USA news & politics

[Welsh Exile]

So your refusing to condemn any of that list?

I think we are probably done on this subject mate, if you cant just condemn corruption at all, then we are very different.

I have no problem condemning anything that is wrong. The problem is, is that you’re making false equivalencies by trying to say a president doing a book deal after he’s president or one going on the talk circuit after president is the same as Trump coin.

I’ll ask again. Do you see any difference between Trump coin and a book deal or doing the uni talk circuit after you’re done being president?

 

[dirty harry]

I have no problem condemning anything that is wrong. The problem is, is that you’re making false equivalencies by trying to say a president doing a book deal after he’s president or one going on the talk circuit after president is the same as Trump coin.

I’ll ask again. Do you see any difference between Trump coin and a book deal or doing the uni talk circuit after you’re done being president?

Except i havnt once said that, despite you reiterating that...

Your ignoring the Bidens profitting from the Big man in the whitehouse, your ignoring presidents and politicians becoming wildly rich from insider trading, presidents starting wars that make their companies widly rich, your ignoring the biggest terror act in US history being used as a kerching by a sitting US president, politicians selling stocks before THEY make the decision that will hammer those comapniez, and boiling all that corruption down to a quick book tour after a presidency.

Infact even the speaking tours, millions of dollars in kick backs from Universitites and Gulf and middle eastern state funding both were negotiated and set up of sitting presidents, to cash out after they leave office.

Either you dont understand the level of corruptiin in US politics, or you dont care about it because its not Trump related.

I Cant remember who author was who made the quote, but he said 'every decision by every US president ever made was paid for by someone youve never heard of'

 

[Welsh Exile]

Except i havnt once said that, despite you reiterating that...

Your ignoring the Bidens profitting from the Big man in the whitehouse, your ignoring presidents and politicians becoming wildly rich from insider trading, presidents starting wars that make their companies widly rich, your ignoring the biggest terror act in US history being used as a kerching by a sitting US president, politicians selling stocks before THEY make the decision that will hammer those comapniez, and boiling all that corruption down to a quick book tour after a presidency.

Infact even the speaking tours, millions of dollars in kick backs from Universitites and Gulf and middle eastern state funding both were negotiated and set up of sitting presidents, to cash out after they leave office.

Either you dont understand the level of corruptiin in US politics, or you dont care about it because its not Trump related.

I Cant remember who author was who made the quote, but he said 'every decision by every US president ever made was paid for by someone youve never heard of'

Everything you just listed is old-school corruption - influence peddling, insider trading, nepotism. Ugly? Yes. Shocking? No. We’ve seen it for decades.

But none of them involved a president or candidate printing a personal financial asset and selling it directly to the public.

Pelosi didn’t issue PelosiCoin.
Bush didn’t sell WarTokens.
Clinton didn’t drop a tradable HillaryFund on an exchange.

Trump did.

That means voters can now speculate on a politician’s success for profit, while the politician personally profits from the speculation. That’s not just corruption — that’s a direct financial feedback loop between political power and retail money. Oh yeah, and it’s totally unregulated. So while investigations have been done on Clinton Bush, Biden etc do you think we’ll likely see the same thing with Trump coin. I hope so. I’m not saying corruption is unprecedented I’m saying the specific type of corruption Trump is engaged in is unprecedented.

If you can’t see why that’s a new level, or even something just different and unprecedented you’re either pretending not to… or you’re rooting for it.

So don’t hand me a list of past scandals like it disproves my point.

It proves you don’t understand the point.

 

[dirty harry]

Everything you just listed is old-school corruption - influence peddling, insider trading, nepotism. Ugly? Yes. Shocking? No. We’ve seen it for decades.

But none of them involved a president or candidate printing a personal financial asset and selling it directly to the public.

Pelosi didn’t issue PelosiCoin.
Bush didn’t sell WarTokens.
Clinton didn’t drop a tradable HillaryFund on an exchange.

Trump did.

That means voters can now speculate on a politician’s success for profit, while the politician personally profits from the speculation. That’s not just corruption — that’s a direct financial feedback loop between political power and retail money. Oh yeah, and it’s totally unregulated. So while investigations have been done on Clinton Bush, Biden etc do you think we’ll likely see the same thing with Trump coin. I hope so. I’m not saying corruption is unprecedented I’m saying the specific type of corruption Trump is engaged in is unprecedented.

If you can’t see why that’s a new level, or even something just different and unprecedented you’re either pretending not to… or you’re rooting for it.

So don’t hand me a list of past scandals like it disproves my point.

It proves you don’t understand the point.

You understand crypto is a new thing that Truman and Bush wouldnt have been able to Utilise right?

OLd school corruption isnt better than new school corruption, its just as bad, we just see the effects of it (Trump is absolutely the effect of old school corruption).

Ad you like to remind me, lobbying is legal, well currently Trump coin is too! Its only new in the sense the tech is new, and srrangely its out in the open, for all to engage and benefit/lose from.

The point is simple, every US president and politician is corrupt to a degree, they either live on the edge of legality, or blow right past it like famous examples ive listed above. Increaseing wealth for personal reasons is a staple of every US president, and when you say selling a branded coin, which again is currently legal and SEC watched (even if they are slow on the uptake) is worse than enriching your familys money from 9/11, or making decisions on starting a war and increasing oil prices 5x + in a few years where your legacy political family are all in on oil and security, then your lost mate!

There may well be investigations after the fact, and retrospectively policy change, but the idea that Trumps enrichment isnunprecedented, as the claim his threats to NATO and european countries are, is just based on clouded thinking based on emotional instability.

Ive given you hardcore instances of presidents being corrupt, if your stance is, ok it happens, i condemn it all, AND condemn some of the stuff Trump has done we are on the same page, but pretending it far outweighs the others is too far IMO.

The same with threatening NATO, the US always throw their might around when they dont get their way, ive just posted a Trump esque quote above, about bypassing and reducing NATO if it stands in the US way of security, that was from Biden 20 years ago lol.

Even Immigration, pretending hes tougher, when his numbers dont compare to Obamas, even year on year hes behind, including 2025 for formal deportations.

Trumps action for the most part are in line with the USAs actions over the last 50 years or so, when things are nice and easy the cooperate and everyones friends, when things toughen up a bit they get tougher and everyone freaks out, it was the same with bullying for PPE and vaccines during COVID, pulling out of Afghanistan, leaving the region in turmoil because it saved money, the Iraq War, Panama, Embargos in Latin America, even the Plaza accord...

Anyone who thinks the US are allies only in the sense it benefits them either hasnt been paying attention, or is willing to believe it. Even NATO, that was a US strategic operation to keep Russia contained in Europe and not threaten the US, it was self serving, Truman said outright Europe belonged to him not Russia (obviously not a direct quote).

 

[Welsh Exile]

You understand crypto is a new thing that Truman and Bush wouldnt have been able to Utilise right?

OLd school corruption isnt better than new school corruption, its just as bad, we just see the effects of it (Trump is absolutely the effect of old school corruption).

Ad you like to remind me, lobbying is legal, well currently Trump coin is too! Its only new in the sense the tech is new, and srrangely its out in the open, for all to engage and benefit/lose from.

The point is simple, every US president and politician is corrupt to a degree, they either live on the edge of legality, or blow right past it like famous examples ive listed above. Increaseing wealth for personal reasons is a staple of every US president, and when you say selling a branded coin, which again is currently legal and SEC watched (even if they are slow on the uptake) is worse than enriching your familys money from 9/11, or making decisions on starting a war and increasing oil prices 5x + in a few years where your legacy political family are all in on oil and security, then your lost mate!

There may well be investigations after the fact, and retrospectively policy change, but the idea that Trumps enrichment isnunprecedented, as the claim his threats to NATO and european countries are, is just based on clouded thinking based on emotional instability.

Ive given you hardcore instances of presidents being corrupt, if your stance is, ok it happens, i condemn it all, AND condemn some of the stuff Trump has done we are on the same page, but pretending it far outweighs the others is too far IMO.

The same with threatening NATO, the US always throw their might around when they dont get their way, ive just posted a Trump esque quote above, about bypassing and reducing NATO if it stands in the US way of security, that was from Biden 20 years ago lol.

Even Immigration, pretending hes tougher, when his numbers dont compare to Obamas, even year on year hes behind, including 2025 for formal deportations.

Trumps action for the most part are in line with the USAs actions over the last 50 years or so, when things are nice and easy the cooperate and everyones friends, when things toughen up a bit they get tougher and everyone freaks out, it was the same with bullying for PPE and vaccines during COVID, pulling out of Afghanistan, leaving the region in turmoil because it saved money, the Iraq War, Panama, Embargos in Latin America, even the Plaza accord...

Anyone who thinks the US are allies only in the sense it benefits them either hasnt been paying attention, or is willing to believe it. Even NATO, that was a US strategic operation to keep Russia contained in Europe and not threaten the US, it was self serving, Truman said outright Europe belonged to him not Russia (obviously not a direct quote).

My argument isn’t that curruption is unprecedented. Clearly it’s not. Argument is that what Trump is specifically doing with Trump coin is unprecedented. Your argument seems to be it’s all corruption so therefore all the same. It trivialises and normalises Trumps behaviour as you just wrote it off as “it’s the same” my argument is that it’s not.

Yes, crypto is new tech but the novelty isn’t the tech. The novelty is a president issuing a speculative financial asset whose value rises with his political success, while personally benefiting from that rise. Plus the fact it’s totally unregulated. Who knows what foreign contributions he’s getting?

That is a direct monetisation loop between public office and retail speculation. None of your examples do that.

Old-school corruption are things like influence, Insider access, lobbying and things like that. Trump Coin is the direct sale of a personal asset to the public where its price is tied to his political fortunes and where he personally profits (hasn’t his net worth doubled or something ridiculous since he’s been president - that might need a fact check)

None of that is “same corruption, new tech.” It’s a new structural mechanism

None of that is to say that old corruption isn’t bad in hardly going to defend Bush or any politician from “my side” or not if they’re corrupt but saying ‘everything is corrupt’ is not an argument that nothing is unprecedented.

The “it’s legal” argument doesn’t wash with me either. As you say it’s a new tech, insider trading was legal so was unlimited corporate bribery until laws were brought in so saying it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous or unprecedented.

Th Bush stuff is also totally different.
If you can’t see the difference between indirect benefit from policy and minting a tradeable token of your own political brand, that’s willful blindness.

Don’t know what you’re going on abint the NATO immigration stuff. It’s totally irrelevant as to whether a candidate running a personal speculative asset market is new.

You’re throwing everything at the wall to avoid one simple point:

No previous US president has issued a personal financial instrument to the public while seeking office.

Not oil stocks.
Not defense shares.
Not foundations.
Not speaking fees.

A tradeable, price-speculated, politician-branded asset. That is the unprecedented part. If your argument is:

“US politics is corrupt, therefore this isn’t special”

Then congratulations, you’ve stopped analysing and moved to nihilism. I know you’ve watched Wales for the last 6 years so can understand your bleak outlook but this is silly. I don’t know why you can’t just admit that this is something, like Jan 6th and the way he’s going about Greenland is unprecedented.

 

[dirty harry]

Yes, crypto is new tech but the novelty isn’t the tech. The novelty is a president issuing a speculative financial asset whose value rises with his political success, while personally benefiting from that rise.

Thats literally the definition a brand, every president benefits financially from their political success. Trumps coin is front facing, and not in the shadows unknown by a voting public.

You say your concerned about which foreign entities are putting money in, yet ignore the fact the Clintons set up a charity to specifically receive money from Gulf and middle eastern nations lol. So when you see it happened previously, its less worrying than if it might happen again? Your going to have to explain that to me!

Your hyper focused on the crypto element, because of the tech being new. Its just another asset to abuse by a US president.

Trumps wealth has gone from 3.9B to about 6.5B i believe, he consistently lost money between 2016 and 2023, when the media comapnies floated and earned him nearly 4B. Truth social has been his biggest maker, and really life line as at one point he was on the breadline barely worth 2B lol.

Trump coin is probably worth about 400 million to Trump currently, maybe some more, its a part of his larger portfolio, but its a volatile meme coin, that can crash the second hes sick or out of office, or even in prison, its why im not in it... much hahaha.

US politics is corrupt, and none of these actions (Including NATO and Greenland) are new when you understand the US's history of bullying, corruption and disregard for anyone outside of their borders. Trump is just an more verbally agressive version of Bush, which is probably the last time the US was challenged globally.

Look at his first term, things were rosy for the US, little challenges globally and he was the most peaceful sitting president in decades. Then all hell broke loose under Biden and now Trump has to act, and as hes being advised by people who know and understand US history, long term planning and global strategy, better than you or I, he is implimenting very standard US behaviour on the world stage, followed a 60 year old discussion on Greenland, threatened NATO for the 20th time since it was set up to benefit the US interests in Europe, followed Obamas lead on immigration policy, well technically mimicked Obamas actions (i bet hes still annoyed he cant beat his numbers), and is doing what every other presidrnt has done, by barely legally enriching himself while in office (or at least making the deals while in office to enrich themselves after leaving).

None of this is new in a 100 year view of things, Greenland has been made an offer to purchase before, Harsh immigration reforms have been enacted before, criticisism of the sitting presidents business dealings happen avery 4 years, US threatening NATO happens whenever they dont get their way, and people whine about the current thing being worse than all the previous things daily...

In 3 years when say Tim Waltz is president, Repiblicans will be screatching that his Minnesota fraud was unprecedented, they cant believe he is spending more money in Ukraine to start an umprecedented WW3, or that he is threaetening to use the insurrection act unprecedented in Texas, and the unprecedented black women in Harris as Vice isnt unprexedentadly unqualified for the role...

I will concede to you though, there is some unprecedented actions here...

This is the first time in human history all this stuff has played out in public view, that we have had access to every decision, and Trump tweets and blurts out every thought in his head in front of a camera, but specifically to criticise Trump his communication and messaging is very un president like.

But hey, the failure of presidents, and politicians is why hes here, and he is a great representitive of an American public.

But keep insisting Brawndo has electrlites, if it comforts you.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Thats literally the definition a brand, every president benefits financially from their political success. Trumps coin is front facing, and not in the shadows unknown by a voting public.

You say your concerned about which foreign entities are putting money in, yet ignore the fact the Clintons set up a charity to specifically receive money from Gulf and middle eastern nations lol. So when you see it happened previously, its less worrying than if it might happen again? Your going to have to explain that to me!

Your hyper focused on the crypto element, because of the tech being new. Its just another asset to abuse by a US president.

Trumps wealth has gone from 3.9B to about 6.5B i believe, he consistently lost money between 2016 and 2023, when the media comapnies floated and earned him nearly 4B. Truth social has been his biggest maker, and really life line as at one point he was on the breadline barely worth 2B lol.

Trump coin is probably worth about 400 million to Trump currently, maybe some more, its a part of his larger portfolio, but its a volatile meme coin, that can crash the second hes sick or out of office, or even in prison, its why im not in it... much hahaha.

US politics is corrupt, and none of these actions (Including NATO and Greenland) are new when you understand the US's history of bullying, corruption and disregard for anyone outside of their borders. Trump is just an more verbally agressive version of Bush, which is probably the last time the US was challenged globally.

Look at his first term, things were rosy for the US, little challenges globally and he was the most peaceful sitting president in decades. Then all hell broke loose under Biden and now Trump has to act, and as hes being advised by people who know and understand US history, long term planning and global strategy, better than you or I, he is implimenting very standard US behaviour on the world stage, followed a 60 year old discussion on Greenland, threatened NATO for the 20th time since it was set up to benefit the US interests in Europe, followed Obamas lead on immigration policy, well technically mimicked Obamas actions (i bet hes still annoyed he cant beat his numbers), and is doing what every other presidrnt has done, by barely legally enriching himself while in office (or at least making the deals while in office to enrich themselves after leaving).

None of this is new in a 100 year view of things, Greenland has been made an offer to purchase before, Harsh immigration reforms have been enacted before, criticisism of the sitting presidents business dealings happen avery 4 years, US threatening NATO happens whenever they dont get their way, and people whine about the current thing being worse than all the previous things daily...

In 3 years when say Tim Waltz is president, Repiblicans will be screatching that his Minnesota fraud was unprecedented, they cant believe he is spending more money in Ukraine to start an umprecedented WW3, or that he is threaetening to use the insurrection act unprecedented in Texas, and the unprecedented black women in Harris as Vice isnt unprexedentadly unqualified for the role...

I will concede to you though, there is some unprecedented actions here...

This is the first time in human history all this stuff has played out in public view, that we have had access to every decision, and Trump tweets and blurts out every thought in his head in front of a camera, but specifically to criticise Trump his communication and messaging is very un president like.

But hey, the failure of presidents, and politicians is why hes here, and he is a great representitive of an American public.

But keep insisting Brawndo has electrlites, if it comforts you.

This is long. Lol

You’re still dodging the core point. Yes, every president benefits from brand value after office. Books, speeches, foundations, board seats. That’s post-office monetisation.

Trump Coin is in-office monetisation. A speculative asset whose price rises with his political success, while he personally holds the upside. That creates a live financial feedback loop between political power and market speculation.

That mechanism did not exist with Clinton speeches, Bush oil shares, or Obama book deals. Those were indirect or delayed benefits. This is direct and real-time.

Calling it “just a brand” ignores that It’s tradeable, volatile, It invites domestic and foreign actors to buy political exposure and the issuer profits while holding power

That’s why it’s unprecedented. Not because corruption is new because this specific structure is new.

 

[ncurd]

I think you guys are missing the key point crypto coins are completely unregulated financial asset that are essentially a Ponzi scheme the President has no interest in giving the sector proper regulation as per other areas of finance but they are directly making money from it.

 

[Saintjay]

I gave up following tbh. Given current events. Arguing over who was most dodgy for 32 pages. Is as much use as a cock flavoured lollipop.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think you guys are missing the key point crypto coins are completely unregulated financial asset that are essentially a Ponzi scheme the President has no interest in giving the sector proper regulation as per other areas of finance but they are directly making money from it.

Ahem, I have made that point a couple of times (amongst the pages of posts)

 

[dirty harry]

This is long. Lol

You’re still dodging the core point. Yes, every president benefits from brand value after office. Books, speeches, foundations, board seats. That’s post-office monetisation.

Trump Coin is in-office monetisation. A speculative asset whose price rises with his political success, while he personally holds the upside. That creates a live financial feedback loop between political power and market speculation.

That mechanism did not exist with Clinton speeches, Bush oil shares, or Obama book deals. Those were indirect or delayed benefits. This is direct and real-time.

Calling it “just a brand” ignores that It’s tradeable, volatile, It invites domestic and foreign actors to buy political exposure and the issuer profits while holding power

That’s why it’s unprecedented. Not because corruption is new because this specific structure is new.

I think we are talking across each other, because we arr both reiterating points at each other lol, and i think theres something missing.

The president, or all politicians having the ability to move markets in real time and profit have absolutely happened, i just gave you a list. Bush made an absolute bucket load right after 9/11 and then making the decision to gonto war, knowing he would become even richer was worse than a coin, that was a decision knowing he would benefit from it.

Look at the COVID scumbags, on intelligence meetings, and dumping stocks hourse before recomending lockdowns, or even more modern, look at Illan Omar. She used her consultant boyfriend on her first campaign and paid him massively, then married him, and he went from being an advertising guru to a venture capitalist and wine entreprenaur, before those 2 companies went from 10k valuations to 10s of millions within a year or so of her election, or Pelosis husband cashing in on wildly lucky trade hours before his wife anounces legislation change, literally, moments before Pelosi guided an Act that gave 50 billion plus to tech companies, hes throwing millions at tech companies hahahaha.

Theres a reason they keep the trade disclosures at 45 days, and theres a reason that not 1 person has been prosecuted under the stock act, despite 50+ members have confirmed to have broken it, and the latest estimated figure is that 12 to 15% of trades break it.

Trumps coin could provide an avenue for foreign investment for political exposure, thats called pay tonplay and its rife in Congress. The Clintons did it through their charity, Cheney and Bush did it with Halliburton, obamas campaign donors were involved in Solyndra, they managed to buy influence and secured half a billion dollars, before cashing in and going bankrupt (although this is a less egregious case, unless it was just a case of Obama covering his arse better who knows).

So your idea, trump coin could enable 'buying political exposure' is spot on, and absolurely typical for US politics.

I suppose your right, Crypto isnunprecedented, because most other presidents keep their dodgy lobbyist and pay for play dealings as secret as possible.

 

[dirty harry]

I think you guys are missing the key point crypto coins are completely unregulated financial asset that are essentially a Ponzi scheme the President has no interest in giving the sector proper regulation as per other areas of finance but they are directly making money from it.

Theyre not completely unrrgulated, regulation is just fractured, between a number of agencies depending on the situation / crime

 

[dirty harry]

Ahem, I have made that point a couple of times (amongst the pages of posts)

AHem, see above.

 

[dirty harry]

I gave up following tbh. Given current events. Arguing over who was most dodgy for 32 pages. Is as much use as a cock flavoured lollipop.

The argument isnt who is most dodgy, that would depend on subjective view, and context.

MY entire argument is that self financial gain, and money in politics has always been a problem, Trumps monetary gains are not imprecedented, both in stature (Obama, Clinton, Bush all 20 -50x their personal wealth) or in strategy, lobbying ,pay to play, financial market manipulation, fraud etc are par for the course for poloticians in the US...

Trump is not uniquely a scumbag.

 

[Gavin]