What's the problem with Sean Maitland?

[TRF_Olyy]

Haha, hes not the first NZ Maori to be in the B&I Lions either. Riki Flutey being the other. Also Thomas Waldrom has played for them and he plays for England.

Always wondered why NZ Maori didn't include Maori's playing in other countries. Providing they could get time off from clubs to play for them..

Did think it was odd with Flutey, however I was a ridiculously big fan of his at the time so didn't care

 

[TRF_heineken]

For me it comes down to what Nick has pointed out, that it's obvious that his first option would have been to play for NZ, but because this didn't come quickly enough, he jumped ship in order to play international rugby with Scotland. I don't blame Scotland for selecting him because in all honestly they are lacking in quality wingers. But the Lions aren't really lacking in options.

Ultimately the eligibility criteria is what it is, and as such I don't disprove because of that, but because I think there are players more deserving. Wade and Zebo are two off the top of my head.

Maitland will probably now have an absolute stormer of a series, and no-one will care about any of this.

I Agree with this and with what Nick has said. If Maitland wasn't a winger, and rather in a position which might have a vulnerable area, would the NH guys been so irked by his inclusion as they are now?

And would they also have been so irked if he was playing for longer than a year in Scotland? And maybe had 2 Six Nations tournaments behind him?

 

[ratsapprentice]

That's exactly what I said in my original post^ - that they would.

 

[stand_free]

So it's OK for England to shoe-horn Vunipola, Barritt, Flutey, Tuilagi, Vainikolo amongst others into their team but there's an issue because Scotland do it?

Sean Maitland has grandparents from Scotland, so whether you like it or not he's qualified to play for Scotland by virtue of that fact. It's enough to get him a British passport. It's enough to make him eligible for the Lions. It should be enough for people to get behind him. It's pointless moaning about the fact he's only been in the country since November and openly admitted he moved to Scotland to be able to play internationally. How many of us would do the same thing in his situation? Pretty much all of us.

 

[dullonien]

How many of us would do the same thing in his situation? Pretty much all of us.

Not really. I'd never play for any other country than Wales.

 

[Conal]

So it's OK for England to shoe-horn Vunipola, Barritt, Flutey, Tuilagi, Vainikolo amongst others into their team but there's an issue because Scotland do it?

Sean Maitland has grandparents from Scotland, so whether you like it or not he's qualified to play for Scotland by virtue of that fact. It's enough to get him a British passport. It's enough to make him eligible for the Lions. It should be enough for people to get behind him. It's pointless moaning about the fact he's only been in the country since November and openly admitted he moved to Scotland to be able to play internationally. How many of us would do the same thing in his situation? Pretty much all of us.

again i think half of it is time, like how much the bent thing ****** off us so much, its not that we don't accept exiles but when they are parachuted in it just seems uncooth.

i know maitland wasn't as bad as bent but he has only just turned up

 

[lynam1104]

Not really. I'd never play for any other country than Wales.

You say that but it is very different as a pro rugby player who has the talent just not fitting into plans it would be hugely frustrating. I do think that I would never seek out playing for another country but if I was offered? I'm pretty sure I would say yes, heck I kind of have having played for a Singapore U16 national team its very tempting and hard to resist. Another way to look at form a pro point of view is being offered a job in another company which is vastly better paying ect and saying no this is my company despite it lacking in what you need.

Sorry if this dosen't make much sense i'm a bit rambly ATM.

EDIT: to clarify i'm not saying that you shouldn't have national pride and I don't just looking at it objectively

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not really. I'd never play for any other country than Wales.

I'd be the same, however I think it would be different if I actually had proper family connections with another country. If I were a pro rugby player I'd be eligible to play for both Ireland and England but I don't think I could play for England considering I've never really supported them at all not just when they're playing against Ireland and I don't feel like I'm English in the slightest and none of my family do either. I'd say Maitland supported Scotland when he was younger just not when they were up against the All Blacks and considering he has close enough Scottish family I think he probably does feel he's Scottish.

The Lions is different though, I don't think a person can fully appreciate the Lions unless they have grown up in Britain or Ireland or one of the four teams has been the team they supported their whole lives.

 

[dullonien]

I'd be the same, however I think it would be different if I actually had proper family connections with another country. If I were a pro rugby player I'd be eligible to play for both Ireland and England but I don't think I could play for England considering I've never really supported them at all not just when they're playing against Ireland and I don't feel like I'm English in the slightest and none of my family do either. I'd say Maitland supported Scotland when he was younger just not when they were up against the All Blacks and considering he has close enough Scottish family I think he probably does feel he's Scottish.

The Lions is different though, I don't think a person can fully appreciate the Lions unless they have grown up in Britain or Ireland or one of the four teams has been the team they supported their whole lives.

I suppose it depends on how much contact Maitland had with Scotland in the past. My Grandad was French, but I have zero affiliation with France. My mum was born in England (Liverpool was the closest hospital to where her parents were living in Flintshire, North Wales. My Grandmother was also English on my mum's side. I've also lived in England for the padt five years, but none of it make me at-all affiliated with England.

If I was a pro rugby player I'm fairly certain I'd hold out all my playing career for a single Welsh cap, even if it meant giving up tens of caps for a different country. I just don't think I could do it any other way. I'm sure plenty feel exactly the same way.

I'm not saying that Maitland didn't feel somewhat affiliated with Scotland, hopefully he does considering he's now playing for them. A few NZ fans on the forum have said that they thought Maitland could have been an All Black by now with the dip inform / off the field things with a couple of their wingers, so hopefully Maitland is still happy with his choice.

 

[irelandfan123]

tbh I haven't seen Maitland do anything that Trimble hasn't done this year so why isn't he on the plane ahead of Maitland?
Answer Gatland wanted to be more than two scots so he brought a kiwi cause of a ****ing bloodline!
You ask me the only Scots to get on the plane should have been Hogg, Scott and Brown and 2/3 of that trio didn't go.
Whole selection is ****ed up picking 15 welsh people so he is hated when he head back (including Roberts who really should have been left off the plane for Scott)
Then picking Stevens, Hartley so he would have more english than irishmen so he wouldn't look bad after he said he to the press about the english being a bunch of nut ****s. That is the real reason Best didn't go, he put his reputation ahead of the squad! He also couldn't just have a triple welsh main coaching squad or the english would have a hissy fit so he brought Farrell ahead of Edwards and now the lines will be tore apart by a **** defensive system, just like when Wales tore apart england.

 

[big ginger 8]

OK.

 

[dullonien]

Loving the rant irelandfan123. Feeling a bit better now?

 

[irelandfan123]

Why yes

 

[ratsapprentice]

He also couldn't just have a triple welsh main coaching squad or the english would have a hissy fit so he brought Farrell ahead of Edwards and now the lines will be tore apart by a **** defensive system, just like when Wales tore apart england.

I don't understand how Shaun Edwards would count as a Welsh coach if he's coaching the Lions?

 

[Maverick1987]

tbh I haven't seen Maitland do anything that Trimble hasn't done this year so why isn't he on the plane ahead of Maitland?
Answer Gatland wanted to be more than two scots so he brought a kiwi cause of a ****ing bloodline!
You ask me the only Scots to get on the plane should have been Hogg, Scott and Brown and 2/3 of that trio didn't go.
Whole selection is ****ed up picking 15 welsh people so he is hated when he head back (including Roberts who really should have been left off the plane for Scott)
Then picking Stevens, Hartley so he would have more english than irishmen so he wouldn't look bad after he said he to the press about the english being a bunch of nut ****s. That is the real reason Best didn't go, he put his reputation ahead of the squad! He also couldn't just have a triple welsh main coaching squad or the english would have a hissy fit so he brought Farrell ahead of Edwards and now the lines will be tore apart by a **** defensive system, just like when Wales tore apart england.[/QUOTE]

I might be the only 1 but i dont think Wales beat England because the defense was poor in particular . An amazing scrummaging effort and just being heads and shoulders above us at the breakdown did it i'd say.

Gatland didn't pick this team for politics however much you want to say it Ireland were very poor in the 6N and best didn't help that much . His form has just fallen off at the wrong time . I'd have probably still picked him but i don't buy that politics decided it. As far as Roberts not going and taking Scott instead are you crazy ?? You want to leave a 50 cap twice grand slam winner at home to take a 22 year old with a handful of caps ? Not to mention the near perfect combination he seems to craft with BOD . Brown should have gone over Lydiate not because he's any better than Lydiate just because of game time against injury but then IMO wood has been better than Brown this year and it showed in last weeks semi-final Saints vs Sarries although i'm positive Lydiate will do a great job as long as he doesn't get injured again also think Heaslip is lucky to go too as his form has fallen off . Seen him play well twice all season . Where as Beattie has played great when i've seen him and was very consistent in the 6N . Shame about Launchberry but he wil get his chance i expect . Hopefully he will be on injury replacement list would love to see him on the fast grounds in Aus

Although after saying all this i'm fairly happy with the majority of the squad, lots and lots of tight calls between numerous players and i don't envy the coaching team for having to make them

 

[sifplay]

First up he's a New Zealander. This is the British and Irish Lions. I think most who object for this reason would also object to Visser though you could argue he's done a lot more to qualify.

Also I think you've gone a bit OTT with his defensive qualities and even as some would say a critic of Zebo he is excellent under the high ball.

lol Biritish, Irish and Pacific Islands Lions

 

[sifplay]

...one? Can't think of one other than Brad Barritt?

I have no real problem with Maitland being there. That he's represented NZ Maori irks me a little, but they're not an irb designated second side so rules is rules!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

Stevens

 

[smartcooky]

I don't think he should be playing for Scotland in the first place he played for NZ maori right? thats should really have bonded him to NZ, also I think he has a lot of work to do to get past Bowe/Cutberth for 14, saying he will start for the lions based on performances while he was at the Crusaders and somewhat ignoring his lack of performance for Scotland is a like saying we should pick Kearney to start over Halfpenny because he had a better 6N last year.

No.

IRB Regulation 9 says that a player's eligibility can only be captured if they play for...

1. The National First XV
2. The National Second XV
3. The National First VII (in sevens)

...against a national team that meets the same criteria for another country, i.e. a match between New Zealand and New Zealand "A" would not capture eligibility, but a match between New Zealand and England Saxons would.

NZ Maori is not even a fully representative national team, as it only represents a relatively small percentage of the population.

I think they have shown much more commitment than some other "normal" citizens of the country...

Yep. I have a friend from Pretoria who moved here to NZ a few years ago. He has just been given his New Zealand citizenship.

He reckons he's a Kiwi by choice, not by accident.....and..... HE'S A CRUSADERS SUPPORTER

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I think he was more asking if Maitland did in fact play for the NZ Maori team, but I could be wrong.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Stevens

Stevens retired from England like a year ago.
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