What's the problem with Sean Maitland?

[lynam1104]

Yeah it does sound a bit cockamamie, but he is a very good winger playing for two pretty average sides - Glasgow & Scotland. It is nigh on impossible for a good player to shine when you're stuck in a sh!thouse team, especially on the wing. It would be silly of Gatland to ignore his performances prior to coming to Scotland and simply judging him on how he had played since moving there.

It wouldn't really be silly as its what happing in the now that we have to judge on it's not the hope he'll come good next season or some time soon its what him and other players are showing at the time that should warrant selection, Maitland isn't the only one who Gatland has picked with that line of thinking being the only concivable justification Kearney and Heaslip, to a lesser extent, are exaples of this. I have no doubt he is a exceptional player he really preformed for the Crusaders in 2010/11 and was IMO unlucky not to get an AB call that year. I do hope he dose play well for the Lions it only makes them more competitive.

 

[psychic duck]

How is Maitland playing poorly right now?

He did all that was asked of him in the 6 Nations, but it is hard for a winger to stand out when in matches such as the Ireland one your team has not much possession. Whilst with Glasgow he has scored 3 tries in his 5 league matches, hardly on bad form, and doesn't seem to make hardly any unforced errors compared to some of the others Lions wing contenders (Cuthbert).

Still, I wouldn't have had him in my squad personally, but I am going to give him a chance on the tour.

 

[Feicarsinn]

How is Maitland playing poorly right now?

He did all that was asked of him in the 6 Nations, but it is hard for a winger to stand out when in matches such as the Ireland one your team has not much possession. Whilst with Glasgow he has scored 3 tries in his 5 league matches, hardly on bad form, and doesn't seem to make hardly any unforced errors compared to some of the others Lions wing contenders (Cuthbert).

Still, I wouldn't have had him in my squad personally, but I am going to give him a chance on the tour.

+1

 

[dullonien]

Yeah it does sound a bit cockamamie, but he is a very good winger playing for two pretty average sides - Glasgow & Scotland. It is nigh on impossible for a good player to shine when you're stuck in a sh!thouse team, especially on the wing. It would be silly of Gatland to ignore his performances prior to coming to Scotland and simply judging him on how he had played since moving there.

I take it you haven't watched any Glasgow games this season? They've probably been one of the most impressive teams in the Pro12 this season, and certainly the most attack orientated. They've been racking up 50+ point wins.

How is Maitland playing poorly right now?

Not sure where you read anyone saying he was playing poorly duck. He's been good, not great so far with Glasgow and Scotland. I was just questioning whether that's enough for him to leapfrog Cuthbert who's been in blistering form for two seasons now, and a proven performer is Bowe who's come back for Ulster and looks like he's not been away.

 

[Zed]

I take it you haven't watched any Glasgow games this season? They've probably been one of the most impressive teams in the Pro12 this season, and certainly the most attack orientated. They've been racking up 50+ point wins.



Not sure where you read anyone saying he was playing poorly duck. He's been good, not great so far with Glasgow and Scotland. I was just questioning whether that's enough for him to leapfrog Cuthbert who's been in blistering form for two seasons now, and a proven performer is Bowe who's come back for Ulster and looks like he's not been away.

From what I saw of Cuthbert in the 6N he was pretty handy in attack, he's quick, big etc but his positioning in defence was all over the place.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads he's not only 1. Tuilagi, Stevens, Vunipolo, Hartley and Fatelau are foreign born. Ok they didn't play in super rugby etc but the argument is birth place yes. What I find strange is 2 cousins could be on opposing sides

 

[dullonien]

From what I saw of Cuthbert in the 6N he was pretty handy in attack, he's quick, big etc but his positioning in defence was all over the place.

Yeah Cuthbert really messed up against Ireland. But to be fair to him, he had no issues in the other 4 games, and ended the championship with a great defensive performance against England, tracking back and making numerous cover tackles.

 

[Zed]

Yeah Cuthbert really messed up against Ireland. But to be fair to him, he had no issues in the other 4 games, and ended the championship with a great defensive performance against England, tracking back and making numerous cover tackles.

Ah OK. I didn't see all the games, only the Ire - Wales one.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Lads he's not only 1. Tuilagi, Stevens, Vunipolo, Hartley and Fatelau are foreign born. Ok they didn't play in super rugby etc but the argument is birth place yes. What I find strange is 2 cousins could be on opposing sides

I think the argument is a combination of performance, birth place, and time spent in Scotland. Birth place is probably the least concerning.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So let me get this straight, He's a rugby player, and by the rules of the IRB he is eligible to play for Scotland, and therefore also for the B&I Lions.

Yet, because he played in NZ and represented the Maori's he should be overlooked, based on some people's points of view. If that is the case, then that old can of worms with England and the many many SA guys in their team.

But hold on, it's not just Scotland and England that is on this bandwagon... Ireland are also in the mix, and Richardt Strauss is the perfect example. Even though he didn't make the cut for the B&I Lions. Would there have been the same disdain, if he for instance was selected, and the opponents were the Boks?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If that is the case, then that old can of worms with England and the many many SA guys in their team.

...one? Can't think of one other than Brad Barritt?

I have no real problem with Maitland being there. That he's represented NZ Maori irks me a little, but they're not an irb designated second side so rules is rules!

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[TRF_heineken]

...one? Can't think of one other than Brad Barritt?

I have no real problem with Maitland being there. That he's represented NZ Maori irks me a little, but they're not an irb designated second side so rules are rules!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

There, I fixed it...

 

[ratsapprentice]

But hold on, it's not just Scotland and England that is on this bandwagon... Ireland are also in the mix, and Richardt Strauss is the perfect example. Even though he didn't make the cut for the B&I Lions. Would there have been the same disdain, if he for instance was selected, and the opponents were the Boks?

I think Strauss would be thought of differently because he's "served his time" if you will, he hasn't (almost literally) just arrived...
I don't think people would be questioning Maitland had he been in really standout form, I think the nationality thing is brought up only because of that, not because people actually care.
For the most part anyway.

 

[nickdnz]

...one? Can't think of one other than Brad Barritt?

I have no real problem with Maitland being there. That he's represented NZ Maori irks me a little, but they're not an irb designated second side so rules is rules!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

Haha, hes not the first NZ Maori to be in the B&I Lions either. Riki Flutey being the other. Also Thomas Waldrom has played for them and he plays for England.

Always wondered why NZ Maori didn't include Maori's playing in other countries. Providing they could get time off from clubs to play for them..

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think Strauss would be thought of differently because he's "served his time" if you will, he hasn't (almost literally) just arrived...
I don't think people would be questioning Maitland had he been in really standout form, I think the nationality thing is brought up only because of that, not because people actually care.
For the most part anyway.

Yet both of them represented NZ and SA respectivley at u/19 level. What is the difference?? Time?? please, those guys go through such a horrible time to get where they are, now they have to go through an additional qualification round just to get the approval of certain NH fans?? That's is the definition of unfair biasness by some...

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yet both of them represented NZ and SA respectivley at u/19 level. What is the difference?? Time?? please, those guys go through such a horrible time to get where they are, now they have to go through an additional qualification round just to get the approval of certain NH fans?? That's is the definition of unfair biasness by some...

What?

 

[TRF_heineken]

What?

Do you think it's easy for these guys, who grew up dreaming to play for the Boks or All Blacks, to put it aside, knowing they are not good enough/too small/too slow/not in the national team's coach good books/not enough opportunities, and leave their family, friends, loved ones, place where they grew up, etc to go live and play in a foreign country from where his predecessors come from? Then adapting to all these knew things and still trying to focus on the main goal, to become an international superstar?

And then after this tough experience, they have to as you put it, "Serve Time" to show their patriotism towards their adopted country. I think they have shown much more commitment than some other "normal" citizens of the country...

 

[nickdnz]

Do you think it's easy for these guys, who grew up dreaming to play for the Boks or All Blacks, to put it aside, knowing they are not good enough/too small/too slow/not in the national team's coach good books/not enough opportunities, and leave their family, friends, loved ones, place where they grew up, etc to go live and play in a foreign country from where his predecessors come from? Then adapting to all these knew things and still trying to focus on the main goal, to become an international superstar?

And then after this tough experience, they have to as you put it, "Serve Time" to show their patriotism towards their adopted country. I think they have shown much more commitment than some other "normal" citizens of the country...

Don't know if I fully agree with this.

Thousands of New Zealand kids grow up wanting to be All Blacks. Some train from children to 30 year olds and don't even get close. In my mind they deserve it more than someone who is more talented but whose choice of being an All Blacks is more of a fleeting fancy or worse, a consolation prize from their real/original aspirations. I fully understand that. And there is a difference between a guy who has spent 7 years in a country, owns a house there, has their kids born and go to school there, know the countries history/politics/geography/atmosphere etc - to someone who jumps on a plane thinking their dream isn't going to come true, then be given the highest accolades for some possible within a very short period of time.

In this sense I have a lot of sympathy. I felt the same way watching SBW - who in my mind got a very easy ride to being an All Black on the back of comparatively little effort or commitment, regardless of talent. But as others have mentioned - I also agree that if a national coach says you are eligible, the rules say you are eligible, and the Lions coach thinks they are the best option - then by that right its a double standard not to pick him. What needs to change is the rules of selection in my opinion - not the selection of one particular player which meets the existing criteria.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Don't know if I fully agree with this.

Thousands of New Zealand kids grow up wanting to be All Blacks. Some train from children to 30 year olds and don't even get close. In my mind they deserve it more than someone who is more talented but whose choice of being an All Blacks is more of a fleeting fancy or worse, a consolation prize from their real/original aspirations. I fully understand that. And there is a difference between a guy who has spent 7 years in a country, owns a house there, has their kids born and go to school there, know the countries history/politics/geography/atmosphere etc - to someone who jumps on a plane thinking their dream isn't going to come true, then be given the highest accolades for some possible within a very short period of time.

In this sense I have a lot of sympathy. I felt the same way watching SBW - who in my mind got a very easy ride to being an All Black on the back of comparatively little effort or commitment, regardless of talent. But as others have mentioned - I also agree that if a national coach says you are eligible, the rules say you are eligible, and the Lions coach thinks they are the best option - then by that right its a double standard not to pick him. What needs to change is the rules of selection in my opinion - not the selection of one particular player which meets the existing criteria.

You don't have to agree with it, it's an opinion.

I also understand what you and so many others are saying. I also know that being picked for the B&I Lions is a step higher than being selected for their national team. Hell, some players might for once play in a winning team.

but the issue is Sean Maitland. he is family of Quade Cooper, He played for the Crusaders, he is a winger, he played for the Maoris. it boils down to the following:
1. He'll be playing against family (so what??)
2. He was a well known player before he went to Scotland
3. He is in a position which doesn't really have a shortage in the NH.
4. He can do the Haka

I wonder if he was family of Rod Kafer, played for Manuwatu, was a prop/scrumhalf/outside centre and was in Australia in school and instead of the Haka, learnt to sing waltzing matilda, would there have been a difference??

 

[dullonien]

For me it comes down to what Nick has pointed out, that it's obvious that his first option would have been to play for NZ, but because this didn't come quickly enough, he jumped ship in order to play international rugby with Scotland. I don't blame Scotland for selecting him because in all honestly they are lacking in quality wingers. But the Lions aren't really lacking in options.

Ultimately the eligibility criteria is what it is, and as such I don't disprove because of that, but because I think there are players more deserving. Wade and Zebo are two off the top of my head.

Maitland will probably now have an absolute stormer of a series, and no-one will care about any of this.