Warm Up Match 1: New Zealand Barbarians v British & Irish Lions (Whangarei)

[ianw16]

Of course we'll be better on Wednesday, I've no doubt whatsoever. Doesn't make today less disappointing.

They'll need to be. The Blues may be the worst of NZ's Super Rugby teams, but they aren't far off the others. They are fully pro, and play together week-in, week-out. They have a number of players with international experience. I would expect them to beat that Barbarians team by 20-30 pts at least.
The Lions will likely have an almost totally different starting XV, so the only cohesion they will have will come from an extra 3 days on the training field. It will likely be a stronger team on paper than the one that started today but, as I say, it'll need to be. Lucky for the Lions that it is the Blues followed by the Crusaders, rather than the other way round! The Lions might just get away with a scratchy first 40 against the Blues - I very much doubt that would be the case against the Crusaders.

 

[General Melchett]

The Baabaas can be very proud of their performance. Coped with the slippery ball very well and gave the Lions a few problems.

I read through this thread before watching the match and was expecting an absolute shocker from Laidlaw. By his own standards he pretty much played a Laidlaw type of game. He never was a dynamic SH and so it seems that the issue is his selection in the first place rather than his performance. Also he has just returned from ankle ligament damage and hasn't played much since round 2 of the 6N so he is bound to be lacking sharpness. Personally I would have taken Gareth Davies or Ali Price instead. Not a huge fan of Care who had an indifferent 6N. For me Sexton had a nightmare and was our worst performer. He just doesn't look himself and I can't see him seeing out the tour. Quite a few players looked knackered and off the pace. Faletau was head and shoulders our best player.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The Baabaas can be very proud of their performance. Coped with the slippery ball very well and gave the Lions a few problems.

I read through this thread before watching the match and was expecting an absolute shocker from Laidlaw. By his own standards he pretty much played a Laidlaw type of game. He never was a dynamic SH and so it seems that the issue is his selection in the first place rather than his performance. Also he has just returned from ankle ligament damage and hasn't played much since round 2 of the 6N so he is bound to be lacking sharpness. Personally I would have taken Gareth Davies or Ali Price instead. Not a huge fan of Care who had an indifferent 6N. For me Sexton had a nightmare and was our worst performer. He just doesn't look himself and I can't see him seeing out the tour. Quite a few players looked knackered and off the pace. Faletau was head and shoulders our best player.

Price or Davies would of been both perfect for the midweek squad.

 

[Nubiwan]

Not a great start by the Lions up against a pretty much 2nd division side in NZ.


Johnny Sexton is one of THE most overrated players in the world. Rubbish execution today. When he has a stinker, he is awful. Looked out of his depth against a B side.


Few decent outings by a couple of Lions players (most with New Zealand sounding names – Felatau – T'eo - Moriarty - LOL).


Its early days, but if the Lions put in that kind of performance against even the better Provincial sides, then they are in for some hidings. All blacks would have clobbered that Lions side today.


If they are not doing so already, then NZ Provincial teams will be licking their lips to have a go at them, after seeing that, and they'll be running at them from everywhere, not kicking points, or kicking away possession.


Pretty **** match unless you were following the underdog NZ side, who looked more competent if just undermanned in the end.


Hoping it was just overconfidence from the Lions, and not so sure they're just not used to being on the park together. You could always blame the quality of the side on the park. Just never looked like they played together. Not sure they will have enough time to put it together for when it matters though. The Blues on Wednesday and Crusaders next week will be no pushover.


Bill McLaren

 

[Nubiwan]

The Baabaas can be very proud of their performance. Coped with the slippery ball very well and gave the Lions a few problems.

I read through this thread before watching the match and was expecting an absolute shocker from Laidlaw. By his own standards he pretty much played a Laidlaw type of game. He never was a dynamic SH and so it seems that the issue is his selection in the first place rather than his performance. Also he has just returned from ankle ligament damage and hasn't played much since round 2 of the 6N so he is bound to be lacking sharpness. Personally I would have taken Gareth Davies or Ali Price instead. Not a huge fan of Care who had an indifferent 6N. For me Sexton had a nightmare and was our worst performer. He just doesn't look himself and I can't see him seeing out the tour. Quite a few players looked knackered and off the pace. Faletau was head and shoulders our best player.

Both Lions scrum halves looked decidedly average today, but hardly stood out in what was - at best - an indifferent Lions performance. Does not bode well for the next 3-4 weeks. Can only get better, rugby wise, even if they still get battered on the score sheet. Not the competent or clinical performance I was expecting from the Lions at all. Looked shakey, and mistakes abounded all over the place. NZ side were unlucky in the end.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Johnny Sexton is one of THE most overrated players in the world. Rubbish execution today. When he has a stinker, he is awful. Looked out of his depth against a B side.

Lol

Few decent outings by a couple of Lions players (most with New Zealand sounding names – Moriarty - LOL).

Wut?

 

[Nubiwan]

I disagree. His game as a whole has been far better. He's increased the tempo, he's taken it to the line, his passing's been more accurate. Other than his pretty poor missed kick I think he's done a fine job.

Should have made the kick he missed, but his introduction sparked the try and his all round play was day an night compared to Sexton. Sexton was bog. Disjointed overall from Lions, and not impressive at all. Think they were happy to get off the park seeing out the last 45 seconds to kick it to touch. Well played the Barbarians.

Fair to say the Lions had nothing to win with the performance today. If they won 50-0, then it would have been meh. They were held to a tight match and looked like 15 players who had just met on the park for the first time. They need to put it together fast if they want any joy out of their remaining matches. Scrum was disappointingly static.

 

[Nubiwan]

Incredibly embarrassing, albeit with some promising individual performances.

Warburton says "pretty happy with that"

Was Warburton playing today? Honestly - he's our captain......... I dont recall him having a significant carry.

 

[Nubiwan]

Lol


Wut?

The Moriarty bit was tongue in cheek mate

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

i mean what is a NZ sounding name?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Ok, gonna give a go at some player ratings... gonna be rough
1. Joe Marler - 5/10. Didn't notice him at all in the loose but he was part of a very dominant first half scrum, just about our only redeeming quality in that first half.
2. Rory Best - 5/10. Was my choice to start at hooker before this game. But now... was solid as you'd expect at the breakdown but this was cancelled out by his dodgy lineouts.
3. Kyle Sinckler - 8/10. Carried very well and despite being seen as not being a scrummaging prop he did well there today. Think he may have nailed down that 18 shirt. Genuine contender for 3 IMO.
4 & 5. Alun Wyn Jones & Iain Henderson - 4/10. Both were just poor. Offered nothing around the pitch in attack and missed a few tackles between them. Looking like all 3 English locks could be making up the test 23.
6. Ross Moriarty - 7/10. Solid performance, carried hard and made good metres. Not a test match contender IMO but a solid squad player nonetheless.
7. Sam Warburton - 6/10 - Meh, did nothing special but made no glaring errors. Tipuric's performance was better IMO.
8. Taulupe Faletau - 8/10 - What a tackle. Has nailed down the 8 shirt, carried hard, tackled well and was a nuisance at the breakdown. One of the few players who can be proud about that game.
9. Greig Laidlaw - 3/10. Genuine question, is Gatland allowed to send players home for bad performances? Because after that I think flying in Davies or Care has to be considered. When you've only got 3 9s on tour you can't afford for one of them to be dog s**t.
10. Jonathan Sexton - 4/10. Uncharacteristically poor performance, inaccurate passes and out-on-the-full kicks. Farrell has the 10 shirt nailed down after that IMO.
11. Tommy Seymour - 4/10. Although he didn't necessarily do anything wrong, the NZ right winger was causing chaos all game, Seymour completely failed to contain him. If he can't contain a semi-pro Baabaa, what's he gonna do against the likes of Naholo and Dagg?
12. Ben Te'o - 8/10. Consistently made breaks and was solid in defence. If other players could be bothered to support him he'd have been the supplier of 3-4 tries today.
13. Jonathan Joseph - 6/10. Did nothing in attack, although his first half "Held up" should've been checked, I reckon he scored that. Defence was nothing special but he made good reads and did well with the ball he was given.
14. Anthony Watson - 6/10. Similar to JJ, did well with what he was given. Scored a try which he did well for and would've been in for another if Hogg could pass.
15. Stuart Hogg - 4/10. It's been speculated that Gats will give the 15 shirt to 1/2p for the tests instead of the 2 time 6 Nations player of the Tournament winner. Up until this game I thought that must've been bull but now... Very poor performance from Hogg. 2 knock ons fielding opposition kicks simply isn't good enough from an international fullback.

16. Jamie George - 7/10
17. Mako Vunipola - 6/10
18. Tadhg Furlong - 6/10
19. George Kruis - 6/10
20. Justin Tipuric - 7/10
21. Rhys Webb - 6/10
22. Owen Farrell - 7/10
23. Elliot Daly - N/A

You're certainly coming to conclusions about nailed on starters preeeeeeety early...
If Gatland rated the likes of Henderson enough to put him on this tour ahead of other top locks he certainly won't be giving up on him that quickly. Same with a lot of the other guys. In the case of Henderson he made some poor positional decisions getting caught out a bit, and also as you say didn't really stand out a lot otherwise.

 

[Nubiwan]

Pundits are going to try and put a positive spin on it, that's their job. I think the main point is that teamwork you expect to develop, but there were a lot of basic mistakes that you don't have time to develop. Those players who struggled, if they have another game where they struggle then that will be it.

Thats the worrying thing. A lot of lads never impressed at all. Scrum never budged and little basic error all over. Perhaps 3-4 Lions players said "I deserve a test spot - look at me"

 

[Penne Rara]

I think the players are still pretty tired. This tight schedule doesn't suit them at all.

 

[Nubiwan]

i mean what is a NZ sounding name?

Pacific Island names. Thought it was obvious. Felatau,T'eo, Lomu, Vunipola, Umaga, Sonny Bill Williams.

 

[Penne Rara]

Pacific Island names. Thought it was obvious. Felatau,T'eo, Lomu, Vunipola, Umaga, Sonny Bill Williams.

That's a bit of a stretch. A big majority of people in New Zealand have names that come from all around the world, mainly from anglo-saxon descent.

 

[Nubiwan]

That's a bit of a stretch. A big majority of people in New Zealand have names that come from all around the world, mainly from anglo-saxon descent.

Penne Rara? Indeed

NZ provincial teams are littered with names I can neither pronounce or spell. A generalisation aimed at the Lions anyway.

The point was most of the "Celtic" sounding Lions players did not do themselves any favours.

 

[BobbyM]

Ok, gonna give a go at some player ratings... gonna be rough
1. Joe Marler - 5/10. Didn't notice him at all in the loose but he was part of a very dominant first half scrum, just about our only redeeming quality in that first half.
2. Rory Best - 5/10. Was my choice to start at hooker before this game. But now... was solid as you'd expect at the breakdown but this was cancelled out by his dodgy lineouts.
3. Kyle Sinckler - 8/10. Carried very well and despite being seen as not being a scrummaging prop he did well there today. Think he may have nailed down that 18 shirt. Genuine contender for 3 IMO.
4 & 5. Alun Wyn Jones & Iain Henderson - 4/10. Both were just poor. Offered nothing around the pitch in attack and missed a few tackles between them. Looking like all 3 English locks could be making up the test 23.
6. Ross Moriarty - 7/10. Solid performance, carried hard and made good metres. Not a test match contender IMO but a solid squad player nonetheless.
7. Sam Warburton - 6/10 - Meh, did nothing special but made no glaring errors. Tipuric's performance was better IMO.
8. Taulupe Faletau - 8/10 - What a tackle. Has nailed down the 8 shirt, carried hard, tackled well and was a nuisance at the breakdown. One of the few players who can be proud about that game.
9. Greig Laidlaw - 3/10. Genuine question, is Gatland allowed to send players home for bad performances? Because after that I think flying in Davies or Care has to be considered. When you've only got 3 9s on tour you can't afford for one of them to be dog s**t.
10. Jonathan Sexton - 4/10. Uncharacteristically poor performance, inaccurate passes and out-on-the-full kicks. Farrell has the 10 shirt nailed down after that IMO.
11. Tommy Seymour - 4/10. Although he didn't necessarily do anything wrong, the NZ right winger was causing chaos all game, Seymour completely failed to contain him. If he can't contain a semi-pro Baabaa, what's he gonna do against the likes of Naholo and Dagg?
12. Ben Te'o - 8/10. Consistently made breaks and was solid in defence. If other players could be bothered to support him he'd have been the supplier of 3-4 tries today.
13. Jonathan Joseph - 6/10. Did nothing in attack, although his first half "Held up" should've been checked, I reckon he scored that. Defence was nothing special but he made good reads and did well with the ball he was given.
14. Anthony Watson - 6/10. Similar to JJ, did well with what he was given. Scored a try which he did well for and would've been in for another if Hogg could pass.
15. Stuart Hogg - 4/10. It's been speculated that Gats will give the 15 shirt to 1/2p for the tests instead of the 2 time 6 Nations player of the Tournament winner. Up until this game I thought that must've been bull but now... Very poor performance from Hogg. 2 knock ons fielding opposition kicks simply isn't good enough from an international fullback.

16. Jamie George - 7/10
17. Mako Vunipola - 6/10
18. Tadhg Furlong - 6/10
19. George Kruis - 6/10
20. Justin Tipuric - 7/10
21. Rhys Webb - 6/10
22. Owen Farrell - 7/10
23. Elliot Daly - N/A

Guessing you're not a Scotland fan

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Guessing you're not a Scotland fan

I'm a big fan of Hogg and Seymour but it has to be said that today along with Laidlaw they were poor. Do you think the ratings were unfair?

 

[Ospervat]

Just watched the game. That was hard going.

Firstly - well done young Gatland- masterful, Carteresque - Lions didn't have a clue to counter. My MOTM.

To be fair to Lions - barely landed on NZ soil and playing a game against a semi-pro side that was extremely motivated to take the game to them. They were certainly a match up front. The biggest game of their lives for some of them.

That said I would still have expected Lions with their experience and depth to have done better than squeak it.
Too many unforced errors, lack of organisation, cohesion or initiative to create opportunities, sloppy and off the pace & when the opportunities did miraculously occur we managed to butcher it - hardly saw a ball make it past 12.
Only real positives was a few good steals at the breakdown, good at lineouts and Faletau's match winning try save. That was worth 7 all day long.

It's early days - no reason to be overly concerned however definitely need a reality check. Prepare to get savaged in the NZ press for this performance. Get back on the paddock and work out the combinations. Hogg & Sexton need to sit in a dark room and have a long chat with themselves.

Another performance like that and they will be handed their proverbial in spades.

 

[BobbyM]

I'm a big fan of Hogg and Seymour but it has to be said that today along with Laidlaw they were poor. Do you think the ratings were unfair?

I thought you were far too soft on Warby. He didn't look to me to be a lions captain. Quietest of the back row by far. Laidlaw was exactly how laidlaw is. He didn't play too badly compared to his normal style of game I thought. Seymour was quiet but I thought Hogg was one of the more dynamic runners. He didn't really miss tackles and while I agree he didn't claim everything in the air, I didn't think he was a "4".