USA news & politics

[Welsh Exile]

Im not sure why you need to attack Trumps past, based on a comment hes made today. Is it a need to oppose him no matter what (no the sky isnt blue actually) or do you need people here to know you oppose him (look guys, hes still a scumvag dont you think).

I havnt heard his quote today, but as i said, German soldiers had severe restrictions, and were deployed mostly in the quiter North regions, and werent in the dog fight in places like Helmand with the Americans and Brits.

As you said, germany lost 50 soldiers (i have no idea, ill take your word for it), butnim willing to bet the US lost 50 x or maybe even 100 x that number?

So it is fair to say germans troop deplotment was much lower than the USA, they were deployed with much more restrictions, like geographical, self defence engagement, and remained under National command, even thoughbunder NATO. Its not unfair to say then, German troops were held back from major engagements, or front line aggression and duty is it?

Agains im not defending Trump, im just saying, as usual it seems baity, as in designed to make the usual suspects react, but has enough element of accuracy to make a follow up claim.

I think it’s fair game. If you’re going to make snidey comments about people avoiding the frontline it seems fair to point out that that person was a draft dodger. But Trump has previous (being a ****) for this doesn’t he.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Im not sure why you need to attack Trumps past, based on a comment hes made today. Is it a need to oppose him no matter what (no the sky isnt blue actually) or do you need people here to know you oppose him (look guys, hes still a scumvag dont you think).

I havnt heard his quote today, but as i said, German soldiers had severe restrictions, and were deployed mostly in the quiter North regions, and werent in the dog fight in places like Helmand with the Americans and Brits.

As you said, germany lost 50 soldiers (i have no idea, ill take your word for it), butnim willing to bet the US lost 50 x or maybe even 100 x that number?

So it is fair to say germans troop deplotment was much lower than the USA, they were deployed with much more restrictions, like geographical, self defence engagement, and remained under National command, even thoughbunder NATO. Its not unfair to say then, German troops were held back from major engagements, or front line aggression and duty is it?

Agains im not defending Trump, im just saying, as usual it seems baity, as in designed to make the usual suspects react, but has enough element of accuracy to make a follow up claim.

Why are you defending him so vehemently when you've said you've not even listened to what he said?

He was specifically talking about NATO - not Germany, NATO.
The UK is in NATO.
Canada is in NATO.

"We have never really asked anything of them," Trump claimed, adding, "They'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan, and they did, they stayed a little back, a little off the front lines"

 

[dirty harry]

Why are you defending him so vehemently when you've said you've not even listened to what he said?

He was specifically talking about NATO - not Germany, NATO.
The UK is in NATO.
Canada is in NATO.

View attachment 25393

I mean.

1. I havnt defended him, ive called the comments bait, because they are designed to trigger, but have just enough element of truth to back it up. Like i said i havnt seen the raw data of what hebsaid, just read thebbbc article. Is calling the comment baity, defending Trump, or is it as usual, just not as hysterical of the condemnation of what you guys want?

2. Thanks for the data, US deaths were near 50x Germanys.

3. Germany is actually a great example, NATO and article 5 were invoked, but Germany didnt want German troops exposed to front line duty, so they refused to allow German troops gonunder NATO control, they didnt want German troops to be proactive in their efforts, so made them a self defence force, in quieter regions of the country.
I Think i remember John Kerry at the time calling for NATO restructure and reform because of these countries putting restrictions to safeguard troops.

I think it’s fair game. If you’re going to make snidey comments about people avoiding the frontline it seems fair to point out that that person was a draft dodger. But Trump has previous (being a ****) for this doesn’t he.

But you wouldnt totally discount something an Adam Beard fan would say about the lineout, because Adam Beard had a run of bad games, and rhe fan hadnt popped on a shirt and turned out at 5?

Again im not defending Trump, i literally call it bait like, so IMO it seems like a hyperbolic version of the truth

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I mean.

1. I havnt defended him, ive called the comments bait, because they are designed to trigger, but have just enough element of truth to back it up. Like i said i havnt seen the raw data of what hebsaid, just read thebbbc article. Is calling the comment baity, defending Trump, or is it as usual, just not as hysterical of the condemnation of what you guys want?

2. Thanks for the data, US deaths were near 50x Germanys.

3. Germany is actually a great example, NATO and article 5 were invoked, but Germany didnt want German troops exposed to front line duty, so they refused to allow German troops gonunder NATO control, they didnt want German troops to be proactive in their efforts, so made them a self defence force, in quieter regions of the country.
I Think i remember John Kerry at the time calling for NATO restructure and reform because of these countries putting restrictions to safeguard troops.



But you wouldnt totally discount something an Adam Beard fan would say about the lineout, because Adam Beard had a run of bad games, and rhe fan hadnt popped on a shirt and turned out at 5?

Again im not defending Trump, i literally call it bait like, so IMO it seems like a hyperbolic version of the truth

Why do you keep bringing up Germany?
He was talking about NATO as a whole - why do British deaths mean nothing to you in your pursuit of defending Trump?

 

[Welsh Exile]

I mean.

1. I havnt defended him, ive called the comments bait, because they are designed to trigger, but have just enough element of truth to back it up. Like i said i havnt seen the raw data of what hebsaid, just read thebbbc article. Is calling the comment baity, defending Trump, or is it as usual, just not as hysterical of the condemnation of what you guys want?

2. Thanks for the data, US deaths were near 50x Germanys.

3. Germany is actually a great example, NATO and article 5 were invoked, but Germany didnt want German troops exposed to front line duty, so they refused to allow German troops gonunder NATO control, they didnt want German troops to be proactive in their efforts, so made them a self defence force, in quieter regions of the country.
I Think i remember John Kerry at the time calling for NATO restructure and reform because of these countries putting restrictions to safeguard troops.



But you wouldnt totally discount something an Adam Beard fan would say about the lineout, because Adam Beard had a run of bad games, and rhe fan hadnt popped on a shirt and turned out at 5?

Again im not defending Trump, i literally call it bait like, so IMO it seems like a hyperbolic version of the truth

If Adam Beard was slagging off say the English line out and it turned out he hadn’t been to set piece training for the last 10 years coz he’s a pussy I would say it’s fair game to point that out.

Out of interest, you say these comments are designed to trigger and you obviously believe the main reason Trumps support has grown is due to the lefts reactions to comments like this, who, in your mind, is mainly to blame and second what should be the appropriate reaction to comments like this? Laugh it off and say “good one Donald”

I can’t imagine losing a child in a war and then hearing the POTUS say something like this.

 

[Saintjay]

Im not sure why you need to attack Trumps past, based on a comment hes made today. Is it a need to oppose him no matter what (no the sky isnt blue actually) or do you need people here to know you oppose him (look guys, hes still a scumvag dont you think).

I havnt heard his quote today, but as i said, German soldiers had severe restrictions, and were deployed mostly in the quiter North regions, and werent in the dog fight in places like Helmand with the Americans and Brits.

You started by saying German had no involvement. Then move the goal posts. You have the neck to question the death of soldiers because of there role. It was IED's, suicide bombings and in some cases direct fire.

No Harry it's because I was a soldier. I knew people who died in Helmand in 2007. Including a friend Darren Bonner.

They were teenagers having to fight with bayonets at times. Literally ******* kid's fighting.

But, but America lost more people!!! **** you.

 

[Welsh Exile]

You started by saying German had no involvement. Then move the goal posts. You have the neck to question the death of soldiers because of there role. It was IED's, suicide bombings and in some cases direct fire.

No Harry it's because I was a soldier. I knew people who died in Helmand in 2007. Including a friend Darren Bonner.

They were teenagers having to fight with bayonets at times. Literally ******* kid's fighting.

But, but America lost more people!!! **** you.

Don’t overreact. Trump is just being hyperbolic about young dead people.

 

[dirty harry]

Why do you keep bringing up Germany?
He was talking about NATO as a whole - why do British deaths mean nothing to you in your pursuit of defending Trump?

"If he is talking about the UK, or Canada, then its a slap in the face, if however he is talking Germany, well then he has a point no?"

You understand these countries contribute to NATO and the Afghan war triggered article 5, for the first ever time, and the response from a lot of NATO contributors was hardly in the nature of it. At the time US senetors and congress were unhappy with Germany shying away from front line and dangerous action.

The UK, Canada and other NATO nations in my opinion reacted appropriately (even if i disagreed with it), however Germany did not respond the same did they, as did other european NATO allies.

The criticism of that at the time is that some Eruopean nations weakened NATO, werent as commited to the ethos of article 5, and calls for NATOs resrructure even happened if i remember rightly.

So ive gone and found the quote in full context, the question asked of him was "do you think NaTo allies would be there for the US if it was attacked?"

The response being:

“We’ve never needed them… They’ll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan … and they did — they stayed a little back, a little off the front lines. But we’ve been very good to Europe and many other countries… It has to be a two‑way street.”

So it appears he is generically speaking about European NATO allied countries, so again my intiail assessment of this being baitish is correct. He doesnt mention the UK, because that would be ludicrous, Franxe and Netherlands were both quick to react, but other countries absolutely held back, and in Austria and other countries cases thw best they can say is 'we sent some troops to Afghanistan'.

So again, i think youve been baited into a reaction, needlessly. Its just generic enough to be true, but would be a stupid statement if specified to the UK. Where exactly is my defence of Trump here?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So again, i think youve been baited into a reaction,

No i think you're being wilfully ignorant, either because you want to rile people up over a very serious subject or you're genuinely this dense and just want to blindly defend Trump's position

 

[dirty harry]

If Adam Beard was slagging off say the English line out and it turned out he hadn’t been to set piece training for the last 10 years coz he’s a pussy I would say it’s fair game to point that out.

Out of interest, you say these comments are designed to trigger and you obviously believe the main reason Trumps support has grown is due to the lefts reactions to comments like this, who, in your mind, is mainly to blame and second what should be the appropriate reaction to comments like this? Laugh it off and say “good one Donald”

I can’t imagine losing a child in a war and then hearing the POTUS say something like this.

I mean, you just described a coach...

So, if my stance is that overreaction and lying about Trump from the opposition and American media is a key element that contributed to him, AND his increased popularity, as it convinces a central many that the establishment is not on their side, then Trump baiting reporters into further over reactions and lies would be a smart strategy no?

Youve again atributed this comment as a new incident, when American politicians said this exact same thing 20 years ago, and have done so regularly. Bush said it, Obama said it... even Biden (although he got more gracious as he got older and then in office, hes didnt really mention much of any sense lol).

I could probably provide you a quote about NATO not providing enough in Afghanistan and i bet you wouldnt know which sitting president said it!

Ive been very consitent on how to dealnwith Trump from the very start, when a guy whos running for president says 3 things a week that would sink any other candidates run, theres no need to weaponise the entire establishment to attack him, make up lies, or scream hysterics about every comment or action. All of this has fuelled his early and consistent messaging, and i will give him a compliment on a few quotes that i think were massive in framing things...

'Theyre not after me, theyre after you, im just in their way'

This was genius! A man on the inside, involved in every aspect of political scumbaggery and financials, puts his hands up and acknowledges he did make use of tax loopholes, and technicalities on financial gain, and for that reason they want him gone so the people dont see what theyre up to. Dave Chappelle was bang on in his analysis.

 

[dirty harry]

No i think you're being wilfully ignorant, either because you want to rile people up over a very serious subject or you're genuinely this dense and just want to blindly defend Trump's position

Name me where ive defended his position? Ive recognised his position is a long standing US standpoint, and called it bait and hyperbole of a truth.your just upset im not calling him Hitler.

 

[dirty harry]

You started by saying German had no involvement. Then move the goal posts. You have the neck to question the death of soldiers because of there role. It was IED's, suicide bombings and in some cases direct fire.

No Harry it's because I was a soldier. I knew people who died in Helmand in 2007. Including a friend Darren Bonner.

They were teenagers having to fight with bayonets at times. Literally ******* kid's fighting.

But, but America lost more people!!! **** you.

WTF are you on about?

Why are you lying about my comments on Germany, i just laid out their contribution, and never commented on themhaving no involvemrnt. Geez you xwnt be that upset you have to lie to strangers on the internet.

Firstly, fair play to you for your service, i getnyou get emotional about a subject like this, and its absolutely understandable, but for suggesting ive disparaged any british soldiers contribution in anynway, is nothing short of disgraceful. in fact all ive done is talk about Allied contributions as countires, factually and accurately.
What benefit do you get from it on an internet discussikn forum?

 

[Welsh Exile]

I mean, you just described a coach...

So, if my stance is that overreaction and lying about Trump from the opposition and American media is a key element that contributed to him, AND his increased popularity, as it convinces a central many that the establishment is not on their side, then Trump baiting reporters into further over reactions and lies would be a smart strategy no?

Youve again atributed this comment as a new incident, when American politicians said this exact same thing 20 years ago, and have done so regularly. Bush said it, Obama said it... even Biden (although he got more gracious as he got older and then in office, hes didnt really mention much of any sense lol).

I could probably provide you a quote about NATO not providing enough in Afghanistan and i bet you wouldnt know which sitting president said it!

Ive been very consitent on how to dealnwith Trump from the very start, when a guy whos running for president says 3 things a week that would sink any other candidates run, theres no need to weaponise the entire establishment to attack him, make up lies, or scream hysterics about every comment or action. All of this has fuelled his early and consistent messaging, and i will give him a compliment on a few quotes that i think were massive in framing things...

'Theyre not after me, theyre after you, im just in their way'

This was genius! A man on the inside, involved in every aspect of political scumbaggery and financials, puts his hands up and acknowledges he did make use of tax loopholes, and technicalities on financial gain, and for that reason they want him gone so the people dont see what theyre up to. Dave Chappelle was bang on in his analysis.

If this really is his strategy, and it could well be, then that’s bad, no? I mean, ideally our leaders don’t aspire to create division and it definitely shouldn’t be a central part to their political strategy. This is why I asked you who is to blame.

I also think that there should be a distinction between how normal people like you and me react and how elected leaders react.

 

[dirty harry]

If this really is his strategy, and it could well be, then that’s bad, no? I mean, ideally our leaders don’t aspire to create division and it definitely shouldn’t be a central part to their political strategy. This is why I asked you who is to blame.

I also think that there should be a distinction between how normal people like you and me react and how elected leaders react.

I absolutely agree, ive never said the strategy was a net positive, ive only ever said its been effective!

I also 100% agree leader should react differently than us muggles, but after 10 years of Trump doing his thing how is it still big news and surprising, or even emotional when he continues to do this twice a week?

In an ideal world every leader would be a Tony Blair, and Barrack Obama, classy statesmen, great in front of a camera, politcally astute, and appearing in control and calming tensions etc... but unfortunately, we have seen massive negative ramifications from their back door dealings, in some cases Trump, in others 20 years of Tory rule and Brexit.

But sadly we are not in an ideal world, who would be your pinnacle of world leader we would replicate?

 

[Saintjay]

WTF are you on about?

Why are you lying about my comments on Germany, i just laid out their contribution, and never commented on themhaving no involvemrnt. Geez you xwnt be that upset you have to lie to strangers on the internet.

Firstly, fair play to you for your service, i getnyou get emotional about a subject like this, and its absolutely understandable, but for suggesting ive disparaged any british soldiers contribution in anynway, is nothing short of disgraceful. in fact all ive done is talk about Allied contributions as countires, factually and accurately.
What benefit do you get from it on an internet discussikn forum?

If he is talking about the UK, or Canada, then its a slap in the face, if howevernhe is talking Germany, well then he has a point no?

Where's the facts and accuracy in that comment?

Both you and Trump are disparaging soldiers contributions. Not just British but across several countries. For every fighting soldier you need a minimum of three in support roles.

They were young people with families and possibley kids. It's doesn't matter how many were sent or what they did. They went because they went to support the USA.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I absolutely agree, ive never said the strategy was a net positive, ive only ever said its been effective!

I also 100% agree leader should react differently than us muggles, but after 10 years of Trump doing his thing how is it still big news and surprising, or even emotional when he continues to do this twice a week?

In an ideal world every leader would be a Tony Blair, and Barrack Obama, classy statesmen, great in front of a camera, politcally astute, and appearing in control and calming tensions etc... but unfortunately, we have seen massive negative ramifications from their back door dealings, in some cases Trump, in others 20 years of Tory rule and Brexit.

But sadly we are not in an ideal world, who would be your pinnacle of world leader we would replicate?

So the strategy is bad. How should we deal with it? What should be the appropriate responses to Trump saying horrible lies?

 

[dirty harry]

So the strategy is bad. How should we deal with it? What should be the appropriate responses to Trump saying horrible lies?

The appropriate response as ive said from the beginning, was to sit back and let him sink his own ship, let him chat shite over over demographic, lets his words do thebtalking and not misinterpet them and show the people the contempt the establsihment had for the great unwashed.

Dems just needed to act the adult in the room, not make up lies, and as i said in 2015 allow Sanders turn the other cheek, to absolutely whoop him in the election. I absolutely think Sanders wins that election as he was dignified and highlighted Trumps ignorance of pllitics.

Sadly now there isnt much anyone can do, Dems have thrown the kitchen sink at him in every way possible, including when Biden was in office not letting the issue go, the Biden election strategy was smart, lock him in the basement and let Trump hang himself, but as soon as they won they went back to being an opposition party even while in control.

We all agree common sense needs to return to politics, but after the last decade we have seen behind the curtain, and now the bar for doing what people vote for you to do, has risen too high, i dont think anything will change any time soon.

I warned Dems in early 2010s that Obamas increases in presidential power was going to bite them in the arse, andnill warn republicans now of the same, its all well and good when your team is doing it, butnin a few years youll be crying about the opposing team doing the same thing.

 

[Welsh Exile]

The appropriate response as ive said from the beginning, was to sit back and let him sink his own ship, let him chat shite over over demographic, lets his words do thebtalking and not misinterpet them and show the people the contempt the establsihment had for the great unwashed.

Dems just needed to act the adult in the room, not make up lies, and as i said in 2015 allow Sanders turn the other cheek, to absolutely whoop him in the election. I absolutely think Sanders wins that election as he was dignified and highlighted Trumps ignorance of pllitics.

Sadly now there isnt much anyone can do, Dems have thrown the kitchen sink at him in every way possible, including when Biden was in office not letting the issue go, the Biden election strategy was smart, lock him in the basement and let Trump hang himself, but as soon as they won they went back to being an opposition party even while in control.

We all agree common sense needs to return to politics, but after the last decade we have seen behind the curtain, and now the bar for doing what people vote for you to do, has risen too high, i dont think anything will change any time soon.

I warned Dems in early 2010s that Obamas increases in presidential power was going to bite them in the arse, andnill warn republicans now of the same, its all well and good when your team is doing it, butnin a few years youll be crying about the opposing team doing the same thing.

So do nothing initially but it’s all too late now. This is a guy that has convinced almost half of American citizens that the 2020 election was stolen from them. He’s done that with a load of push back and facts but that hasn’t stopped people believing the lie. As the old saying goes, a lie travels across the world twice as quick as the truth.

 

[dirty harry]

If he is talking about the UK, or Canada, then its a slap in the face, if howevernhe is talking Germany, well then he has a point no?

Where's the facts and accuracy in that comment?

Both you and Trump are disparaging soldiers contributions. Not just British but across several countries. For every fighting soldier you need a minimum of three in support roles.

They were young people with families and possibley kids. It's doesn't matter how many were sent or what they did. They went because they went to support the USA.

The accuracy is that Germany absolutely did not contribute the same as the UK, and the US including every sitting president since has criticised european countries for lack of comitment. Thats absolutely factual, you pretending otherwise makes you look bad.

In your instance there is absolutely no criticism allowed of any combat situation because children die, well thats dumb isnt it.

From your point, Austria sending 8 troops (not specific number)is them fullfilling their NATO obligation, but in reality for every lack of troops or resource, or for every restriction Germany put on their contribution, UK and US soldiers were forced into more dangerous positions and it increased risk and deaths to them. You have to consider both sides, noone is devaluing European contributions when suggesting the US criticism of their lack of comitment has some validity. Its swings and roundabouts.

Knock of the childish insults, and assertion im disparaging soldiers contributions, your looking like a fool for doing so when there has been no sugfestion of that from me whatsoever!

 

[dirty harry]

So do nothing initially but it’s all too late now. This is a guy that has convinced almost half of American citizens that the 2020 election was stolen from them. He’s done that with a load of push back and facts but that hasn’t stopped people believing the lie. As the old saying goes, a lie travels across the world twice as quick as the truth.

EXACTLY!!!!

Thats why their is such emotion around Trump, and thats literally why the Dems do it, bombard the media with their hyperbolic view of everything he says, the problem is in 2025 the lie that goes half way round the world backfires when the truth goes viral, like Russian Hooker urinating on him.

The idea of acting dignified, respectfull and countering his vulgerness with comkon sense is not doing nothing, its being the adult in the room and not playing the pathetic game, its rising above. The provlem is in playing his game, the Dems have put themselves in stupid corners, like opposing free speach, worshiping criminals, and promoting political violence, which they dont really stand for but have just been snookered too many times.