Wales v England

[Tin]

Was disappointing in the end, we had a chance but yet again constantly give away penalties in kickable positions,
Personally didnt like the ref but hes part of the game and england needed to adjust to him
Would like to see Johnson try a bit more youth for the next match and stick with them even if they lose, would love to see a new captain as well
Do feel wales should have had a card for Byrnes tackle on Armitage as the picture below quite easily shows he didnt attempt to catch the ball
As you can see hes really going for that ball :huh:

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tin Head @ Feb 15 2009, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Was disappointing in the end, we had a chance but yet again constantly give away penalties in kickable positions,
Personally didnt like the ref but hes part of the game and england needed to adjust to him
Would like to see Johnson try a bit more youth for the next match and stick with them even if they lose, would love to see a new captain as well
Do feel wales should have had a card for Byrnes tackle on Armitage as the picture below quite easily shows he didnt attempt to catch the ball
As you can see hes really going for that ball :huh:

[/b]

Yes but did Byrne go for the man ....?

 

[Bullitt]

He certainly got the man... In the end, that's all that counts.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Feb 15 2009, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

He certainly got the man... In the end, that's all that counts.[/b]

Oh well no point going over spilt Milk ... whats happend has happend, deal with it!

Ive seen loads of players do it to Lee Byrne at the international stage and nothing is ever done most of the time!

 

[MunsterMan]

That doesn't mean it is right. The day you can jump and claim a high ball without fear of someone running into you causing you to land on your head will be a good one! Every time a player tackles someone in the air he should get a yellow.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Feb 15 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That doesn't mean it is right. The day you can jump and claim a high ball without fear of someone running into you causing you to land on your head will be a good one! Every time a player tackles someone in the air he should get a yellow.[/b]

Where did I say it was right?

Of course a player should feel safe but the fact is players from time to time will get taken out! Really it was not that cynical it was no more cynical that Cross's on Byrne's last week, in which he was carded unfairly looking in hindsight!

 

[MunsterMan]

And Cross rightly got a yellow for that! You didn't say it was right, but you said it was acceptable, same thing.

 

[danny]

It wasnt cynical , he was committed and in the heat of the game decided not to pull out. Still a yellow card but nothing too serious.

 

[Prestwick]

Slightly off topic but I love these pictures. It looks like five people are all going for the ball...if you squint and have a pint..or five..

EDIT: And to be fair, Byrne may be needlessly naughty and silly with his dishonourable antics off the ball, but he's an absolute angel compared to Marcato and his delightful clothesline from hell as performed on Rob Kearney.

Seems as though Marcato learnt how to tackle from the "Wrestling god" JBL from WWE.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Feb 15 2009, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And Cross rightly got a yellow for that! You didn't say it was right, but you said it was acceptable, same thing.[/b]

Oh Jesus ....

I never said acceptable ... I never said that word!!!

Please please please read and think before you post! I never said that it was acceptable but what I did say its part of rugby and until something is done about it then its part and parcel of rugby!

Back on topic!

Why did Martin Johnson take off England's most attacking player bar Flutety in Sackey?

 

[Sir Speedy]

It was Masi who performed the Clothesline from Hell on Kearney, Prest. But I think Masi's known for being a dirty player.

 

[MunsterMan]

Marcato didn't play today Pretwick, it was Masi I think.

Cymro, correct me if I'm wrong, I said it should have been a yellow, and you said it shouldn't it happens all the time?? Sounds like your saying it is acceptable to me :huh:

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Feb 15 2009, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Marcato didn't play today Pretwick, it was Masi I think.

Cymro, correct me if I'm wrong, I said it should have been a yellow, and you said it shouldn't it happens all the time?? Sounds like your saying it is acceptable to me :huh:[/b]

For me if you start yellow carding every player who is deemed to take the man out then its pointless in my opnion, the man is taken out in the air a few old few times and they are not punished!

I dont think its acceptable to take the man out in the air but I dont think everyone deserves a yellow card!

 

[dullonien]

After re-watching the Lee Burne incident, I agree he could have quite easily been yellow carded. There was no malice there, but he miss timed his run, so couldn't go for the ball, and after all, I doubt most players mean to do the things that earn them yellow cards (high tackles etc.), it was reckless and there was a case for the yellow.

Appologies for my earlier statements.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 16 2009, 04:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Gatlad has always maintained subs eren't there just for injuries/poor form, they are there to bring on and change the game.[/b]

This is the interesting thing. Gatland has huge respect in Ireland, but for me his subs in the Scot game were a disaster. Yesterday wasn't so bad, but they could have ended up losing the game as well.

I'm not saying Wales got out of jail in either match, but slightly better opposition may nail them late on with no way back.

 

[dullonien]

His mass changes in the Scotland game was a mistake, he said so himself in the post match interview. But I think generally Gatland's tactics with the substitutions have been excellent in his time in charge of Wales. That experiement against Scotland won't be repeated.

 

[Cymro]

Powell was subbed because he was tired, he ran himself into the ground before being subbed. He made 107 meters which is rediculous as some think that he was crap! Dafydd Jones came on for that and that reason alone.

Regarding Gatland's subs he went from one extreme to another! He should have put Peel out sooner, and should have put him on 5-10 mins after half time, maybe sooner. Peel however has fallen foul with Gatland, coming from his father who says that Gatland rarely speaks to Peel and his generally angry with him (my source knows Peel's father very well and I have this information on good authority!) He could see that Worsley was marking Roberts out of the game so why did he not:

1. Swap Shanklin and Roberts around?
2. Sub Shanklin for Hook and put Hook at 12 with Roberts at 13?
3. Do what Wales did at the end of the game where they were just peeling off the back of the lineout sooner, making Worsley inaffective?

I cant complain as Wales won but we could have done a better job than what we did!

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 15 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just checked the stats on Powell, 17 carries, making 107 metres, that's pretty impressive for a bad day at the office.[/b]

Dont get me wrong, I like Powell but how many of those started and stayed behind the gain line. Every kick off he'd get 6-7 yards, run into contact and be taken down, same for ball received in the midfield. The distance he runs is not very important if he doesnt break the gain line and I dont recall too many offloads.

This is just a reflection on the England game though. Hes a damn good player but England shut him down pretty effeectively with the double tackles.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 15 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think Heaslip has possbily moved ahead of Powell for the lions, but it's pretty close imo.[/b]

Yeah I'd agree. Heaslip is showing more to his game than Powell does and is in blinding form at the moment but he's notoriously inconsistent. Its nowhere near a done deal but good to see a couple of options coming through.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Feb 15 2009, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 15 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just checked the stats on Powell, 17 carries, making 107 metres, that's pretty impressive for a bad day at the office.[/b]

Dont get me wrong, I like Powell but how many of those started and stayed behind the gain line. Every kick off he'd get 6-7 yards, run into contact and be taken down, same for ball received in the midfield. The distance he runs is not very important if he doesnt break the gain line and I dont recall too many offloads.

This is just a reflection on the England game though. Hes a damn good player but England shut him down pretty effeectively with the double tackles.
[/b][/quote]

He constantly made the gain line, and why does he need to offload? Powell took 2-3 England players with him everytime which is just as good as an offload!

 

[dullonien]

Yup agree there Cymro, we needed to do something to take Worseley out of the game. That could have been done in a few ways imo:

1. Attack Andy Goode who was out of position in the back row of scrums, forcing Worseley back into his usual position.
2. Use our forwards to run at Worseley, tying him in before releasing the likes of Roberts.
3. Bring someone with better running skills into the 12 position (Andrew Bishop), or bring Hook in at 10 to run at him.
4. Use our wingers in midfield to show Worseley up for what he is, a slow(ish) forward (think Shane would have done that if playing).

England showed the major weekness of the Jones-Roberts-Shanklin midfield lineup, their lack of running flair. We need one of of two things imo, bring Henson/Bishop into 12, shifting Roberts to 13 or bring Hook in at 10. Either of these would stop another team doing what England did, and it's something Gatland needs to adress.

Edit: just wanted to point out, this has nothing to do with Shanklin's form, just that this game proved there's a big weakness with this kind of combination. It's just obvious that Roberts is a better player than Shanklin, he does everything Shanks does, but better, meaning it has to be Shanklin who looses his place! Bringing Henson in would add some much needed flair and vision into this quite one dimensional midfield. He would do this better than Bishop can, as I don't rate Bishops vision atall, a good runner with the ball and great tackler, but nowhere neer the same hands Henson posseses.