Western Force officially dumped out of Super Rugby

[TRF_heineken]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/western-force-dumped-from-super-rugby-20170811

The ARU said it decided to discontinue the Force's Super Rugby licence following weeks of consultation with rugby bodies and stakeholders, including government and commercial partners.

So finally there is an answer.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Well at least it's done now. The speculation of who it was going to be was really hurting Australian rugby.

 

[Gavin]

Am I right in saying that the Western Force had a quality academy and were producing some great youngsters? I am sure I read that somewhere.

Question now is where does the Force players now move to? Off to the Rebels the more likely destination, or further afield?

Quite amazing when you think that the Force finished 2nd in the Australian standings and the only difference between them and the Brumbies was bonus points.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Am I right in saying that the Western Force had a quality academy and were producing some great youngsters? I am sure I read that somewhere.

Question now is where does the Force players now move to? Off to the Rebels the more likely destination, or further afield?

Quite amazing when you think that the Force finished 2nd in the Australian standings and the only difference between them and the Brumbies was bonus points.

Yeah, I really don't get why the Force was bundled out. And now all the Aussie teams are in the eastern part of the country. Making the travelling and even bigger obstacle than it was before.

But alas, one team had to go, and so it is the Force. At least they have now sorted out their mess...

 

[Car]

I'm not so sure if they should take up legal action. I'm glad the Rebels get to stay, but it seems to me they actually did more to avoid the cut. I'd love to know what the real reasons were and why it took so long.

 

[Car]

Pulver will step down and the Force said they will appeal:
http://www.espn.com.au/rugby/story/_/id/20310635/aru-chief-bill-pulver-step-down

 

[galumay]

The ARU had to dump the Force because legally they couldnt dump the Rebels due to the issues around private ownership and they didnt have the balls to do the right thing and merge the Bush Ponies with the Tahs - which was the only really logical solution. Now further harm has been done to the game in Aus. I guess the only good news was Pulver's resignation, but whether anyone with any vision for the future of the game gets the role is the big unknown.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

There doesn't appear to be even be an explanation for why the Force have been selected over other sides. It's just "tough luck, cheerio". From the outside it doesn't make sense in terms of any of the following:

- on field performance
- crowds relative to on field performance
- size of potential market
- youth development
- producing Wallabies
- territorial saturation

I can only assume that there aren't any connections to Perth among senior management of the ARU and that travel to and from Perth costs more than to the east of the country?

I think this decision will hold back the recovery of Australian rugby union over the coming decade.

The third biggest city (in financial terms) in Super Rugby has also just been eliminated, which probably isn't brilliant for the long term health of the tournament either.

Hopefully Super Rugby and the ARU can regain health so at some point Perth can be back on the menu.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Could it be a case of that seeing as rugby union is dying in Oz, the ARU can now focus all of their attention on re-growing the sport in the East, a case of cutting off an arm to save the rest of the body. If that's the case then fair enough, desperate times call for desperate measures, but they owe it to the Force players and fans to at least come out and say it how it is.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Could it be a case of that seeing as rugby union is dying in Oz, the ARU can now focus all of their attention on re-growing the sport in the East, a case of cutting off an arm to save the rest of the body. If that's the case then fair enough, desperate times call for desperate measures, but they owe it to the Force players and fans to at least come out and say it how it is.

By that argument, it makes even less sense. It's not like the pool of players will all of a sudden grow just in the eastern part of the country.

Perth has also a very large South African Expat Community, and a lot of their kids are playing rugby in Western Australia, the market wouldn't be as saturated there than it is in the eastern part.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

This is only going to damage Aus rugby even further. The Force were a much more valuable club to Aus rugby than the Rebels. An absolute shame.

 

[galumay]

The demise of Australian Rugby is deeply disturbing for the future of the game we love, its offset a little by the growth of new countries becoming more competitive, and the popularity of spin off games like 7's, but the near death of what was one of the powerhouses of world rugby will have wider ramifications than many have realised.

There are some seismic shifts going on, the logical move of SA moving to play in European leagues, the almost total irrelevance of Australian Super Rugby teams, and the utter mismanagement of Super Rugby by SANZAR are all factors that provide a massive threat to the game in the SH and NZ rugby in particular. NZ rugby needs a strong and competitive Super Rugby comp, and it needs healthy competition from other SH national sides - if there is a vacuum between provincial and international rugby then surely the AB's will suffer.

I know we have had this discussion before and the Kiwi view in the main seems to be "ARU created the mess, not our problem, dont care" - so we will have to agree to disagree about that, but this latest decision does show that the ARU are in no way competent to run our sport in this country, I dont believe they even spent any time or effort considering the 'harder' but 'wiser' options for rationalising the teams in Australia. They were like rabbits in headlights, it had to be the Rebels or the Force that went because they were the 2 franchises with the least political influence in the ARU, and it couldn't be the Rebels because of the legal issues with ownership, so the worst possible decision for the future of the game was made in the interests of expediency and politics.

From the little info I got out of my contacts in the heirachy of the ARU, no consideration at all was given to merging because the franchises with the political control of the ARU flat out refused to discuss it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record this meant the option of merging the Brumbies & Tah's and retaining both the Force and Rebels, an option that would have been the best possible for the future of our game, was not even on the table.

 

[smartcooky]

This is only going to damage Aus rugby even further. The Force were a much more valuable club to Aus rugby than the Rebels. An absolute shame.

The Force brought a number of important things to Super Rugby and to the ARU, not least of which was a pathway for young talent in the Perth and Freemantle areas. Most importantly, Rugby's prime competitor, Rugby League, has no professional presence in Western Australia. They also brought a stop off point for Aussie East Coast, New Zealand and South African franchises, making travel for some teams during the regular season a little easier.

The Melbourne Rebels bring nothing to the table, and they have ZERO chance of garnering greater following or growing the game in Melbourne. There is is just too much overwhelming competition with AFL, VFL, Football and Rugby League taking 95% of the winter sports market. Rugby Union is not even on the radar in Victoria. I was in Melbourne a couple of years ago during the Super Rugby season..... NO local radio coverage, NO TV coverage and getting results from the Newspapers was a no-go. I finally got come results from the SMH. I did eventually find Super Rugby mentioned the sports section of The Age; two column-inches of scores buried near the bottom of page eleventy-twelve!

The ARU have made the wrong decision, they should have dumped the forever under-performing Rebels.

Perhaps The Force could join the Japan Top league? (I am NOT kidding)

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Seems my paranoia might not be without foundation. An ARU board member resigns with some parting shots, most notably:

"An appropriate consultation process was never in place and in my view the Western Force was always being targeted for removal. This was simply because they were seen to be the easiest to remove contractually but they were not the team that deserved to be removed. The process lacked due diligence and contained significant levels of bias."

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/stooke-resigns-from-aru-board/

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

The Force brought a number of important things to Super Rugby and to the ARU, not least of which was a pathway for young talent in the Perth and Freemantle areas. Most importantly, Rugby's prime competitor, Rugby League, has no professional presence in Western Australia. They also brought a stop off point for Aussie East Coast, New Zealand and South African franchises, making travel for some teams during the regular season a little easier.

The Melbourne Rebels bring nothing to the table, and they have ZERO chance of garnering greater following or growing the game in Melbourne. There is is just too much overwhelming competition with AFL, VFL, Football and Rugby League taking 95% of the winter sports market. Rugby Union is not even on the radar in Victoria. I was in Melbourne a couple of years ago during the Super Rugby season..... NO local radio coverage, NO TV coverage and getting results from the Newspapers was a no-go. I finally got come results from the SMH. I did eventually find Super Rugby mentioned the sports section of The Age; two column-inches of scores buried near the bottom of page eleventy-twelve!

The ARU have made the wrong decision, they have dumped the forever under-performing Rebels.

Perhaps The Force could join the Japan Top league? (I am NOT kidding)

Yup my thoughts exactly. As I said, it's an absolute shame.

 

[smartcooky]

Seems my paranoia might not be without foundation. An ARU board member resigns with some parting shots, most notably:

"An appropriate consultation process was never in place and in my view the Western Force was always being targeted for removal. This was simply because they were seen to be the easiest to remove contractually but they were not the team that deserved to be removed. The process lacked due diligence and contained significant levels of bias."

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/stooke-resigns-from-aru-board/

"I never wanted to throw any team under the 'bus' but to create a situation that considers retaining a team that has lost almost $30million (including nearly $17.5million additional cost to the ARU) since 2011 at the expense of a team that has incurred additional cost to the ARU of only $5.5million since 2005 is outrageous! We should be rewarding success not failure.

Holy Shamoli! Really? By my quick back of the envelope calculation, the Force cost $417,000 p.a. in additional costs, the, Rebels cost $6 million... over 14 times as much.

IMO, the whole ARU board should resign in shame for what they have done.

This whole problem came about because SARU and ARU insisted on having more teams when it was clear to anyone with an ounce of commonsense that they would be unable to support those extra teams both financially and in player quality. I recall the NZRU warning them both that this was going to end in disaster. I also remember posting to that effect on this very forum a few years ago and being roundly criticized and shouted down... well look what's happened folks.

 

[RoosTah]

The Force brought a number of important things to Super Rugby and to the ARU, not least of which was a pathway for young talent in the Perth and Freemantle areas. Most importantly, Rugby's prime competitor, Rugby League, has no professional presence in Western Australia. They also brought a stop off point for Aussie East Coast, New Zealand and South African franchises, making travel for some teams during the regular season a little easier.

Yep, and you bet your arse the NRL will be looking at this an licking their lips. Particularly with this sort of response from the WA gov:

WA Govt response

PREMIER Mark McGowan has exacted swift revenge on the Australian Rugby Union for its decision to axe the Western Force by scrapping a deal to bring forward a $4 million payment to stage the Bledisloe Cup at Perth Stadium.
While the blockbuster match between the Wallabies and All Blacks will still go-ahead in Perth in 2019, the WA Government is no longer willing to agree to the cash-strapped ARU's request to make early payments.
Mr McGowan also revealed the Government was re-visiting commitments made to WA several years ago by the ARU when the State agreed to pour millions into rugby in WA, including a $95 million upgrade to nib Stadium.
"Over the years the State had invested a significant amount of money towards the Force," Mr McGowan said.
"What we'll do is get to the bottom of any undertakings the ARU gave the State Government that underpinned the decisions to pour millions of dollars of taxpayers' money into rugby."
Apart from a $95 million upgrade to nib Stadium, that investment included $17 million into the Western Force headquarters and $25 million towards the Super Rugby licence.

Deputy Premier Roger Cook, who is a foundation member of the Western Force, said he would "boycott" rugby.
"I'll never go to another Wallabies game for the rest of my life as a result of this decision. I've decided I'm going back to rugby league now in WA because the NRL is clearly supporting WA much more than the ARU is," he said.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...u/news-story/16a9799fb57788f1126109634b06becf

 

[smartcooky]

Yep, and you bet your arse the NRL will be looking at this an licking their lips. Particularly with this sort of response from the WA gov:

Christ, it goes from bad to worse for the ARU!!

 

[mdaclarke]

The demise of Australian Rugby is deeply disturbing for the future of the game we love, its offset a little by the growth of new countries becoming more competitive, and the popularity of spin off games like 7's, but the near death of what was one of the powerhouses of world rugby will have wider ramifications than many have realised.

There are some seismic shifts going on, the logical move of SA moving to play in European leagues, the almost total irrelevance of Australian Super Rugby teams, and the utter mismanagement of Super Rugby by SANZAR are all factors that provide a massive threat to the game in the SH and NZ rugby in particular. NZ rugby needs a strong and competitive Super Rugby comp, and it needs healthy competition from other SH national sides - if there is a vacuum between provincial and international rugby then surely the AB's will suffer.

I know we have had this discussion before and the Kiwi view in the main seems to be "ARU created the mess, not our problem, dont care" - so we will have to agree to disagree about that, but this latest decision does show that the ARU are in no way competent to run our sport in this country, I dont believe they even spent any time or effort considering the 'harder' but 'wiser' options for rationalising the teams in Australia. They were like rabbits in headlights, it had to be the Rebels or the Force that went because they were the 2 franchises with the least political influence in the ARU, and it couldn't be the Rebels because of the legal issues with ownership, so the worst possible decision for the future of the game was made in the interests of expediency and politics.

From the little info I got out of my contacts in the heirachy of the ARU, no consideration at all was given to merging because the franchises with the political control of the ARU flat out refused to discuss it. At the risk of sounding like a broken record this meant the option of merging the Brumbies & Tah's and retaining both the Force and Rebels, an option that would have been the best possible for the future of our game, was not even on the table.

I think the biggest losers long term will be the New Zealanders, the demise of Super Rugby (if it happens) will mean that they can no longer afford to keep their players in New Zealand, this means that the selection rules will either need to change or the All Blacks will get weaker. Conversely the biggest winners are likely to be the South African's as they can play in the European Leagues due to the time zones, they will make a lot more revenue especially if they can play in the European Cup. This will mean they can keep their players and have a strong Springboks.

 

[galumay]

I think the biggest losers long term will be the New Zealanders

I agree, and have been making the point for some time. To be fair the response from the Kiwis is twofold, "not our problem", which i think is naive, and "what can we do about it?" - and thats not easy to answer. Given that the ARU have shown themselves to be structurally disfunctional and incapable of governing the game in Australia, its highly unlikely they would take advice from the Kiwis about fixing things!.

My belief is that cutting one franchise will make next to no difference, we need an intermediate provincial comp like the Mitre 10 cup - and I believe the best solution would be to expand the Mitre 10 cup to include a group of Aussie teams, (and maybe some Pacific Island ones too), this would provide a much stronger feeder comp than the woeful NRC.
If that were done and at the same time the Brumbies & Tahs were combined, and the Reds & Rebels, while retaining the Force then we would have 3 pretty strong Super teams.
I would also dump the experiment with the Jaguares and Japan, which would help with the travel. Its all kite flying though, because none of it is ever going to happen.

We live in interesting - and challenging- times!