Weakest position in the All Blacks squad

[TRF_stormer2010]

On a serious note I dont think ABs really have a weak spot while looking ahead hooker and center could become areas of concern.

There is no shortage of quality centers but like stated some of them are currently unavailable (SBW, Ranger and Ellison). I don't believe they won't come into play again soon enough. ATM they have Hore as probably no 1 but with both Hore and Mealamu on their way out it remains to be seen if they can develop a world class rake. TBH all he really needs to do is throw in straight and scrum solidly while not dropping off of tackles like Jannie du Plessis as there are ball carriers and jackals enough elsewhere.

Mainly I don't see problems ahead because it is known where they have to shore up; two years ago there was concern over whether Carter and McCaw will make it while Brad Thorn and Kaino were on their way out; up step Cruden, Barrett and if he can stay fit probably Slade as well and joining them is Cane at openside and oh, look, between Whitelock and Retalick they probably have a stronger 2nd row than when Thorn was almost alone in the 2nd row. Now there is back-up to Kaino as well with Kaino probably on his way back and in Read they have a captain every bit as intelegent and able on the field as McCaw...

So,no, no probs for the Ab's soon.

 

[Big Ewis]

Heaven forbid!! This is the All Blacks we should be talking about! My most profuse apologies!!!

but srsly though, what do you think of Mark Wahlberg as an actor ?

P.S.: I do seriously respect forums and threads, I'm done !

 

[jessta]

Can someone tell me what is wrong with quentin mcdonald as a hooker? He seems to be the goods

 

[ABs2011]

Rene Ranger could play at 12, and also Robbie Fruean too, both have the size and ability to do so. I'm talking long term, for the next RWC, I know that Ranger has a contract in France and Robbie had a heart surgery recently. What I mean is that currently Nonu has replacement: Francis Saili and Charles Piutau, Conrad doesn't.

And you will say that Charles is not a centre. I know, but he can play there. Steve Hansen believes that Charles could play there, then he's in the bench, right? Suppose that the next game is injured Nonu, who will take his place? There are 2 players on the bench: Charles Piutau or Beauden Barrett

Cheers

You certainly like to play players out of their position dont you!

Could you name a time when Ranger, Fruean or Piutau has played at 12?

I'll just point out that just because Piutau is on the bench, does not, and would not mean he would play 12 if Nonu got injured in game. The most likely scenario is Barrett would come on and he or Cruden would shift to 12. The other option would be to bring on Piutau, play him at wing and shuffle every one in one.

 

[ABs2011]

Conrad is irreplaceable, he's one of the best centres I've seen in my life. He's smart, he organizes the defense, he can attack and he's very effective.

If Nonu is injured, there are many powerful centres that can take his place: SBW, Rene Ranger, Robbie Fruean, Saili and others but if Conrad is injured, there is nobody like him, for this reason is the most important player among the backs.

He has no marketing as other players but ABs will miss him when he retires

The one thing I do agree with is that, hence why I think it is our weakest position. At hooker we have replacements - at centre we dont.

Also just to point out the 2nd back up at 12 is probably Crotty.

 

[Larksea]

Can someone tell me what is wrong with Quentin mcdonald as a hooker? He seems to be the goods

he is a good hooker and simply has not been given the chances he should have, lots of time on the bench behind Flynn in super rugby. Was last year flynn got injured early in the game and Quentin got almost a full game and was basically man of the match for the crusaders but flynn was soon fit and Quentin back warming the bench.

He moved to the blues but could not get past parsons who to be honest performed very well.

I dont see him as a potential AB anymore. Coltman and Marshall look like great prospects, Coltman is basically ready to make a step up and be part of the All Black squad now IMO.

 

[Jaguares]

You certainly like to play players out of their position dont you!

Could you name a time when Ranger, Fruean or Piutau has played at 12?

I'll just point out that just because Piutau is on the bench, does not, and would not mean he would play 12 if Nonu got injured in game. The most likely scenario is Barrett would come on and he or Cruden would shift to 12. The other option would be to bring on Piutau, play him at wing and shuffle every one in one.

What would happen if in the next game, Cruden and Nonu are injured after 10 minutes of play and both leave the field?

Look at the bench:

16.Dane Coles 17.Wyatt Crockett, 18.Ben Franks, 19.Jeremy Thrush, 20.Steven Luatua, 21.Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22.Beauden Barrett, 23.Charles Piutau.

Who would take the place of Cruden? and who would take the place of Nonu? You only have 3 backs on the bench.

I think Steve Hansen thinks like me. Piutau could play at 12.


Cheers

 

[ABs2011]

What would happen if in the next game, Cruden and Nonu are injured after 10 minutes of play and both leave the field?

Look at the bench:

16.Dane Coles 17.Wyatt Crockett, 18.Ben Franks, 19.Jeremy Thrush, 20.Steven Luatua, 21.Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22.Beauden Barrett, 23.Charles Piutau.

Who would take the place of Cruden? and who would take the place of Nonu? You only have 3 backs on the bench.

I think Steve Hansen thinks like me. Piutau could play at 12.


Cheers

I very much doubt it. Firstly why play a guy so far out of position? Secondly, why play your least experienced guy so far out of position? Neither makes any sense at all.

Obviously in your hypothetical situation an outside back will have to switch in. Barrett would come on at 10 and the most logical choice for 12 would be Ben smith. He has played in the centres before (Piutau hasn't at the top level) and he is a way more experienced player and would likely cope with the challenge much better.

I'm sorry but I simply don't see any logic in playing Piutau at 12 and I very much doubt Hansen would either at this point in time.

Remember that while in Rugby you almost always have 3 back replacements (usually a half back a first five and one more) it doesn't mean that you have to make direct swaps in the advent of injury.

EDIT: By the way, bench is 16. Keven Mealamu, 17. Wyatt Crockett, 18. Charlie Faumuina, 19. Jeremy Thrush, 20. Steven Luatua, 21. Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22. Beauden Barrett, 23. Charles Piutau as far as I'm aware...

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I very much doubt it. Firstly why play a guy so far out of position? Secondly, why play your least experienced guy so far out of position? Neither makes any sense at all.

Obviously in your hypothetical situation an outside back will have to switch in. Barrett would come on at 10 and the most logical choice for 12 would be Ben smith. He has played in the centres before (Piutau hasn't at the top level) and he is a way more experienced player and would likely cope with the challenge much better.

I'm sorry but I simply don't see any logic in playing Piutau at 12 and I very much doubt Hansen would either at this point in time.

Remember that while in Rugby you almost always have 3 back replacements (usually a half back a first five and one more) it doesn't mean that you have to make direct swaps in the advent of injury.

EDIT: By the way, bench is 16. Keven Mealamu, 17. Wyatt Crockett, 18. Charlie Faumuina, 19. Jeremy Thrush, 20. Steven Luatua, 21. Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22. Beauden Barrett, 23. Charles Piutau as far as I'm aware...

I agree with Conrad Smith. What happens if Cruden, Nonu, the three Smiths and Savea all get injured? Obviously Steve Hansen sees Piutau as capable as covering all the backline positions. It's the only possibility.

 

[ABs2011]

I agree with Conrad Smith. What happens if Cruden, Nonu, the three Smiths and Savea all get injured? Obviously Steve Hansen sees Piutau as capable as covering all the backline positions. It's the only possibility.

Haha Yes, but obviously Dagg would play 12

With Piutau on his inside and outside!

 

[Jaguares]

I agree with Conrad Smith. What happens if Cruden, Nonu, the three Smiths and Savea all get injured? Obviously Steve Hansen sees Piutau as capable as covering all the backline positions. It's the only possibility.

This is rugby, buddy. Injuries are things of all games, Tom Taylor had to play because the Top 3 of first 5/8 were injured. So when I say that 2 players could be injured in the same game, I say this with all seriousness.

Cheers

 

[jessta]

theres no denying hansen sees piutau as an emergency option to cover the centers, im pretty sure he even said so in an interview, however in the case of cruden and nonu going down i think piutau would move to the wing and ben smith would go to inside centre. just seems like a more logical move, considering hes played there at a professional level before

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

We have plenty of young hookers who are quite good, the only reason why we tend to think we are weak in that position is because, mealamu and hore set the bar high, and because there have not been many young talents introduced into the ABs, even though we have several.

Like some previous poster said, all they (nz hookers) have to learn is to throw the ball in straight and scrum well enough on our put in, because every hooker in our super rugby teams are well skilled and are capable of being in the AB squad e.g Q.Mcdonald, Parsons, Coltman, Elliot, Matu'u,, etc. All talented guys.

 

[ABs2011]

This is rugby, buddy. Injuries are things of all games, Tom Taylor had to play because the Top 3 of first 5/8 were injured. So when I say that 2 players could be injured in the same game, I say this with all seriousness.

Cheers

He's just taking the **** a bit mate (regarding to what extent you need to create a hypothetical situation in which Piutau would end up playing 12).

The reality is, Piutau wont be playing 12 at this point in time...maybe later once he is a bit more experienced and once he has had some time at centre (particularly if Benji Marshal finds his home at 15 for the Blues)...but for now, experience players like Ben Smith and Israel Dagg would be the ones to shift way out of position to cover an extreme in game injury situation. Dagg at a pinch would play 10 for example, Ben Smith could cover the rest of the backline so you'd have to come up with some pretty crazy hypothetical situation where Nonu, Ben smith and Dagg are injured before Piutau switches in to cover 12...

 

[dasNdanger]

We have plenty of young hookers who are quite good, the only reason why we tend to think we are weak in that position is because, mealamu and hore set the bar high, and because there have not been many young talents introduced into the ABs, even though we have several.

Like some previous poster said, all they (nz hookers) have to learn is to throw the ball in straight and scrum well enough on our put in, because every hooker in our super rugby teams are well skilled and are capable of being in the AB squad e.g Q.Mcdonald, Parsons, Coltman, Elliot, Matu'u,, etc. All talented guys.

I was just going to ask what really is so special about a hooker. Seems to me that it's a relatively 'easy' spot to fill. Straight throw-ins don't seem too difficult. Now with the new scrum laws maybe the whole hooking thing will become more of an issue for hookers, but overall it seems a role just about any forward could easily step into with a minimal of training.

Of course, having not actually played the game I could be very wrong. Sometimes - and no offense to you forwards out there - I think of the scrum pack, especially that front row, as a bunch of Neanderthals. Not the sharpest quills on the porcupine, as it were. I've since been corrected in this regard as to the value of the props (here: http://www.therugbyforum.com/showthread.php?31088-Why-do-Props-prefer-one-side ), so now I guess you'll have to set me straight about hookers.


das

 

[Jaguares]

Hey buddies, What happened today?

"Liam Messam ran at No 8 and Steven Luatua came into the starting blindside flanker role during today's training"

How many games have Messam playins as number 8? So it was that players couldn't play in another position?

Cheers

 

[nickdnz]

Rene Ranger could play at 12, and also Robbie Fruean too, both have the size and ability to do so. I'm talking long term, for the next RWC, I know that Ranger has a contract in France and Robbie had a heart surgery recently. What I mean is that currently Nonu has replacement: Francis Saili and Charles Piutau, Conrad doesn't.

And you will say that Charles is not a centre. I know, but he can play there. Steve Hansen believes that Charles could play there, then he's in the bench, right? Suppose that the next game is injured Nonu, who will take his place? There are 2 players on the bench: Charles Piutau or Beauden Barrett

Cheers

Once again - Piatau has never played 12. He hasn't even played much at 13 but some seem to think he'll be put there if Marshall plays fullback with the Blues...So I guess to answer your questions, Piatau can cover Smith more so than Nonu. Regardless, I'd be suprised if Saili didn't cover centre if anyone got injured, or even Ben Smith. If Nonu gets injured, Beuden Barrett would likely cover 2nd 5/8th - or Cruden would move in a position with Barrett at 10.

Hey buddies, What happened today?

"Liam Messam ran at No 8 and Steven Luatua came into the starting blindside flanker role during today's training"

How many games have Messam playins as number 8? So it was that players couldn't play in another position?

Cheers

What?! You mean Messam who has played #8 numberous times for both the Chiefs and the All Blacks plays there again when there is an injury?!?! Outragious! This is clearly the same as Luatua playing openside flanker despite never playing there and not having the skills to play there over Sam Cane. I feel like your attitude is that positions are pretty much arbitrary guidelines that can be ignored providing the best players are on the park. However it often just doesn't work that way - some of the best players in the world play a different position and are less effective than considerably less talented players in that position.

You put James O'Connor as some kind of exception - but if there is one thing learned from O'Connor its that putting a guy who plays in the outside backs - at 1st 5/8th and expecting him to be good just doesn't work. You hold him and Deans as some kind of example, which just blows my mind.

 

[Jaguares]

Once again - Piatau has never played 12. He hasn't even played much at 13 but some seem to think he'll be put there if Marshall plays fullback with the Blues...So I guess to answer your questions, Piatau can cover Smith more so than Nonu. Regardless, I'd be suprised if Saili didn't cover centre if anyone got injured, or even Ben Smith. If Nonu gets injured, Beuden Barrett would likely cover 2nd 5/8th - or Cruden would move in a position with Barrett at 10.

Well, you first said:"Piatau never could play at centre". Now, you say: "Piatau can replace Conrad Smith".

And even you go further and say that when Benji Marshall plays in the Blues, many supporters suggest that Benji could play at fullback and Piatau could play at 13. Gradually we understand each.

20 minutes more of talk and you say that Piatau can play at 12

What?! You mean Messam who has played #8 numberous times for both the Chiefs and the All Blacks plays there again when there is an injury?!?! Outragious! This is clearly the same as Luatua playing openside flanker despite never playing there and not having the skills to play there over Sam Cane. I feel like your attitude is that positions are pretty much arbitrary guidelines that can be ignored providing the best players are on the park. However it often just doesn't work that way - some of the best players in the world play a different position and are less effective than considerably less talented players in that position.

You put James O'Connor as some kind of exception - but if there is one thing learned from O'Connor its that putting a guy who plays in the outside backs - at 1st 5/8th and expecting him to be good just doesn't work. You hold him and Deans as some kind of example, which just blows my mind.

You say that players can't play in other positions and now Steve Hansen placed Messam at number 8 to lack of players, then Messam can play number 8, although he's a flanker.

Cheers

 

[Andronicus]

I agree with Conrad Smith. What happens if Cruden, Nonu, the three Smiths and Savea all get injured? Obviously Steve Hansen sees Piutau as capable as covering all the backline positions. It's the only possibility.

Yeah, it's a real worry. Even worse, what would happen if the whole team got injured?

 

[ABs2011]

Conrad,

Messam is in the squad as the PRIMARY cover for Read at 8, he has played at 8 countless times for the Chiefs and for Waikato (anyone that even remotely understood the ABs squad at the moment knew Messam will cover Read IF Read is out). The fact that you are trying to draw a comparison with this position change to your idea that Piutau could or would play 12 just tells me you are a bit confused.

Piutau is in the squad as bench cover for the outside backs. He is one of the most junior players in the team and to the best of my knowledge he has NEVER played 12 at AB, Super Rugby, or NZ Domestic level. Messam is now one of the more senior players in the ABs, he is primarily a 6 but is in the squad as cover for 8 and has played 8 many times at senior rugby level. If you can get a handle on those two sentences I think you will start to see why people are giving you a hard time about what you are saying.