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Who Will Lose Out To Sonny Bill Williams?

Well I will reserve my judgment of SBW until I see how he goes in the New Zealand game. What I will say is that if any team can turn him into a great player, it will be Canterbury/Crusaders. There are a number of players who became All Blacks that would likely never have done so playing for any other team... e.g. Scott Hamilton and Daryl Gibson. They also extended players whose careers appeared over, such as Caleb Ralph and Rob Cribb.

If they could "fix" Rob Cribb, they can fix anyone!
 
Well I will reserve my judgment of SBW until I see how he goes in the New Zealand game. What I will say is that if any team can turn him into a great player, it will be Canterbury/Crusaders. There are a number of players who became All Blacks that would likely never have done so playing for any other team... e.g. Scott Hamilton and Daryl Gibson. They also extended players whose careers appeared over, such as Caleb Ralph and Rob Cribb.

If they could "fix" Rob Cribb, they can fix anyone!
So SBW will be joining Leicester after the WC? :p
 
Well I will reserve my judgment of SBW until I see how he goes in the New Zealand game. What I will say is that if any team can turn him into a great player, it will be Canterbury/Crusaders. There are a number of players who became All Blacks that would likely never have done so playing for any other team... e.g. Scott Hamilton and Daryl Gibson. They also extended players whose careers appeared over, such as Caleb Ralph and Rob Cribb.

If they could "fix" Rob Cribb, they can fix anyone!

No-one could fix Gibson's nose though :lol: most breaks I've seen on anyones hooter
 
SBW really seems to polarize people. I've heard completely different reviews about his performance in France - some claim he was by far the best centre in France, while others will claim he's not even in the top 10. I saw very little of his performances, so I'm waiting until he has a few games over here before I form an opinion on his Rugby ability (or lack of).

In New Zealand opinions of SBW fall into three main camps:

(a) He's completely overrated and will never get close to making the AB's (on merit), and is a waste of NZRFU money
(b) He's a solid player, who potentially will make a good All Black (but is still probably a waste of NZRFU money)
(c) He is a god.

Based on what I've read and heard over the last few months I'd suggest the majority of NZers would be in catergory (a) with only the minority in (b) or (c). He is certainly not rated highly by the vast majority of Rugby (Union) people in NZ!
 
This thread has brought me much amusement throughout the day at work.

Some people are basing opinions on not watching him at all or on his career in league. Which im afraid you can't.

He is good enough, people are seemingly writing him off. He wants to play for NZ good on him I say. He could have stayed for the cash at Toloun but wanted that All Blacks jersey more. Whether he goes or stays after the World Cup is up to him. But at the moment he is not deserving on the All Blacks jersey until he shows the form he did for Toloun for Canterbury.

For me he offers more than what Stanley has done in the All Black jersey. Its not only his offloading he has, that what some people on here seem to think he only has. He has the pace to beat a man, can run good angles, can kick but also is solid in defence.
 
Yeah I see what your saying but you saying your Daniel Carter and me believing you is more naive than reading an interview on SBW telling us how he feels. Your comparison, to me is just not the same. No one knows themselves better than themselves I stand by that because its obviously true you cant compare that with a "If I said that I was a Daniel Carter..." . If Daniel Carter came out and told me how he felt I couldnt say "NO that is not how you feel, I KNOW how you feel", lol you know what I mean?.

He does use the word dream a lot but I too have a lot of dreams, a lot of people do, a lot of people dont get to carry it out and those who get to good on them. I have no jealousy or any negativity towards that or anyone with more dreams than one, its all good wheres the bad in that? Whats really so bad about it? Most things start with a dream anyway.

I do however feel for those hardworking Rugby players and its not certain that he would take somones place in the ABs (as you've made 'oppertunity' in bold) but if he does than good on him. Im sure Sonny trains hard as well he's come of a boxing fight and let me tell you boxing trainning's hard, very hard. To me nick I think you just dont like the guy maybe because he's a League player going into the All Blacks but I dont know for sure I can only speculate like you do with how Sonny feels.

You got to give everyone a chance nick, like they say where Im from 'its not always good to tell someone you cant, you wont' especially before they step up on the stage.

1. I understand what you mean, but you sort of missed the point. He would look stupid if he said he wasn't passionate about being an All Black, and it wasn't a "dream". It would create even more negativity about him. If he gains something by saying something, why should I believe him? It's not like he seems above dishonesty, is it?

2. When I use the word "dream" I use is for something I am the most passionate about. Your example of Martin Luther King is obsurd, as civil rights was the thing he was most passionate about. SBW uses the word dream in just about every thing he does, it gets to the point that it's like "I've always dreamed to hava a meatlovers Pizza".

3. My point is it's not really his passion. If it was, he'd have played rugby in NZ much earlier. The harm is that it undermines the value of the AB jersey. Many NH posters don't seem to understand what the jersey means, but it's pretty much the equivelant of giving somone like Danny Cipriani the Lions jersey over Jones, Wilkinson, O'Gara etc, and then the following season he goes to play football. Do you understand? No matter how talented he might been, and even if you won the Lions tour, the honour of playing for you nation should never be seen as a stepping stone for othger things, it should be the pinicle.

4. Wrong again. I'm fine with him being a league player. Umaga played league and he became one of my favourite All Blacks. The difference being, he didn't start on a salery higher than established players, and he showed he was committed to rugby and New Zealand. Sonny Bill Williams has never shown he is commited to anything, and I don't think he will. As I said, if he sticks around for the 2015 RWC, I'll eat my words but I doubt that will happen.

5. You've got to earn your chance. What has SBW done for NZ rugby for him to be payed as much as he is? Nothing.

This has nothing to do with his talent. It's just he does not deserve to be treated like he has been treated. He's shown next to no commitment to NZ rugby, other than a two year contract during the RWC, while other players who have fought for years to earn a chance to represent their country in the RWC, will have to miss out and it isn't fair. I'd have rather that money done to bringing Nick Evans back, as we need a proven and world class 1st 5/8th to back up Carter, when we're spoilt for options in the midfield.
 
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Many NH posters don't seem to understand what the jersey means, but it's pretty much the equivelant of giving somone like Danny Cipriani the Lions jersey.

Nah, we get it. For someone to walk in and think he's entitled to a jersey is shocking but they'll pick him a few times at least to justify his hefty fee. The NZRU have really gotten themselves into a mess this time.
 
I <3 Feic

I somehow missed this thread this morning, and missed it when i got back from work, but this is absolutely my opinion as well.
He's more overrated than Beast and Wilkinson put together. He was a cracking league player, and was so so in the T14. God only knows why people think he's the second coming of Ed Fairhurst, McAllister is a much bette choice for NZ.

Having said all that, i won't be surprised if he makes the ABs, purely based on "reputation" (which isn't really a reputation, more speculation, as he's not really done a lot).
I'd love him to go back to the NRL, just because his talent is wasted in Union. He was excellent for the Bulldogs and showed a lot of natural, league, talent, which just hasn't transferred over to union.


Also, whoever said he was a journeyman/mercenary (feic or Iain) is definately on the money. You only have to look at how he treated the Bulldogs (he just packed his bags and went, mid contract, without even telling them, as he had Toul to pay off his bosses when they found out) to see this.

I thought the second coming of Ed Fairhurst was Jesus? :huh:
 
I <3 Feic

I somehow missed this thread this morning, and missed it when i got back from work, but this is absolutely my opinion as well.
He's more overrated than Beast and Wilkinson put together. He was a cracking league player, and was so so in the T14. God only knows why people think he's the second coming of Ed Fairhurst, McAllister is a much bette choice for NZ.

Having said all that, i won't be surprised if he makes the ABs, purely based on "reputation"
(which isn't really a reputation, more speculation, as he's not really done a lot).
I'd love him to go back to the NRL, just because his talent is wasted in Union. He was excellent for the Bulldogs and showed a lot of natural, league, talent, which just hasn't transferred over to union.


Also, whoever said he was a journeyman/mercenary (feic or Iain) is definately on the money. You only have to look at how he treated the Bulldogs (he just packed his bags and went, mid contract, without even telling them, as he had Toul to pay off his bosses when they found out) to see this.

The ironic part of this statement is that McAllister only made it back into the ABs on reputation, and he wasnt very good when he did..
 
The ironic part of this statement is that McAllister only made it back into the ABs on reputation, and he wasnt very good when he did..

In fairness, he at least played rugby in New Zealand and won U20 player of the year before hand. I wouldn't mind SBW playing in NZ, providing he was getting payed a reasonable amount and showed interest in staying NZ for most of his career. It just doesn't seem likely.
 
Bottom line is Im a big SBW fan and I wont him to do well. I do agree though that he hasnt really been a superstar player like he was in League and I havent really seen much of him in France like some of you's have. I dont really care if he doesnt do too well in his 1st ITM game but I'll feel let-down if he doesnt even come up with at least 1 big play in his 2 outings. CMON SONNY!!!
 
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Those are different situations you are mentioning there...
-Brett was signed by Auckland on a short term deal that ended at the end of the Super 14, hes a Cantab and was never going to play in the ITM cup for anyone else.
-Guildford has been loned back to Hawkesbay from Canterbury as it was stipulated it as part of his contract
-Tanerau Latimer is playing for BOP which is in the Cheifs cachement. there is no reason for him to move to Waikato because he can get picked for the Cheifs from where he is now.
-Rene Ranger is the same, Northland is in the Blues cachement, there is no reason for him to go to Auckland
-Clint Newland gets picked up in the draft for the Highlanders after getting looked over by the 'Canes, the Highlanders dont own his contract so he has no contact with Highlander ITM teams.
-Calling Liam Messam "Disloyal" is very harsh, he moved to Waikato as a teenager, hes played the majority of his rugby for Waikato and played for them before he even made the Cheifs..

You are right. I guess I'm just an old fashion loyalist. But I know that went out the back door when rugby turned professional.
 
FFS who the hell is this Ed Fairhurst, and why do people go on about him?

Hardout!!...Im with you on that one. I think its a recycled TRF joke that humours our european posters, either that or one of us is actually Ed Fairhurst.
 
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