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Let me know when a modern day team plays with 14 men for at least 40 mins, beats a tier 1 team.
Just because the AB's never gets red cards, doesn't mean this hasn't happened yet...
Let me know when a modern day team plays with 14 men for at least 40 mins, beats a tier 1 team.
Yeah and thats fantastic but you get a red card against say the All Blacks and you have to play with 14 men for over 40 mins. Its almost an instant loss. You see what Im saying?Also this :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42963703
Club rugby I know, but proof that a side can be dominant even a man down
Disagree with the never. You know why.Just because the AB's never gets red cards, doesn't mean this hasn't happened yet...
Yeah I see what you mean. But it's almost an instant loss playing them anywayYeah and thats fantastic but you get a red card against say the All Blacks and you have to play with 14 men for over 40 mins. Its almost an instant loss. You see what Im saying?
Almost.Yeah I see what you mean. But it's almost an instant loss playing them anyway
Almost.
We can all agree that red cards can kill a game like it did on Saturday. What Im saying just adds to that. It doesn't have to be the All Blacks. It can be any team. As soon as you lose a player for over a whole half, you are almost certain to lose to England, Ireland, South Africa. Red cards are a bit too extreme.
And some of the red cards are just ridiculous. Check this one out below.
I can't see anyone beating NZ down a man, nor Ireland who have made an art of taking advantage of a man advantage as seen when the first half yellow card periods were the difference last Saturday. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, to beat the best side and the second best in the world you have to be near flawless from 1-15 and an individual can lose the game by getting charged down, throwing an intercept as well as dangerous play whether intentional, reckless or accidental.Thanks gents for that. And wow thats an incredible feat.
I guess my point I was tryin to make is that, you're almost certain to lose if you are playing with 14. Actually I'll use my team for an example, I probably should've did this before.
I don't think the All Blacks has lost to a team with 14 players in it for over 40 mins in recent times.
Wow that is a low amount. Im surprised.Why not add the Bismarck one to your collage?
But add to that. How many red cards have NZ gotten in Test rugby? well the answer is 3. Since 1925, New Zealand received a total of 3 red cards:
Cyril Brownlie (vs England), Twickenham Stadium, 1925
Colin Meads (vs Scotland), Murrayfield, 1967
Sonny Bill Williams (vs British & Irish Lions), Westpac Stadium, 2017
That's a very suspicious low amount...
Oh and now I see what you mean about before...with you saying 'we never get red cards'.Why not add the Bismarck one to your collage?
But add to that. How many red cards have NZ gotten in Test rugby? well the answer is 3. Since 1925, New Zealand received a total of 3 red cards:
Cyril Brownlie (vs England), Twickenham Stadium, 1925
Colin Meads (vs Scotland), Murrayfield, 1967
Sonny Bill Williams (vs British & Irish Lions), Westpac Stadium, 2017
That's a very suspicious low amount...
Watching both sports, I have to say that I'm not a big fan of it. It was introduced back in the day because a certain team was scoring too much during their power plays, but I think nowadays the sport would overall profit from more goals.Fair enough.
I picked that idea up from Ice Hockey's penalty box rule.
I have objected right from the outset at the stupidity of the current high catch Laws, right back from the first incident of note with Dan Biggar v Finn Russell in Wales v Scotland 2015 where Russell was yellow carded and copped a two week suspension for standing his ground while Dan Biggar who recklessly jumped at full speed from about 5m away putting everyone in danger, ended up pivoting over Russell and falling to the ground and got off scot free. I could not understand at the time how a player in motion (and not in possession) could wilfully charge into his opponent who was almost stationary (and also not possession) and it was somehow the opponent's fault, and I still can't. If the player can't do this to his opponent on the ground, why on earth should he be granted the right to do so merely because he recklessly jumps in a dangerous fashion at his opponent?
The better option IMO would be to either
a. ban jumping for a kicked ball altogether, or
b. only allow the non-kicking side to jump for a kicked ball.
At least that way, kick-chasers would know that the only way to contest the ball would be to tackle the catcher as his feet touch the ground.
I have been thinking long and hard about this problem for some time now. I think I have the basis for a solution that keeps the discipline, keep the sanctions for the really serious offenders, but allows the referees more latitude in deal with infringers fairly. I know this is never likely to be adopted or taken seriously by WR, but this is a discussion forum, so here goes.
The first thing is that IMO Rugby Union has a big problem with on field sanctions. You have penalty kick, yellow card and red card. The disparity between YC and RC is huge, you can get the same sanction for infringements as wide apart as mistiming contact with a jumping player (as we saw in the NZ v France game) and biting an opponents ear off or kicking his head into next Wednesday...there is nothing in between, and the earlier a RC given, the bigger the impact it has on the game. Its all very well saying, "well the player will get his punishment in the judiciary", but how is that fair on the rest of the players and the fans.
IMO, the Foul Play Law needs to be re-organsied to separate certain types of serious foul play from other less serious types. The overall Law (now Law 9 under the 2018 Laws) should be called Foul Play, and there should be three sections, Intentional Foul Play, Dangerous Play and Unfair Play. Also, while we keep the existing yellow and red sanction cards, we introduce a black card. The rationale behind this will be explained soon
Black Card: The player is sent from the field and is not replaced. This type of card is an automatic citing.
Red Card: The player is sent from the field for the rest of the game, but he may be replaced with another player after 10 minutes has expired. The replacement of that player costs the infringing team one of their replacements; if are there are no more replacements, the team plays one short. A Red Card is an automatic citing.
Yellow Card: Maximum 10 minute suspension from the game. The same player (or a replacement player) may come back onto the field when the 10 minutes expires. However, if the opposing team scores a try, the player may return to the field even if time has not expired (this does not apply to the red card)
Intentional Foul Play:
- All offences where the player intentionally strikes or assaults an opponent or an official
- This would be infringements such as striking, kicking, punching, biting, stomping, bag-snatching, eye-gouging, and intentional Dangerous Play.
- Intentional Foul Play would be the only category in which you can be given a black card.
Dangerous Play:
- All offences that occur in the normal course of play, where the infringer acts negligently or recklessly (but not intentionally) with potential to cause injury to an opponent.
- This would be infringements such as high tackle, early tackle, late tackle, tackling or playing an opponent without the ball, tackling or playing an opponent in the air, collapsing a ruck, maul or scrum, shoulder charge, no-wrap/no-arms tackle, tip tackles and kicking the ball out of the ball-carrier's hands.
- Dangerous Play, if serious, could result in a Yellow Card, and if serious enough could result in a Red Card,
- The referee can still show you a Black Card if he decides that your act of Dangerous Play was intentional.
Unfair Play:
- All infringements that are technical in nature with no risk of injury to an opponent
- This would be infringements such as intentional knock-forward, obstruction, knocking the ball into touch, touch in goal or over the dead ball line, simulation, time wasting, repeated infringing and misconduct.
- Unfair play, if intentional could result in a yellow card. A second yellow card offence would result in a red card.
I know there will be objections from some the usual suspects... "its too complicated" or "just what we need, more Law changes" but I also know that you usual suspects are the ones who whinge longest and loudest about the way the Laws are now, so don't complain when someone is willing to offer suggestions as to what to do about it.
If all you want to do is whinge, then don't bother wasting everyone's time, but if you have some constructive and/or positive contributions or suggestions to make, feel free to have at it.