Welsh Rugby Stuff

[dullonien]

It's auto correct...

I type rage filled mostly so my accuracy and spelling are atrocious. My phone dictates a lot of the details of what I say lol

Ah, gotchya. I've turned autocorrect off, but it does mean I end up with lots of mistakes, especially towards the centre of the keyboard.

 

[dirty harry]

Ah, gotchya. I've turned autocorrect off, but it does mean I end up with lots of mistakes, especially towards the centre of the keyboard.

I'm not sure if it's my age, but I seem to miss space bar constantly these days, and letters like n c or b seem to replace it...

Especially when angry hahahaha

 

[Weldit]

I'm not sure who or what, but after this six nations performance we desperately need the WRU to show some accountability and action. No more half measures, no more guessing, we need to see a realistic goal for welsh rugby and how they are going to do it. Regardless of who they annoy or upset in process. If they're not up to the job, they need to leave immediately.

Adding to this...

I think we need to put to bed this discussion on removing a region. I've never understood why people think this would work and it didn't really help last time either. It might help in the short term, but long term it might potentially kill off another group of talent or support for the sport. The lack of money doesn't help, but I don't think that's the issue here. Something must be going wrong further down the chain in all this for the state of the game to be so bad.

 

[dullonien]

Adding to this...

I think we need to put to bed this discussion on removing a region. I've never understood why people think this would work and it didn't really help last time either. It might help in the short term, but long term it might potentially kill off another group of talent or support for the sport. The lack of money doesn't help, but I don't think that's the issue here. Something must be going wrong further down the chain in all this for the state of the game to be so bad.

I don't think it should be ruled out. We need drastic changes here to turn this around, and the stark reality is there simply isn't enough supporters in South Wales to support 4 professional sides. How you do that without alienating another group of supporters? I don't really know. East, West, Central regions in South Wales would make sense, but Cardiff's current attendances is one of the few positives in Welsh rugby recently, so retaining a side playing at CAP would be a must imo. Swansea is the next largest population base, so retaining a side there would then make sense.

Being brutally honest, when you look at Wales' spread of population, only 2 sides in South Wales really makes sense, unless you can re-kindle the valleys hotbeds with a side based in or around Merthyr - attendances were poor at the Celtic Warriors though, so that's failed once already!

Still, a concentration of talent and money would provide the short term shot in the arm I think Welsh rugby needs at professional level (combined with improved coaching at the regions and massive restructuring of player pathways); BUT, a plan would be needed to return to 4 professional sides within the next decade, ideally in North Wales to try and engage the other quarter of our population.

 

[Weldit]

I don't think it should be ruled out. We need drastic changes here to turn this around, and the stark reality is there simply isn't enough supporters in South Wales to support 4 professional sides. How you do that without alienating another group of supporters? I don't really know. East, West, Central regions in South Wales would make sense, but Cardiff's current attendances is one of the few positives in Welsh rugby recently, so retaining a side playing at CAP would be a must imo. Swansea is the next largest population base, so retaining a side there would then make sense.

Being brutally honest, when you look at Wales' spread of population, only 2 sides in South Wales really makes sense, unless you can re-kindle the valleys hotbeds with a side based in or around Merthyr - attendances were poor at the Celtic Warriors though, so that's failed once already!

Still, a concentration of talent and money would provide the short term shot in the arm I think Welsh rugby needs at professional level (combined with improved coaching at the regions and massive restructuring of player pathways); BUT, a plan would be needed to return to 4 professional sides within the next decade, ideally in North Wales to try and engage the other quarter of our population.

*Edited for clarity*
I'm not against removing clubs, but they need to make a decision. If they're going to, how will it work? Where will the youth go once they're ready to progress? With more limited options on the table, they might just give up.

I think Wales has the interest for rugby, but like a lot of the UK, it's not strong enough within each community to support so many professional clubs. Maybe instead of removing regions they should drop them down a league and focus on keep the top ones going strong? That way they don't alienate a chunk of fans/youth and there's always chance to pull the clubs back up if the moment arrives.

 

[dullonien]

I think the whole of the UK has this issue with Rugby. A lot of people do like the sport, but not enough to sustain so many professional clubs. The WRU just needs to pick a lane already and actually go through with it. They've been a flag in the wind for far too long. If they're going to cut pro clubs, they'll need to loosen the rules around welsh players playing outside of Wales and actually demonstrate how this direction will work. The biggest issue in doing so, will be retaining youth players as I can see many just giving up with so few options for them.

Keeping Cardiff and a Swansea based team makes sense, but I don't see the support to create a Northern Wales team myself. The interest just isn't there.

There isn't tons of opportunities at pro clubs in England for Welsh youngsters, so I don't think there'll be a bigger exodus. Most are moving on scholarships to priave schools or to English universities. We need to find a way of retaining more of them via better links with Welsh universities for example. Not sure how to retain the 12y/o's going for schollarships though (Tuipolotu for example), becsuse we simply don't have many private schools like that to retain them.

Players are currently playing pro rugby at a region before they're ready. Most of them need to be playing at Super Rygbi Cymru level, improving that semi-pro level, and then coming into a region when they've proved themselves. They would also be coming into a better environment with quality around them. = better chance of succeeding and flourishing.

If the regions can become competative / succesful, then youngsters would be despirate to be involved as well. And by extension we can lapse the restrictions on playing abroad because the regions will have money and quality rugby to retain players.

 

[Weldit]

There isn't tons of opportunities at pro clubs in England for Welsh youngsters, so I don't think there'll be a bigger exodus. Most are moving on scholarships to priave schools or to English universities. We need to find a way of retaining more of them via better links with Welsh universities for example. Not sure how to retain the 12y/o's going for schollarships though (Tuipolotu for example), becsuse we simply don't have many private schools like that to retain them.

Players are currently playing pro rugby at a region before they're ready. Most of them need to be playing at Super Rygbi Cymru level, improving that semi-pro level, and then coming into a region when they've proved themselves. They would also be coming into a better environment with quality around them. = better chance of succeeding and flourishing.

If the regions can become competative / succesful, then youngsters would be despirate to be involved as well. And by extension we can lapse the restrictions on playing abroad because the regions will have money and quality rugby to retain players.

Do you think instead of removing the regions, dropping some to a lower league might help? Cost cutting, but at least it's dormant.

 

[dullonien]

Do you think instead of removing the regions, dropping some to a lower league might help? Cost cutting, but at least it's dormant.

I don't think you can mix regions and clubs in that way. Although I've just realised they already are with RGC, but that was a new region in the north where there was no previous rivalry.

I don't see it working down South. E.g. Newport already have a side in SRC, so it would conflict if Dragons dropped down.

 

[higgik]

I don't think it should be ruled out. We need drastic changes here to turn this around, and the stark reality is there simply isn't enough supporters in South Wales to support 4 professional sides. How you do that without alienating another group of supporters? I don't really know. East, West, Central regions in South Wales would make sense, but Cardiff's current attendances is one of the few positives in Welsh rugby recently, so retaining a side playing at CAP would be a must imo. Swansea is the next largest population base, so retaining a side there would then make sense.

Being brutally honest, when you look at Wales' spread of population, only 2 sides in South Wales really makes sense, unless you can re-kindle the valleys hotbeds with a side based in or around Merthyr - attendances were poor at the Celtic Warriors though, so that's failed once already!

Still, a concentration of talent and money would provide the short term shot in the arm I think Welsh rugby needs at professional level (combined with improved coaching at the regions and massive restructuring of player pathways); BUT, a plan would be needed to return to 4 professional sides within the next decade, ideally in North Wales to try and engage the other quarter of our population.

Going to 2 pro teams would also mean better wages, so keep higher quality players in these teams. The quality would also go up as only half the players would get contracts.

Cardiff Dragons at CAP
Swansea Bay Scarlets @ PyS

SRC beneath this with 8 teams supported by WRU. Aim being to use as development league.

 

[dirty harry]

Going to 2 pro teams would also mean better wages, so keep higher quality players in these teams. The quality would also go up as only half the players would get contracts.

Cardiff Dragons at CAP
Swansea Bay Scarlets @ PyS

SRC beneath this with 8 teams supported by WRU. Aim being to use as development league.

For about 7 years, until the quality drops, the money dries up and we are exactly where we are now with 2 teams instead of 4.

Remember you'll alienate all dragons fans, and all swansea, neath AND Scarlets fans with this plan...

It'll be Cardiff rugby, and a semi pro team out west.

 

[higgik]

For about 7 years, until the quality drops, the money dries up and we are exactly where we are now with 2 teams instead of 4.

Remember you'll alienate all dragons fans, and all swansea, neath AND Scarlets fans with this plan...

It'll be Cardiff rugby, and a semi pro team out west.

Why, Scotland seems to have done it and maybe keeping the club game amateur will allow smaller towns to 'beat up' the big city boys once in a while.
The top level should be focused on being a shop window for the 'best' in Wales, while the club game is the main driver of development.

 

[dirty harry]

Why, Scotland seems to have done it and maybe keeping the club game amateur will allow smaller towns to 'beat up' the big city boys once in a while.
The top level should be focused on being a shop window for the 'best' in Wales, while the club game is the main driver of development

That's what was said of regionalism, centre the funding, centre the talent and compete on the European stage.

That Ospreys team was stacked, but as usual it was mismanaged, lost money hand over fist and degraded into the mess it is now, as have all the regions. Why would we believe having 2 regions would go any way different?

plus from an int point if view, only having 2 spots per position playing and managed in Wales is suicide. Take Scotland as an example, flying high at the minute but they have a ceiling, and they've won nothing and made no RWC semis since they joined a celtic league in 99? That's been the highlight of their century, and it wasn't this one.

 

[dullonien]

For about 7 years, until the quality drops, the money dries up and we are exactly where we are now with 2 teams instead of 4.

Remember you'll alienate all dragons fans, and all swansea, neath AND Scarlets fans with this plan...

It'll be Cardiff rugby, and a semi pro team out west.

Yeah that's the issue. The previous 20 years were based on the quality generated by condensing 13(?) sides to 5 then 4. But there was no plan of how to maintain that quality, instead it's slowly diminished, and here we are.

It's why I would only be happy temporarily reducing to 3 sides, with a plan to get back to 4 in time.

Also, the level below is vitally important. Rhe quality of the second tier in Wales has been pathetic for years.

I think the shift to SRC was a positive move, even if it maybe wasn't done in the best way. But we now need that league to develop regional-ready players. Regional squad players should be playing regularly at this level to drive standards, and Welsh coaches need to be nurtured too. E.g. Tipuric should be cutting his teeth in SRC next season before transitioning to a regional coaching position.

Maybe then a 2, 2+1, or 3 region system could work. But SRC would need to be at or nwar the levels the regions are currently at. Then you have 2 or 3 well funded, well run regions capable of competing for ***les.

Underpin all that with a return of the central academy of excellence where players of the future are nurtured - but actually play in the SRC.

Another idea, bear with me on this one, perhaps the regional sides squad sizes could be kept intentionally quite small, but then allow them to temporarily bring any player in from SRC should they need someone to cover injury.

I'm nor sure whether that would work, as some players could find themselves playing for one region one week and then anothee the next. But I'm thinking it would allow the quality at the regions to stay aa high as possible, and really incentivise good performances in SRC, as it'll always be a shop window.