• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

USA news & politics

The US government has walked back pretty much all the claims they made about Maduro as justification for him standing trial, in particular being head of a cartel they have now admitted doesn't exist. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/doj-admits-maduro-drug-cartel-181136029.html?guccounter=1

By all accounts Maduro is a nasty piece of work but it seems there is a very real chance he could be found not guilty because the charges that have been brought against him are works of fiction and the Trump DoJ has again made the mistake of trying to use the lies they tell in public in an actual criminal prosecution.
Just the idea of taking a foreign leader and putting him on trial in a different country just seems, at best, weird and at worst reprehensible.

The idea of then losing that case is pretty funny.
 
Again not reading what is written. I didn't suggest they simply ran up and executed her anywhere. You do this a lot Harry, stop creating strawman arguments. What I said was they approached her car and immediately tried opening the door. At the moment we have no evidence of just cause beyond her car being across the road, which wasn't stopping vehicles going past as the video shows a vehicle going past.

I am more neutral about the justification for ICE approaching her, although the evidence to justify that isn't present beyond how her car is angled. I'm not neutral about the quick escalation to lethal force against national guidelines nor the blatant lying by the administration. Yes the Democrats are lying about the degree of innocence but the 2 are not even remotely on the same level. One is justifying killing someone, the other is justifying having a car across the road. Do you think these 2 things are remotely comparable? Not all lies are equal.

No if you find yourself picking a side that doesn't make you wrong.

Which even in the video they didnt do, she was ordered to get out of the car twice before someone tried the door, what led up to that we dont know, was it oflver zelous agents trying to oppress a poet? Or had she been threatening, and using her car as a blockade to stop them from actioning orders?

WE dont have evidence of right or wrong doing currently, which is why its wrong to use this as a political weapon to bash either side.

One side is calling it a terror event, the other a murder, those are polar extremes to what the situation can be perceived as, yes they are the same, the tragedy of the killing makes no difference to politcal scumbaggery from both sides. Its a shame you cant condemn Frey and Omar as much as you can Noem and Vance, infact at least Waltz dropped a 'protest peacefully' while calling ICE a danger to Minnesotans, Trump wanting violence and asking people not to be violent to the national guard hes brought in.

Someone has to be a voice of reason, i would hope it would be on the left but it isnt, theyre all ******* disgusting, and thats the reason we got Trump in the first place!

Tim Waltz speach was reasonable for 47 words (introductions and condolences) before he went into 'i Told you Trump was going to do this' FMFL!
 
Which even in the video they didnt do, she was ordered to get out of the car twice before someone tried the door, what led up to that we dont know, was it oflver zelous agents trying to oppress a poet? Or had she been threatening, and using her car as a blockade to stop them from actioning orders?

WE dont have evidence of right or wrong doing currently, which is why its wrong to use this as a political weapon to bash either side.

One side is calling it a terror event, the other a murder, those are polar extremes to what the situation can be perceived as, yes they are the same, the tragedy of the killing makes no difference to politcal scumbaggery from both sides. Its a shame you cant condemn Frey and Omar as much as you can Noem and Vance, infact at least Waltz dropped a 'protest peacefully' while calling ICE a danger to Minnesotans, Trump wanting violence and asking people not to be violent to the national guard hes brought in.

Someone has to be a voice of reason, i would hope it would be on the left but it isnt, theyre all ******* disgusting, and thats the reason we got Trump in the first place!

Tim Waltz speach was reasonable for 47 words (introductions and condolences) before he went into 'i Told you Trump was going to do this' FMFL!
Is that the extreme stuff the Dems are saying (that it’s a murder?)

If so not really on same level as labelling the woman as a terrorist.
 
The US government has walked back pretty much all the claims they made about Maduro as justification for him standing trial, in particular being head of a cartel they have now admitted doesn't exist. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/doj-admits-maduro-drug-cartel-181136029.html?guccounter=1

By all accounts Maduro is a nasty piece of work but it seems there is a very real chance he could be found not guilty because the charges that have been brought against him are works of fiction and the Trump DoJ has again made the mistake of trying to use the lies they tell in public in an actual criminal prosecution.

The Trump DOJ created this lie? 1000018292.gif
 
Just the idea of taking a foreign leader and putting him on trial in a different country just seems, at best, weird and at worst reprehensible.

The idea of then losing that case is pretty funny.

Is he a foreign leader?

Granted, him walking free would be hilarious (he would get about 7 yards before something happened to him mind)
 
Well yeah. But I see what you’re getting at. To be honest him being a leader isn’t central to the point but does make it way weirder, at best.

Ye, I didnt realise Bidens 25m bounty was upped by Trump to 50m... imagine this is all a set up by Maduro, hes in cahoots with someone whos received 50m, then theyll split it when hes back hahaha
 
Which even in the video they didnt do, she was ordered to get out of the car twice before someone tried the door, what led up to that we dont know, was it oflver zelous agents trying to oppress a poet? Or had she been threatening, and using her car as a blockade to stop them from actioning orders?

WE dont have evidence of right or wrong doing currently, which is why its wrong to use this as a political weapon to bash either side.

One side is calling it a terror event, the other a murder, those are polar extremes to what the situation can be perceived as, yes they are the same, the tragedy of the killing makes no difference to politcal scumbaggery from both sides. Its a shame you cant condemn Frey and Omar as much as you can Noem and Vance, infact at least Waltz dropped a 'protest peacefully' while calling ICE a danger to Minnesotans, Trump wanting violence and asking people not to be violent to the national guard hes brought in.

Someone has to be a voice of reason, i would hope it would be on the left but it isnt, theyre all ******* disgusting, and thats the reason we got Trump in the first place!

Tim Waltz speach was reasonable for 47 words (introductions and condolences) before he went into 'i Told you Trump was going to do this' FMFL!
Again, do you think lying about her being completely innocent is worse than lying about her being a terrorist?
 
No, i find both lies reprehensible, and noone promoting the lies is honest and just politicking which i condemn on both sides... do you join me in condemnation of both?
Then you and I differ, I find one lie vastly worse than another. I condemn both sides but not to the same extent because what they are saying is not remotely the same.
 
Then you and I differ, I find one lie vastly worse than another. I condemn both sides but not to the same extent because what they are saying is not remotely the same.

It isnt the same, its polar opposite, and both come from a standpoint of framing a narrative not truth or honesty.

None of Waltz, Grey, Omar, Vance and Noem had any real knowledge of the situation when they started commenting, 1 claims guilt the other claims innocence. It rrally is that simple, if she was innocent and evidence and context comes out then so be it, the ICE agent can be dealt with accordingly, if it turns out she did track down ICE eith her partner, was using a car as a weapon, obstructing them, and did gun it directly (or indirectly) at agents then also so be it (and the ICE agent may still need to be dealt with).

Like i said, of the entire situation I dont know who is right there is merit to rational points, as you mentioned above wheel turns look like fleaing to me aldo, but when stood in front of a revving car gun drawn im mot sure if notice wheel direction also... truth is she was definayely not an innocent bystander, shes in her car sidewats in the middle of the road while a protest that included her wife was going on, in a time ICE agents are getting harrased, attacked and injured around the country, but realistically she isnt a demostic terrorist, hell bent on murdering ICE agents.

In my view she is an idiot who threw herself into a situation she had no business being in, and as things escelate she panics out of fear, and the agent does similar. She shouldnt have been therr, hes ******.
 
No pivoting, I've repeated myself over and over. ICE have a limited jurisdiction. They are federal officer but they are NOT a federal police force, ie it's not their job to do the role of local and state police forces nor do they have the same powers to do so. ICE officers are limited in their scope of how they can justifiably detain and arrest people. Police can detain people on suspicion a crime has been committed, ICE cannot unless it relates to the immigration status of the person in question.

A local cop can arrest someone in a different area if it literally happens right in front of them but they don't have the authority to start enforcing that beyond their jurisdiction without the approval of the local law enforcement who actually covers the area, the except being in pursuit cases. I've read a source that said, although her car was across the road, she had let ICE vehicles through previously.

It is besides the point, the ICE resorted to lethal force and yet have provided no evidence of exactly how their operations were being impeded.

Look at this, although no doubt you will do your usual trick of watching 5 seconds and arbitrarily deciding you don't like the tone and discounting it:


So it took me a while to watch it, but a very good video and assessment.

Very interesting to see he may have been hit by the car, my view was that he definately wasnt originally.

Also fascinatingly, i hadnt seen the approaching officer reach into the car, it is that exact moment that Ross pulls his gun. Until then Ross is meandering around seemingly unconcerned, but when he sees a colleague reach in a moving car, he draws. And what happened to him 6 months ago, he reached into a car and wss drsgged 100 yards and injured. Maybe that contributed to panic. Maybe he shouldnt have been backnin duty?

But we still dont know enough of the big picture to make a proper assessment. Its nice to see someone condemning both sides of rhetoric, infsct thisnguy aligns with most of my points made today, im surprised you watched this.
 
Child Trafficking
 

Latest posts

Back
Top