of this such as the lead up to Ashton's 80m try vs Australia where Ginea was clearly not released by Palmer and Flood meaning they could lever him to the England side - directly leading to the try. It is a rule everyone knows but if they can get away with it for a second longer it shows what rewards are possible.
Rule 19.2 (d) "For a quick throw-in, the player must use the ball that went into touch. A quick throw-in is not permitted if another person has touched the ball apart from the player throwing it in and an opponent who carried it into touch. The same team throws into the lineout." - From your question therefore I would say yes, though I previously thought the same as you. However I know the reason why you can't take it quickly from hitting a person is because they may effectively act as another player and quickly pass it to the player on this side of the pitch, obviously being unfair to the other team as if this wasn't the case they would have to constantly be watching what all the spectators were doing incase they quickly gave it to a player.
3rd umpire/video referee intervention is big issue in any sport. I think generally the answer should be no for allowing it more because as you say it increases the precedent for it then to be used even more, and it slows the game down. As a matter of policy you can say it would seriously undermine referees who usually get the decisions right. Compared to football there are hardly any issues with the game in this respect. Were it not for the linesman missing the obvious ball switch then we wouldn't be speaking about it. It is currently used in its correct function which is obviously to check the legitimacy of a try but the fact that the quick throw in did lead directly to the try raises doubts as to how far back it should go.
Personally I believe the linesman should get it right in the first place but what would have happened if the linesman wasn't sure when the referee asked him? Personally, I believe common sense should prevail and if there is an incident that leads directly to a try and the referee and assistants did not see it clearly then surely use the video referee.
lucky number 7
International
Well.....that was shite....
King_D'Arcy
First XV
Ridiculous attitude. The linesman made a balls of it and im ****** off but if Phillips hadn't taken that try he'd have gotten slated!
TVH11
First XV
Exiting game with a S!!tload of errors in all areas. The try was very controversial, is there ever a dull moment in welsh rugby??
Gotta agree with whats been said with our guys, we weren't great and the result shouldn't shadow the error ridden performance. Great for the confidence, but as everyone has stated there are still areas of concern.
I Don't know why the back-line hasn't clicked yet. They've had some tidy possession at times, but just used it aimlessly. It's frustrating to see our wingers coming in field to find the ball (not that its a bad thing,but its always to frequent). Our wingers are a massive threat, but aren't given the ball in places they need it (in space, out on the wing). Hopefully this week our guys will be practicing to use the ball in hand, and not kick it (and if they kick it, make sure it makes touch). I hope we don't kick so frequently next week in Paris, because the French at home won't be kicking it back at us and they'll relish playing an open, running game.
Well its another W by the result, but the performance will hopefully improve for next week
Gonna watch scrum V tonight to see some "non biased" analysis of the game
Gotta agree with whats been said with our guys, we weren't great and the result shouldn't shadow the error ridden performance. Great for the confidence, but as everyone has stated there are still areas of concern.
I Don't know why the back-line hasn't clicked yet. They've had some tidy possession at times, but just used it aimlessly. It's frustrating to see our wingers coming in field to find the ball (not that its a bad thing,but its always to frequent). Our wingers are a massive threat, but aren't given the ball in places they need it (in space, out on the wing). Hopefully this week our guys will be practicing to use the ball in hand, and not kick it (and if they kick it, make sure it makes touch). I hope we don't kick so frequently next week in Paris, because the French at home won't be kicking it back at us and they'll relish playing an open, running game.
Well its another W by the result, but the performance will hopefully improve for next week
Gonna watch scrum V tonight to see some "non biased" analysis of the game
Lads haven't read posts and haven't been on in few days but well although the ref made balls of decision Wales deserved a win and we'd be applauding if it were Ireland that got away with it. First rule in sport is you always play the whistle and Wales did that. ROG was poor and Sexton came on and was worst, I thought Paulie Sean O'Brien and to a lesser extent Earls did well for us. Wallace tried to be a hero at end and make amends for 2 years ago instead of passing to Earls at end.
On Sexton point though this happened before and seems to be occurring again that a confident Sexton goes into camp but a fragile and rattled Sexton is sent back.
On Sexton point though this happened before and seems to be occurring again that a confident Sexton goes into camp but a fragile and rattled Sexton is sent back.
i think the idea of using the TMO for this decision is a good one. however, not to be used on every single infringement (knock on, forward pass, hands in ruck) but only for the last phase that lead up to the try. restricting the TMO to only be used when there is a grey area relating to a try does not seem very difficult or time wasting to me. it would probably take the same amount of time that it takes to see if a ball has been grounded for a try (that can sometimes take a few minutes). for the next point i may be a little bias but isn't there a rule for unsportmanship? the welsh player knew he was illegally throwing the ball to phillips so can't that be looked at by the citing commission after the game? unlike 50/50 calls that are made relating to rucks, the quick throw was a no doubt 100% illegal move and deliberately done as well.
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