Third Test: Australia v British and Irish Lions (06/07/13)

[munstermuffin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deg1bQt1rzQ

Truth spoken

 

[Maverick1987]

I would have picked

15 Halfpenny
14 Bowe
13 O'Driscoll
12 Roberts
11 North
10 Sexton
9 Phillips

1 Corbisero
2 T Youngs
3 A Jones
4 AW Jones
5 Parling
6 O'Brien
7 Tupuric
8 Faletau

Bench-Grant,Hibbard,Cole,Gray,Croft,B Youngs,Farrell,Tuilagi

There'll be some humble pie eaten on here if the Lions win.:lol:

thats very similar to the team I picked tbh

 

[potemkin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deg1bQt1rzQ

Truth spoken

Quality of the highest order and still laughing

 

[Ospreylian]

Ok firstly, this team isn't a "sh**" team, neccesarily, as many are saying on here. Many of the players have been given praise in the last few weeks by exactly the same people who are now labelling them as sh**. The main problems are in the balance of the squad.

Right, back three - no problem here, was always going to remain the same with the performances North and Halfpenny have consistently put in, and with Bowe making an impact (especially defensively) last week.

Centres - Davies, imo, still didn't deserve to be dropped. He didn't have a bad game last weekend, didn't do anything special but seemed to be taking on a hell of a lot in defence. Seemed like he might have been in charge of the defensive line to some degree. Gatland is a bold man to drop BOD of all people. BOD hasn't done anything wrong either, and personally I would have simply switched BOD to inside and Davies to outside centre - the reason being that BOD tends to have better distribution and eyes for an opportunity or gap in defence, and that Davies generally plays better in his preferred 13 shirt. Davies will have more of a chance to prove himself in attack in that 13 channel, but I wonder about Roberts. He seemed fairly sharp early on in the tour, but to just throw him back in at the deep end is VERY risky.

Half-backs - again, no surprise here. We all knew Philips would start, love him or hate him. Not too bothered personally as scrum-half has by far been our weakest position, and none of the 3 have shown any particularly decent form. OBVIOUSLY Sexton.

Back row - Completely perplexed by this. A Tipuric, Faletau, O'Brien back combo would have been far more balanced - Faletau for tackling, Tipuric for diving in and securing turnover ball after Faletau's work, and O'Brien for big ball carrying and a general bit of everything else. Lydiate has been good, but not brilliant. Certainly doesn't deserve a place over Tipuric. I get so ****** off with coaches seeming to ignore the current form of Tips, I just hope he can get on the field early enough and prove what an all-round talent he is, and show the coahces that they got it completely wrong from the first test selection.

2nd row - Was pretty much destined to stay the same.

Front row - The best front row we have atm imo. SO glad Corbs is back, this is huge for the Lions tbf.

The bench is standard, but I'll let the English and Irish argue it out over Murray/Youngs. Personally agree with having Murray, purely based on the pretty alright game he had coming off the bench last week.


All in all, I don't think the ommission of BOD is where this game will be won or lost at all. This match isn't going to be won on fantastic attacking rugby, let's be honest. The Lions just need to step it up when it comes to breakdown time. Too many times last weekend the ball was lost from rucks or turned over too easily. I will be banging on about the non-inclusion of Tipuric all year probably, I just can't get my head around it. We desperately needed a specialist openside replacement for Warbs, and Tipuric was obviously the right man to come in and rival Hooper. Could cost us the game. By the time he comes on, the result might already be decided.

 

[Peat]

Rhondda Rudie's team is boss. I vote that man for next Lions' coach.

Centres - Davies, imo, still didn't deserve to be dropped. He didn't have a bad game last weekend, didn't do anything special but seemed to be taking on a hell of a lot in defence. Seemed like he might have been in charge of the defensive line to some degree. Gatland is a bold man to drop BOD of all people. BOD hasn't done anything wrong either, and personally I would have simply switched BOD to inside and Davies to outside centre - the reason being that BOD tends to have better distribution and eyes for an opportunity or gap in defence, and that Davies generally plays better in his preferred 13 shirt. Davies will have more of a chance to prove himself in attack in that 13 channel, but I wonder about Roberts. He seemed fairly sharp early on in the tour, but to just throw him back in at the deep end is VERY risky.

...

All in all, I don't think the ommission of BOD is where this game will be won or lost at all. This match isn't going to be won on fantastic attacking rugby, let's be honest. The Lions just need to step it up when it comes to breakdown time. Too many times last weekend the ball was lost from rucks or turned over too easily. I will be banging on about the non-inclusion of Tipuric all year probably, I just can't get my head around it. We desperately needed a specialist openside replacement for Warbs, and Tipuric was obviously the right man to come in and rival Hooper. Could cost us the game. By the time he comes on, the result might already be decided.

For my money, BOD was the better and more influential centre defensively, and is flat out the better player at the breakdown. I would agree the game isn't going to be won by fantastic attacking rugby - well, not by us at any rate - which is why picking the guy who's been the best defensive outside centre in Europe, and a noted turnover merchant, for a few seasons now seems logical.

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

Agree that scrum half has been our weakest position along with hooker.None of the six players selected have distinguished themselves

 

[munstermuffin]

Ok firstly, this team isn't a "sh**" team, neccesarily, as many are saying on here. Many of the players have been given praise in the last few weeks by exactly the same people who are now labelling them as sh**. The main problems are in the balance of the squad.

Right, back three - no problem here, was always going to remain the same with the performances North and Halfpenny have consistently put in, and with Bowe making an impact (especially defensively) last week.

Centres - Davies, imo, still didn't deserve to be dropped. He didn't have a bad game last weekend, didn't do anything special but seemed to be taking on a hell of a lot in defence. Seemed like he might have been in charge of the defensive line to some degree. Gatland is a bold man to drop BOD of all people. BOD hasn't done anything wrong either, and personally I would have simply switched BOD to inside and Davies to outside centre - the reason being that BOD tends to have better distribution and eyes for an opportunity or gap in defence, and that Davies generally plays better in his preferred 13 shirt. Davies will have more of a chance to prove himself in attack in that 13 channel, but I wonder about Roberts. He seemed fairly sharp early on in the tour, but to just throw him back in at the deep end is VERY risky.

Half-backs - again, no surprise here. We all knew Philips would start, love him or hate him. Not too bothered personally as scrum-half has by far been our weakest position, and none of the 3 have shown any particularly decent form. OBVIOUSLY Sexton.

Back row - Completely perplexed by this. A Tipuric, Faletau, O'Brien back combo would have been far more balanced - Faletau for tackling, Tipuric for diving in and securing turnover ball after Faletau's work, and O'Brien for big ball carrying and a general bit of everything else. Lydiate has been good, but not brilliant. Certainly doesn't deserve a place over Tipuric. I get so ****** off with coaches seeming to ignore the current form of Tips, I just hope he can get on the field early enough and prove what an all-round talent he is, and show the coahces that they got it completely wrong from the first test selection.

2nd row - Was pretty much destined to stay the same.

Front row - The best front row we have atm imo. SO glad Corbs is back, this is huge for the Lions tbf.

The bench is standard, but I'll let the English and Irish argue it out over Murray/Youngs. Personally agree with having Murray, purely based on the pretty alright game he had coming off the bench last week.


All in all, I don't think the ommission of BOD is where this game will be won or lost at all. This match isn't going to be won on fantastic attacking rugby, let's be honest. The Lions just need to step it up when it comes to breakdown time. Too many times last weekend the ball was lost from rucks or turned over too easily. I will be banging on about the non-inclusion of Tipuric all year probably, I just can't get my head around it. We desperately needed a specialist openside replacement for Warbs, and Tipuric was obviously the right man to come in and rival Hooper. Could cost us the game. By the time he comes on, the result might already be decided.

Will start at top - This is A ***** team.
Davies was at fault for try last week in a big way. Also has played well in tour games but poorly (worst than BOD) in tests and on form if BOD is dropped Tuilagi was the 1 who earned shirt. Let's not forget BOD schooled Davies in Cardiff in a big way.

Regards backrow people forget Tipuric has been worst form out of all backrows on tour. Heaslip wasn't on fire but playing well (none of back rowers are on form) but still Welsh bias in selection.

Frontrow, we have 2 good scrummaging props, Hibbard a good scrummager but at that we've sacrificed our best Hooker on tour and basically said we ain't winning lineouts either. Youngs also offers more around park.

2nd row is ok but Gray or Evans weren't too far away.

In regards Phillips, he's been poor for a while now and really was just shown big time in 1st test Murray and Youngs should've been kept and well Murray knows Sexton better so if Gatland wants to pus$y up to his Welsh lads with combos why not do it across the pitch. Murray in better form too than Phillips.

Gatland basically has risked whole Lions tour at expense of picking a Welsh based team and Welsh based plan that has never had the balls to beat Aus with that plan. Even the Aus bench has us in a big way and only good thing is regardless of result Saturday I think its safe now to say Gatland brings too much BS to ever be considered for an All Blacks job.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I just saw the team and haven't read through the thread, I'll take a look at it after this.

My views on dropping BOD is that Gatland had realised that the Lions thus far had been a Lions tour and not the Gatland show so of course he has to make it that and the easiest way to do so was by dropping O'Driscoll and in doing so the leader of his defence in the backline and his most creative outside back. I wouldn't have a problem with dropping him if Davies had been playing better but he hasn't, his test performances have been riddled with handling mistakes, he let AAC stroll over the line in the last test and he's shown about as much creativity as Big Ginger 8 shows in his jokes, he's resorted to a centre partnership that has a really pathetic record against the Aussies.

The other area where he is completely wrong is the barrow. It would be fine if O'Connell was around but with that front 5 you play either SOB and Heaslip or Tipuric and Faletau.

Youngs out of the 23 is also pathetic, he was better than Phillips but still not great while Murray was great off the bench and as much as I hate to say this should have started.

This was written on a phone so sorry for spelling mistakes.

 

[Ospreylian]

For my money, BOD was the better and more influential centre defensively, and is flat out the better player at the breakdown. I would agree the game isn't going to be won by fantastic attacking rugby - well, not by us at any rate - which is why picking the guy who's been the best defensive outside centre in Europe, and a noted turnover merchant, for a few seasons now seems logical.

Btw, I never said in my post that BOD should have been dropped or that Davies was better. I think they both should have stayed tbh, just swapped positions. Don't see why BOD couldn't play at 12, if the coaches think Davies is experienced enough to. Regarding the turnovers, I do think BOD should cool down and leave more of this to others, it seems his method isn't sitting right with the officials in the SH and he's being penalised far too often. But other than that he hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped, of course.

 

[munstermuffin]

I just saw the team and haven't read through the thread, I'll take a look at it after this.

My views on dropping BOD is that Gatland had realised that the Lions thus far had been a Lions tour and not the Gatland show so of course he has to make it that and the easiest way to do so was by dropping O'Driscoll and in doing so the leader of his defence in the backline and his most creative outside back. I wouldn't have a problem with dropping him if Davies had been playing better but he hasn't, his test performances have been riddled with handling mistakes, he let AAC stroll over the line in the last test and he's shown about as much creativity as Big Ginger 8 shows in his jokes, he's resorted to a centre partnership that has a really pathetic record against the Aussies.

The other area where he is completely wrong is the barrow. It would be fine if O'Connell was around but with that front 5 you play either SOB and Heaslip or Tipuric and Faletau.

Youngs out of the 23 is also pathetic, he was better than Phillips but still not great while Murray was great off the bench and as much as I hate to say this should have started.

This was written on a phone so sorry for spelling mistakes.

As you said though Gatland had to be centre of attention and Phillips is his Welsh lad so has to keep him sweet.
Heaslip was poor and didn't deserve to tour but since he got to Aus he's been the form backrower and can I add BOD has made most tackles in tests and missed 0

 

[munstermuffin]

Btw, I never said in my post that BOD should have been dropped or that Davies was better. I think they both should have stayed tbh, just swapped positions. Don't see why BOD couldn't play at 12, if the coaches think Davies is experienced enough to. Regarding the turnovers, I do think BOD should cool down and leave more of this to others, it seems his method isn't sitting right with the officials in the SH and he's being penalised far too often. But other than that he hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped, of course.

Thing is and this is facts. Warburton is "official captain" but BOD and POC were 1's calling shots and captaining whole tour so that why BOD is talking to officals.

 

[Ospreylian]

Just heard Keith Wood talking about selection. Says that the Lions is supposed to be about the blend of 4 nations as one team. I pretty much agree here, 10 Welsh is going overboard is it not?

Question (might start to sound like Sigesige here) : Is it time to start introducing caps on the amount of players from each respective nation that the Lions coaching team are allowed to take with them?

 

[g6mcg]

Just heard Keith Wood talking about selection. Says that the Lions is supposed to be about the blend of 4 nations as one team. I pretty much agree here, 10 Welsh is going overboard is it not?

Question (might start to sound like Sigesige here) : Is it time to start introducing caps on the amount of players from each respective nation that the Lions coaching team are allowed to take with them?

No to the caps idea, and no to the 'blend of four nations' idea. The Lions are the best team from Britain and Ireland. Sure, I'd like to see some Scots involved, but not as a token gesture.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Regards backrow people forget Tipuric has been worst form out of all backrows on tour.

I agree with the rest of your post, apart from this.
I think Tipuric has been in excellent form, and would've started the first test if I were Gatland.

 

[Tadginator]

Some interesting comments coming from the lions camp
bod: "I like to be wined and dined before I get ****ed"

wg: "Roberts is an exceptional player, truly exceptional and he has one thing you haven't got"
bod: "what's that sir?"
wg: "A GREAT BIG BUSHY BEARD"


source sky sports

 

[Peat]

Btw, I never said in my post that BOD should have been dropped or that Davies was better. I think they both should have stayed tbh, just swapped positions. Don't see why BOD couldn't play at 12, if the coaches think Davies is experienced enough to. Regarding the turnovers, I do think BOD should cool down and leave more of this to others, it seems his method isn't sitting right with the officials in the SH and he's being penalised far too often. But other than that he hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped, of course.

Always a risk the ref won't like you as a jackal, he's adapted well, he should always have a nibble if its on. And - fair enough, just I thought your logic on why we'd look to BOD was wonky; for me, his leadership and defence are what I saw as indispensibles.

I also feel that neither player has really demanded retention, and given what's been going on we needed to try a crash ball option, at least one had to go. On form, fifty-fifty call, in terms of intrinsic qualities, very easy for me... but thats just me. Big wrong call? Not utterly certain. It does whiff a little of behind the scenes politics a little. The situation in terms of Welsh player in/legend out means its attracting more air time than it should... but not by much I think.

Just heard Keith Wood talking about selection. Says that the Lions is supposed to be about the blend of 4 nations as one team. I pretty much agree here, 10 Welsh is going overboard is it not?

Question (might start to sound like Sigesige here) : Is it time to start introducing caps on the amount of players from each respective nation that the Lions coaching team are allowed to take with them?

I wouldn't mind if it was 15 Welsh and their 8 pet sheep if they won. The Lions are the best of these islands, if that's the way it crumbles, then lets roll with it.

The issue arises for many is the feeling there's 10 Welsh not because theyre the best of these islands, but because they're the best known to the coach - which leaves a sour taste in the mouth for many - and that they're not actually the best shot at winning, which is the big thing really.

Even with that team, I would honestly swap an England World Cup win for a Lions win.

p.s. The feeling this is not the best shot at winning is based on more than this test, but on most of the tour.

 

[Raskolnikov]

10 Welsh players would be fine if they were clearly the best players in the squad, but they are not. There are a lot of close calls and in every one Gatland has picked his Welsh buddies.

That's what rankles most.

 

[potemkin]

10 Welsh players would be fine if they were clearly the best players in the squad, but they are not. There are a lot of close calls and in everyone Gatland has picked his Welsh buddies.

That's what rankles most.

What he said.

 

[munstermuffin]

I agree with the rest of your post, apart from this.
I think Tipuric has been in excellent form, and would've started the first test if I were Gatland.

Sorry I got blinded by SW recent form but yes he wasn't poor but neither was rest at 7 but again I think his form/confidence dipped because he knew he wasn't realistically going to oust captain. Imagine how Gatland would look if he'd to drop SW

 

[cyRil]

Just heard Keith Wood talking about selection. Says that the Lions is supposed to be about the blend of 4 nations as one team. I pretty much agree here, 10 Welsh is going overboard is it not?

Question (might start to sound like Sigesige here) : Is it time to start introducing caps on the amount of players from each respective nation that the Lions coaching team are allowed to take with them?

Only if that cap doesn't apply to England.