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Transfers rumours

Groundhog said:
Weird decision in my opinion. Connacht regressed sure, but that's not just a Keane thing. It's a very limited in terms of talent thing too. Also hope they have a replacement lined up because if not they're about to enter Ulster territory of limbo. Took them a good long while to line up a decent replacement
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Rumours are he wasn't liked up there by players or board.
 
MPress01 said:
Probably a fair enough stance by the IRFU - in reality the last thing you want is to force a player to move to somewhere they don't wish to go as this will inevitably impact their playing standard/development.

Going against the general consensus of Ulster Rugby Supporters, i actually am not that keen on Joey coming to Ulster. I don't think he has the requisite game management skills to run as a 10 (albeit that could develop during a season as a starter....). Even though i am not convinced by his speed-bumpesque defensive skills, i feel the last few weeks Johnny McPhillips has demonstrated and increased level of maturity to his game play.
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MPress01 said:
Probably a fair enough stance by the IRFU - in reality the last thing you want is to force a player to move to somewhere they don't wish to go as this will inevitably impact their playing standard/development.

Going against the general consensus of Ulster Rugby Supporters, i actually am not that keen on Joey coming to Ulster. I don't think he has the requisite game management skills to run as a 10 (albeit that could develop during a season as a starter....). Even though i am not convinced by his speed-bumpesque defensive skills, i feel the last few weeks Johnny McPhillips has demonstrated and increased level of maturity to his game play.
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MPress01 said:
Probably a fair enough stance by the IRFU - in reality the last thing you want is to force a player to move to somewhere they don't wish to go as this will inevitably impact their playing standard/development.

Going against the general consensus of Ulster Rugby Supporters, i actually am not that keen on Joey coming to Ulster. I don't think he has the requisite game management skills to run as a 10 (albeit that could develop during a season as a starter....). Even though i am not convinced by his speed-bumpesque defensive skills, i feel the last few weeks Johnny McPhillips has demonstrated and increased level of maturity to his game play.
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In fairness alot feel like that. Thing is with Joey we don't know what he will be like as 10. Has the potential for sure but proof is only when he has to lead a team in big games at 10. So it is a case of yes the tools and potential are there but the proof is needed. Guess we will see how it plays out but Ulster at least are getting foundations right
 
Carbery will do well if he goes, people forget just how good he was when he got a string of games at 10 at the start of the 2016/17 season. Even in the 6n it was clear that he only needs about 40mins rugby there to get to a strong level, he was very good in his England cameo. This move will be good for all involved (Ulster short term, Ster long term, Ireland both) presuming he returns to Ster after the RWC or in 2020 and I can't see him selecting to stay in Belfast given the choice when Sextruck goes.
 
munstermuffin said:
In fairness alot feel like that. Thing is with Joey we don't know what he will be like as 10. Has the potential for sure but proof is only when he has to lead a team in big games at 10. So it is a case of yes the tools and potential are there but the proof is needed. Guess we will see how it plays out but Ulster at least are getting foundations right
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Well i wouldn't say we are getting the foundations right.... just yet. We obviously have targeted players in Marty Moore, Will Addison & Jordi Murphy who 1) upgrade a position of need, and 2) have international aspirations. Certainly something i am pleased to see as we fell to journey men who maybe didn't have the motivation to fight hard when times got tough. But i agree that Carbery has undoubted potential, its just whether he can pull it together for a full 80, then a series of games against top opposition.

The Alpha Bro said:
Carbery will do well if he goes, people forget just how good he was when he got a string of games at 10 at the start of the 2016/17 season. Even in the 6n it was clear that he only needs about 40mins rugby there to get to a strong level, he was very good in his England cameo. This move will be good for all involved (Ulster short term, Ster long term, Ireland both) presuming he returns to Ster after the RWC or in 2020 and I can't see him selecting to stay in Belfast given the choice when Sextruck goes.
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I'm not doubting his talent, i just question whether he has the requisite professionalism and rugby brain to manage a game from 10 for a full 80, and then a series of games. It's a very different environment to a cameo role in the last 2-30 minutes of a game especially with a fresh set of legs when the opposition are tiring. It is some time since he had a run of games at 10 and there must be a reason why he's 3rd choice O/Half at Leinster and id prefer us to stick it out with McPhillips if Carbery is the agenda being pushed by the IRFU.
 
MPress01 said:
Well i wouldn't say we are getting the foundations right.... just yet. We obviously have targeted players in Marty Moore, Will Addison & Jordi Murphy who 1) upgrade a position of need, and 2) have international aspirations. Certainly something i am pleased to see as we fell to journey men who maybe didn't have the motivation to fight hard when times got tough. But i agree that Carbery has undoubted potential, its just whether he can pull it together for a full 80, then a series of games against top opposition.



I'm not doubting his talent, i just question whether he has the requisite professionalism and rugby brain to manage a game from 10 for a full 80, and then a series of games. It's a very different environment to a cameo role in the last 2-30 minutes of a game especially with a fresh set of legs when the opposition are tiring. It is some time since he had a run of games at 10 and there must be a reason why he's 3rd choice O/Half at Leinster and id prefer us to stick it out with McPhillips if Carbery is the agenda being pushed by the IRFU.
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I don't think the bolded and not wanting Carbery add up, especially considering you also cite international aspirations as a positive trait for a player and if Carbery chooses to go there its for his own international aspirations - Questioning the professionalism of a 22 year old, 10 cap international is bizarre also - and the reason he is third choice 10 at Leinster is because he's second choice 15 behind a player on a central contract, when Kearney is available Carbery is second choice to Sexton, there is literally nothing more to it than that no matter what people suggest, he is and always will be a better 10 than Ross Byrne who has much more restrictive limitations to his game than Carbery.

The one genuine, and not fabricated or misguided, worry in this post is his ability to manage a game as a starter, he failed to do it against Treviso, struggled against Fiji and has had no other 10 starts since 2016. The good news is that, back when Isa was still being used at 15 and JC was solely used at 10 he did control games well, and he did it up to European level where he started in a drubbing of Castres, the following week he replaced an injured Johnny Sexton and helped salvage a BP away to Montpellier. He hasn't lost this ability, and he's developed his skills since then, give him time and he's a far better option than McPhillips who is rumoured to be on his way out regardless. Ulster are also lacking in quantity of 10's as well as quality so I really can't fathom not wanting Ireland's second choice 10.

There's so much worry about Leinster's two tens when they're both far more experienced than Sexton at the same age who couldn't get a game ahead of Felipe Contempomi and Isa Nacewa, no flyhalves have the ability to control a game consistently at 22, its the most difficult and valued backs role for a reason.
 
There is a risk on Carbery side too. He could go to Ulster. If he does fail to convince has mixed bag up there. What will that mean for Ireland in a way. In turn it may hurt his confidence. Also it opens door for somewhere to possibly overtake Carbery in Leinster and well a route back may not be pure simple.

@Alpha. Nobody is doubting Joeys potential it's more he's never had consistent run being the man at 10 in a string of meaningful games and being a leader at 10. As you point out there are various reasons for that. But equally they do have negative side too. This is what will be acid test for Joey. Can he come out of Sextons shadow and be a leader. It is 1 of those you feel is high risk high reward
 
Big_Grumper said:
That one's been doing the rounds for a couple of weeks. Shedheads are divided on the topic.
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I would be a bit disappointed tbh. Never look back and all.

I'm hoping that if I wish for it hard enough, Elton Jantjies will sign for Glos. Out of contract, loads of mates at Glos now, would fit into the play style, the Ackermann link...
 
Didn't the Saracens money men say they wanted to pull out because there wasn't enough south African players there anymore? Maybe Gloucester fancy a stadium renovation and a few private jets?



Also sounds like we've signed Paddy Jackson and almost Olding.
Hrmmm
 
Neither Carbery or Byrne are leaving reportedly. Leaves us in a situation where our 2nd and 3rd best 10s are in the Prem and our 4th and 5th best arent starters in their club... Not ideal. #SpecialexemptionMaddog #Youknowyouwantit
 
Tigs Man said:
Or it's a player that can voice their opinions now that they are free from the tyranny of Wasps.

TBH outside of Haskell who will have a grudge on Wasps?

As Olyy though says hard to take anything Goode says about Wasps properly.
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Tyranny is a little extreme isn't it? who knows the reasoning but doesn't seem to have affected players in general which is good..

it's just a shame that's how somebody has decided to bow out..
 
Sale apparently will be signing Jackson maybe Olding but won't announce it until season's end. Comes from Murray Kinsella so I do believe it.
 
The Alpha Bro said:
I don't think the bolded and not wanting Carbery add up, especially considering you also cite international aspirations as a positive trait for a player and if Carbery chooses to go there its for his own international aspirations - Questioning the professionalism of a 22 year old, 10 cap international is bizarre also - and the reason he is third choice 10 at Leinster is because he's second choice 15 behind a player on a central contract, when Kearney is available Carbery is second choice to Sexton, there is literally nothing more to it than that no matter what people suggest, he is and always will be a better 10 than Ross Byrne who has much more restrictive limitations to his game than Carbery.

The one genuine, and not fabricated or misguided, worry in this post is his ability to manage a game as a starter, he failed to do it against Treviso, struggled against Fiji and has had no other 10 starts since 2016. The good news is that, back when Isa was still being used at 15 and JC was solely used at 10 he did control games well, and he did it up to European level where he started in a drubbing of Castres, the following week he replaced an injured Johnny Sexton and helped salvage a BP away to Montpellier. He hasn't lost this ability, and he's developed his skills since then, give him time and he's a far better option than McPhillips who is rumoured to be on his way out regardless. Ulster are also lacking in quantity of 10's as well as quality so I really can't fathom not wanting Ireland's second choice 10.

There's so much worry about Leinster's two tens when they're both far more experienced than Sexton at the same age who couldn't get a game ahead of Felipe Contempomi and Isa Nacewa, no flyhalves have the ability to control a game consistently at 22, its the most difficult and valued backs role for a reason.
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Professionalism probably wasn't the correct wording to articulate what i meant - maybe his rugby maturity would be more apt? That said he is still very young and that rawness will hopefully fade away to leave the IRFU with a strong post-Sexton contingency plan going forward.

You are correct in that we have no real options (aside from J McPhillips who is also very rough around the edges) so i guess we have to take whatever hand we are dealt. Angus Curtis is not a 10, and Cooney operated better as a 9 so we are restricted in what we can do. If it is Carbery, i hope he does take the the 'next step' and the 'toxic backdrop' at Ulster doesn't stymie that development.
 

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