What can WR do about Red Cards ruining games for the fans?

[Reiser99]

Nah Im saying what Ive said, Ive put in basic english and so there shouldnt be a need to twist what I said by adding 'elbow to the throat'.

Yeah like I said before, and Ill repeat again for you - a penalty only for me.

I'm not twisting your words, but more clarifying. You said:

A penalty for the raised elbow, yes...but a red card?

I added that the raised elbow made contact with the opposing players throat with force. If you want I'll screenshot the part where it happens. If it was a raised elbow that only connect with his chest then yeah, yellow for deliberate foul play. However it's dangerous and that makes it red.

 

[All Black]

I'm not twisting your words, but more clarifying. You said:


I added that the raised elbow made contact with the opposing players throat with force. If you want I'll screenshot the part where it happens. If it was a raised elbow that only connect with his chest then yeah, yellow for deliberate foul play. However it's dangerous and that makes it red.

It doesnt say 'throat' on my post you quoted. Throat was what you added. Come on now...

I also said 'despite the laws'. I know what the law says, it doesnt mean I agree with it. Re-read my post if you want.

 

[Reiser99]

What can WR do about Red Cards ruining games for the fans?
Well so far this thread has come up with more cards, more penalties and support of previous red cards.

Not from me however as I do believe the once rare occasion of a red card is now creating a lot more 14 players vs 15 games compared to yesteryear. Some of these offences are tiddlywinks IMO and thats where our game is headed.

Yes you are right, however I don't believe at any point the solution proposed has been 'relax the rules and just give out less cards' instead it has been about breaking down the infractions more so that there is a difference between intentional dangerous play, reckless play, professional fouls.

 

[Reiser99]

It doesnt say 'throat' on my post you quoted. Throat was what you added. Come on now...

I also said 'despite the laws'. I know what the law says, it doesnt mean I agree with it. Re-read my post if you want.

Lol I have and clearly you have not read mine. I said that I added the bit about the throat, because for me where his elbow ends up is what makes it a red card. You seem to be saying that it's just a raised elbow and where it makes contact with is irrelevant, but maybe I'm wrong and you can explain why elbowing someone in the throat is not dangerous. Or are you suggesting his elbow doesn't make contact with his throat, in which case, as I mentioned in my previous post which you clearly glossed over, I will screen shot when it happens.

 

[All Black]

Lol I have and clearly you have not read mine. I said that I added the bit about the throat, because for me where his elbow ends up is what makes it a red card. You seem to be saying that it's just a raised elbow and where it makes contact with is irrelevant, but maybe I'm wrong and you can explain why elbowing someone in the throat is not dangerous. Or are you suggesting his elbow doesn't make contact with his throat, in which case, as I mentioned in my previous post which you clearly glossed over, I will screen shot when it happens.

The elbow wasnt fully flexed. It was a fairly extended arm and this matters because it makes the elbow weak. IMO that should be a yellow card at the most. Like I said before - I know what the rules and despite that, I think in this case in particular, it shouldve been a penalty. Thats my opinion.

 

[All Black]

On another note...

Will we see teams celebrating when their opposition gets red carded?

It should be a benefit to have more players in your team than the opposition so why not high five each other for that?

Bad taste? Maybe for now but its been 2 years (I think) since these tighter laws have come in and more red cards have come out, soon red cards will be the norm. Then once 14 vs 15 becomes more accepted, I think it will be more celebrated like a try or a big play because that is a big turning point.

Im no nostradamus but just a thought.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

The elbow wasnt fully flexed. It was a fairly extended arm and this matters because it makes the elbow weak. IMO that should be a yellow card at the most. Like I said before - I know what the rules and despite that, I think in this case in particular, it shouldve been a penalty. Thats my opinion.

its very much bent and impacting elbow to throat....

edit. wont let me post a screen shot, 7sec into the vid looks pretty bad

 

[All Black]

its very much bent and impacting elbow to throat....

edit. wont let me post a screen shot, 7sec into the vid looks pretty bad

Yeah but no full flexion IMO, like the bicep hard up against the forearm.

 

[smartcooky]

It doesnt say 'throat' on my post you quoted. Throat was what you added. Come on now...

Does it really matter that you didn't say the word "throat" when the incident you referenced was one in which the player stuck his opponent with an elbow to the throat?

 

[RedruthRFC]

So you're saying that a raised arm/elbow to the throat, with force and speed, especially late when he had time to pull out, is a minor offence and on deserves a slap on the wrist? Maybe get forearmed to the throat first and then say it's a minor offence. It's dangerous and made worse by the way he chose to continue his run at full speed.

My interpretation (can you see what I did there?) is that she's saying that she is the sole arbiter of the laws of the game - a sanction that is entirely in line with everything from WR can be overruled if it seems "too harsh" to All Black.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Not sure what's changed but I think I'm finally seeing what fans of other countries say about so many nz fans, can't believe how many people I've heard basically saying the abs should get favourable treatment from the ref because they're better

 

[All Black]

Does it really matter that you didn't say the word "throat" when the incident you referenced was one in which the player stuck his opponent with an elbow to the throat?

I'm sorry but I'm not going to answer your question because I feel like I've already covered it in the posts above. I'd be just typing what I've already typed and I cant be stuffed copying and pasting.

When I first saw this live, I was wrapt but after reviewing it without my All Black goggles and more objectively, I personally think it was just a penalty and a warning.

Back to the elbow. After viewing another video, it seems to me that De Allendes elbow first point of contact, was on Sopoagas shoulder and then it becomes slightly raised after that and that could be accidental as De Allende hopped after the contact was made and Sopoaga was falling. To me it looked like De Allende, for the most part, was trying to break his fall.

Have a look at 0:28 and see if you can see what Im seeing...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You've been clutching at straws so much you could thatch a small cottage

 

[All Black]

You've been clutching at straws so much you could thatch a small cottage

Lol look whos talking.

Keep reading rage.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Lol look whos talking.

Keep reading rage.

"Look who's talking" that doesn't even make sense as a response, I haven't been clutching at anything.

 

[ncurd]

Surely if any part of someone arm from shoulder down to hand impacts someones throat (regardless of initial point of impact) with force its a red a card......

I'm fairly certain thats been a red card for a very long time.

 

[All Black]

"Look who's talking" that doesn't even make sense as a response, I haven't been clutching at anything.

I do and you don't right? lol. It makes perfect sense.

Lighten up a lil its just my honest opinion.

 

[All Black]

I'm fairly certain thats been a red card for a very long time.

So am I.

I can't be stuffed explaining it again. You'll just have to read all the posts.

Anyway back to the thread and moving on from this...360, explaining everything to every new reader. Anyone else got any ideas about what WR do about Red Cards ruining games for the fans? I've already expressed my opinions on some red cards.

 

[ncurd]

Nah I read everything you just came across as a complete tool.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I do and you don't right? lol. It makes perfect sense.

Lighten up a lil its just my honest opinion.

I'm not the one trying to find loads of excuses for why I'm right. A cheapshot leading to an elbow to the throat at speed = red, simple. Claiming I'm the one clutching is the equivalent of a child going "I know you are but what am I?" Just accept you are being a tool and move on.