Transfers rumours

[ratsapprentice]

Was SA A team South Africa designated second team?

Saxons, not a generic "England XV", so it should have tied everyone.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We are looking for a 15. But I doubt there any truth. Only scenario I would guess is it's a short term contract to plug a gap. He's a good player though. Certainly wouldn't dismiss him but unlikely I know there has been a SH based 15 approached but fee too much

Bad times

 

[munstermuffin]

Bad times

Now also had look and they report there is a way around becoming IQ. As I said he would be a good option and obviously wouldn't be top dollar in terms of salary. But before you said it I hadn't heard him mentioned and well here in UL you'd hear names tossed about 1 way or another. Also he is a perfect age too with good experience but I'd more hazard a guess we being used as bargaining tool

 

[Which Tyler]

Now also had look and they report there is a way around becoming IQ. As I said he would be a good option and obviously wouldn't be top dollar in terms of salary. But before you said it I hadn't heard him mentioned and well here in UL you'd hear names tossed about 1 way or another. Also he is a perfect age too with good experience but I'd more hazard a guess we being used as bargaining tool

Isn't "then way around" to wait 5 years and then spend some time with the 7s squad? And that having established a "genuine attachment" to the new country (sonbirth or a parent).
Seems like a hell of an ask for someone who's not shown much in the last couple of years to show worthy of an English EPS place.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Isn't "then way around" to wait 5 years and then spend some time with the 7s squad? And that having established a "genuine attachment" to the new country (sonbirth or a parent).
Seems like a hell of an ask for someone who's not shown much in the last couple of years to show worthy of an English EPS place.

Can he not switch straight away into the 7s considering he has an Irish parent?
I don't like the idea of a guy who is 24, pursued an international career with England, presumably rejected the Irish exile programme and made no attempt to play for us until the realisation England wasn't for him. Would be a cracking signing for Munster though.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Do the Irish even have an elite 7's side that he could play in?

 

[munstermuffin]

Yes. He can switch straight away as it seems if you only play with secondary side it's easier. But have asked 1 or 2 lads already here today. 1 being a fellow medical team and other being an academy coach and both didn't hear his name either. So maybe it is possible. But for Munster and IRFU to go to all that hassle he'd nearly want to be a certain international. If he came as an NIQ though it would be good too. He is a good player. He is young and seems to be a perfect fit for our squad. He wouldn't be gone for internationals, he would be good enough and well wouldn't cost alot. I suppose it just strange as we don't really take many NIQs from UK or France. And I like the idea the more I think about it like lads sometimes come from NZ and demand a larger wage for simply that reason. I'v no doubt if James Lowe wasn't NZ then his value would be less. Same for Saili when he was with us or Piatau. Like a Howlett or Elsom I get in that they have been established international but fringe guys etc. And not a dig at them there talents are there just more a case of nationality does decide the value of some

 

[Groundhog]

@munstermuffin rugbypass are saying Munster are after Mike Haley - any truth in it?

He's not Irish qualified (played for England Saxons) so I can't see it.

That would be a weird ass signing....

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

World Rugby declared in May 2017 that a nations u20 team can no longer be nominated as "second team" from January 2018. South Africa had nominated their u20 team as their "second team" when Haley played for the Bok As against the Saxons. Since only the Saxons were a nominated "second team", Haley isn't enslaved by an England ruined by Brexit.

I know SFA about Haley. All I can see is that he signed a 3 year contract in 2016.

 

[Which Tyler]

What would which team the saffers nominate change the fact that he player 2 matches for the Saxons - who were England's second team, and confirm him as an England player? Are we talking about a different Mike Haley? Or did you think he was playing for South Africa? The requirement that both teams in a fixture need to be the nominated second team disappeared a long time ago (or did it reappear again?)

I'm completely unaware of re-registering being easier for secondary teams than for 1st XVs. Is there a reference for that?


ETA: from my reading of regular 8.6 - 8.7, I see no mention of this whatsoever. Once tied, you're tied, bar the stand-down period (3 years, not sure if my memory of 5 years is confusion over the increase in residency, or that that increase was for both), participation in "an Olympic event" (AKA 7s), and co Vince the regulations committee that he's genuine.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I believe the law still applies that a player is only captured by a nation if he's played for the senior team against another senior team or 2nd team against 2nd team.

http://www.worldrugby.org/wr-resour.../English/pubData/source/files/Regulation8.pdf

For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a Union if:
(a) He is selected for such team to play in an International Match against the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union (or in a fifteen-a-side international Match against another Union's senior or next senior Touring Squad during a World Rugby approved International Tour) and is present at the Match played by that team either as a replacement, substitute or a playing member of that team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority

If the Bok As weren't the nominated 2nd senior team, Haley's cap for the Saxons against them doesn't tie him to England. Who was his other Saxons cap against? If it was the Baa-Baas, that doesn't tie him to England either.

 

[munstermuffin]

I believe the law still applies that a player is only captured by a nation if he's played for the senior team against another senior team or 2nd team against 2nd team.

If the Bok As weren't the nominated 2nd senior team, Haley's cap for the Saxons against them doesn't tie him to England. Who was his other Saxons cap against? If it was the Baa-Baas, that doesn't tie him to England either.

BaaBaas is different as it isn't classes as International Snoop. Not sure myself on laws regarding A team and ties but the best way to describe it is if you play an A game like Haley he still received 2 A Caps. If he played for England vs BaaBaas he's still classed as never having played any international game.
The A games are treated as lower class internationals where the BaaBaas games are treated representative friendly

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Both his Saxons games were vs South Africa A, usually when we play Barbarians it's as England A or England XV.

 

[munstermuffin]

Both his Saxons games were vs South Africa A, usually when we play Barbarians it's as England A or England XV.

But that is probably a RFU decision. Like Ireland stay as Ireland. But point is it's technically not an international

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Oh absolutely,
The barbarians games are friendlies so we don't use an official side (England or Saxons).
I was under the impression Haley was tied to England through his Saxons caps, But if that's not the case then he's probably got an Irish grannies tucked away somewhere like James Mitchell and Ciaran Parker

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Surely he has no better chance with Ireland than with England? Kearney, Larmour, Conway, Carberry, O'Halloran etc. is a much more threatening list than a 32 year old Brown and winger Watson. Not that I think he has a particularly large chance with England either, but logically...

 

[ratsapprentice]

This is where genetics play their part... he's better off west.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Surely he has no better chance with Ireland than with England? Kearney, Larmour, Conway, Carberry, O'Halloran etc. is a much more threatening list than a 32 year old Brown and winger Watson. Not that I think he has a particularly large chance with England either, but logically...

From a Munster perspective, the fact that he may be qualified to play for Ireland is the most important thing. It frees up a NIQ spot for another player. Doesn't matter if he isn't good enough to play for Ireland.

This all supposes the rumour is true which may not be the case.

 

[munstermuffin]

Rumours Leo and Lancaster have told Dave Kearney he is not wanted at Leinster and will leave at end of season. This part was expected but rumours are after being offered around Ireland and abroad only the Dragons seem to have interest. So that is a possible destination.

 

[Chief Pete]

Thought Mike Haley to Chiefs was on the cards, maybe Munster's name thrown in to muddy the water's.....