Transfers 2015/16

ratsapprentice · Apr 12, 2015

Possibly, but that suggests that either the Academy failed to get him fit, or he failed in that regard despite their efforts... no way to know without inside info though.
If he goes on to be a very strong player for in France, I could see him coming back to England in a year or two because he's EQP and thus inherently more valuable.

Peat · Apr 12, 2015

ratsapprentice said:
Possibly, but that suggests that either the Academy failed to get him fit, or he failed in that regard despite their efforts... no way to know without inside info though.
If he goes on to be a very strong player for in France, I could see him coming back to England in a year or two because he's EQP and thus inherently more valuable.

He'll probably wait long enough over there to count as a French produced player and then, who knows?

Anyway, history says most players are better off getting out of Leicester sooner rather than later.

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Apr 12, 2015

Peat said:
He'll probably wait long enough over there to count as a French produced player and then, who knows?

Anyway, history says most players are better off getting out of Leicester sooner rather than later.

Like who?

ratsapprentice said:
Possibly, but that suggests that either the Academy failed to get him fit, or he failed in that regard despite their efforts... no way to know without inside info though.
If he goes on to be a very strong player for in France, I could see him coming back to England in a year or two because he's EQP and thus inherently more valuable.

He was in the senior squad then, and the senior players have there own responsibility to keep fit end of season he failed to do that.

Although it isn't unheard of amongst PI type players to let there fitness down.

He was linked to France last year, I think he might be eyeing up a stay at France.

Patchey · Apr 12, 2015

Tigs Man said:
Like who?

Ford... Twelvetrees...

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Apr 12, 2015

Patchey said:
Ford... Twelvetrees...

Ford who was asked to go with England whilst he was at Leicester but all parties decided it was best to bulk up before going to a tour like S.A.

36 who is playing the same standard as he is now.

Also name some more please or is 2 in how many years count as most?

Peat · Apr 12, 2015

Tigs Man said:
Like who?

He was in the senior squad then, and the senior players have there own responsibility to keep fit end of season he failed to do that.

Although it isn't unheard of amongst PI type players to let there fitness down.

He was linked to France last year, I think he might be eyeing up a stay at France.

Every single one of Leicester's academy graduates bar Youngs, Ford and Tuilagi in the last 8 years or so?

Seriously, you haven't come across the fact Leicester are a running joke across most of the internet for shorting academy players for gametime by putting them behind complete journeymen?

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Apr 12, 2015

Not saying that but how many academy players have gone on to be actual better than what they were at Leicester?

Ford, TT, Lewington, Purdy?

Neither where better than the players ahead of them at the time, Ford and Teelvetrees where getting game time but of the bench.

The fact is Leicester academy has had a poor standard of academy for a bit.

This class coming up has been our best since the days of Cole, etc

I don't think academy players should get game time for the hell of it, they have to earn it IMO no the less.

j'nuh · Apr 12, 2015

tbf, on the other hand, Cole, Castro, Ayerza, Goneva, Tuilagi, Parling, Youngs, Croft, Flood...

Also hard to fault Tigers on Ford. He left out of choice at 20. Can't really say that it was Tigers limiting him at that point...

And Twelvetrees had a golden period for about a year after leaving Tigers, but can we say he's better now than he was at Tigers?

Gloucester have worrying signs of players not living to their potential tbh. Can't remember the last player we took from an unseasoned rookie to a fully-fledged quality long-term international...

Peat · Apr 12, 2015

Whether Leicester doesn't give their academy players gametime because they're stupid, or whether it's because Leicester's academy is crap and not worth it, is slightly immaterial; either way, that means the best place for a Leicester academy player is "Another Club". Somewhere along the line, the process doesn't work. Although given how many England U20 players Leicester have produced who've received sfa in terms of gametime there, my private bet is on plenty of the former.

And j'nuh, over half that list are not Leicester academy graduates, and... actually Cole might just get under my "not in the last 8 years" restriction, but Croft certainly doesn't. Still, thanks for reminding me that Gloucester's academy is pretty crap these days as well

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Apr 12, 2015

Peat what about Bath? How many of there academy players have improved with them in the last 8 years?

Leicester academy products who broke into the 23 in the last 8 years
Cole, Youngs, Manu, Youngs, Balmain, Harrison, Smith, Twelvetrees, Ford,

TheSaffycen · Apr 12, 2015

Surprisingly Saracens must have one of the better academies at the moment. Not bad for a team that buys success.

Peat · Apr 12, 2015

Tigs Man said:
Peat what about Bath? How many of there academy players have improved with them in the last 8 years?

Less of your whatabouttery but yes, they've been pretty bobbins too.

Leicester academy products who broke into the 23 in the last 8 years
Cole, Youngs, Manu, Youngs, Balmain, Harrison, Smith, Twelvetrees, Ford,

Twelvetrees had to leave to progress his career, Harrison should have left to progress his career and arguably still should, Balmain should leave to progress his career, Youngs major was headed to abject failure until Meyer spotted he was in the wrong position and Smith probably should have left to progress his career as well - not to mention only making a breakthrough aged 23 is exactly the sort of waste of development Leicester are infamous for.

edit: This should probably all be in a different thread tbh...

ratsapprentice · Apr 12, 2015

Don't think anyone is denying Bath were a pretty ****-poor operation generally until a year or two ago!

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Apr 12, 2015

TheSaffycen said:
Surprisingly Saracens must have one of the better academies at the moment. Not bad for a team that buys success.

Quiet you.

Peat said:
Less of your whatabouttery but yes, they've been pretty bobbins too.

Twelvetrees had to leave to progress his career, Harrison should have left to progress his career and arguably still should, Balmain should leave to progress his career, Youngs major was headed to abject failure until Meyer spotted he was in the wrong position and Smith probably should have left to progress his career as well - not to mention only making a breakthrough aged 23 is exactly the sort of waste of development Leicester are infamous for.

edit: This should probably all be in a different thread tbh...

Agree about the different thread as it would prob involve a lot of back and forth.

I'm just saying you call Leicester the worse club at doing it but Bath IMO have been just as bad, and in terms of career progression surely the likes of Wuss etc would be worse then us there.

ratsapprentice said:
Don't think anyone is denying Bath were a pretty ****-poor operation generally until a year or two ago!

Well I'm getting the impression Leicester are THE worse at it in the last 8 years but as I have said before how many Bath academy products are in the senior squad ATM?

ratsapprentice · Apr 12, 2015

Tigs Man said:
Well I'm getting the impression Leicester are THE worse at it in the last 8 years but as I have said before how many Bath academy products are in the senior squad ATM?

9, with a further 8 of the current academy having played for the senior side this season.

Peat · Apr 12, 2015

Tigs Man said:
I'm just saying you call Leicester the worse club at doing it but Bath IMO have been just as bad, and in terms of career progression surely the likes of Wuss etc would be worse then us there.

Ah now, I didn't say they were the worst. I'm certainly implying they're pretty bad, but the worst, well, that would require me to actually think and not just toss off a few glib jokes about a club that has meritedly attracted a reputation as being pretty bad in this field. Plus, there's a difference between worst academy, and worst club for giving academy graduates a chance... the amount of Leicester graduates in the Premiership definitely clears you of the first.

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Apr 12, 2015

ratsapprentice said:
9, with a further 8 of the current academy having played for the senior side this season.

As in AP + Ec games not LV cup games.

Also counted 8 players in your senior side who are academy graduates.

Although is Ewels pretty much in the senior squad now?

j'nuh · Apr 12, 2015

Peat said:
And j'nuh, over half that list are not Leicester academy graduates, and... actually Cole might just get under my "not in the last 8 years" restriction, but Croft certainly doesn't. Still, thanks for reminding me that Gloucester's academy is pretty crap these days as well

Oh, that list wasn't about academy graduates, but club players who Leicester have made into quality internationals.

Most clubs can turn out a few academy players and make them into decent club players. But Leicester are better than most for taking club players to international level. Gloucester are the opposite: many come through the academy into decent club performers, but few are turned into seasoned internationals.

ratsapprentice · Apr 12, 2015

Tigs Man said:
As in AP + Ec games not LV cup games.

Also counted 8 players in your senior side who are academy graduates.

Although is Ewels pretty much in the senior squad now?

Definitely 9... There's Abendanon too, although obviously not here anymore.

8 academy lads registered for ap/ecc with 5 of them playing... Ewels is one of them.

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) · Apr 12, 2015

ratsapprentice said:
Definitely 9... There's Abendanon too, although obviously not here anymore.

8 academy lads registered for ap/ecc with 5 of them playing... Ewels is one of them.

I said was on about in the squad now.

Transfers 2015/16

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