The worst case Lions team

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 22 2009, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How long ago was it that you told me DOC's only chance of starting a test was AWJ getting injured Tarbh? :huh: I agree with you by the way, but you have done a bit of a u turn on this one.

I want to see Hines and O'Connell start a test B)[/b]

I said he was an injury away from starting a test slight difference but that was before AWJ captained Wales in Rome and look utterly clueless in doing so.
[/b][/quote]

Oh dear one game and thats all it takes from a good player to instantly become a bad player <_<
[/b][/quote]

one game where his leadership abilities were being questioned, something that will be quite important for a Lions tour and he failed spectacularly.
[/b][/quote]

I dont think a real valid point to why he cant start next to POC in a Lions Test. The Welsh team around him was poor that day and so was the decision by the coaches to play an under strength squad. So you cant just point the finger directly at AWJ im afraid, and why are we talking leadership about a bloke who is not the captain? Seems just a feeble excuse to have a go at AWJ.
[/b][/quote]

you think that leadership is an issue that is solely down to the captain, that's nonsense, for the Lions to be successful they're going to need more than just the leadership of O'Connell to get over the line.
[/b][/quote]

No the one time AWJ was captain he was not helped by other leaders in the team, the game at Italy was not all down to AWJ as you are making out. Thats the truth. AWJ sets the standards for others to follow in the Welsh team and Id expect him to do the same for the Lions!
[/b][/quote]

well he didn't set much standard to follow in that game.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 22 2009, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How long ago was it that you told me DOC's only chance of starting a test was AWJ getting injured Tarbh? :huh: I agree with you by the way, but you have done a bit of a u turn on this one.

I want to see Hines and O'Connell start a test B)[/b]

I said he was an injury away from starting a test slight difference but that was before AWJ captained Wales in Rome and look utterly clueless in doing so.
[/b][/quote]

Oh dear one game and thats all it takes from a good player to instantly become a bad player <_<
[/b][/quote]

one game where his leadership abilities were being questioned, something that will be quite important for a Lions tour and he failed spectacularly.
[/b][/quote]

I dont think a real valid point to why he cant start next to POC in a Lions Test. The Welsh team around him was poor that day and so was the decision by the coaches to play an under strength squad. So you cant just point the finger directly at AWJ im afraid, and why are we talking leadership about a bloke who is not the captain? Seems just a feeble excuse to have a go at AWJ.
[/b][/quote]

you think that leadership is an issue that is solely down to the captain, that's nonsense, for the Lions to be successful they're going to need more than just the leadership of O'Connell to get over the line.
[/b][/quote]

No the one time AWJ was captain he was not helped by other leaders in the team, the game at Italy was not all down to AWJ as you are making out. Thats the truth. AWJ sets the standards for others to follow in the Welsh team and Id expect him to do the same for the Lions!
[/b][/quote]

well he didn't set much standard to follow in that game.
[/b][/quote]

If thats all you can say then its a poor excuse to why he should not start. They way you are talking it seems like that AWJ should not even be touring.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cymro @ Apr 22 2009, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 22 2009, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Apr 22 2009, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How long ago was it that you told me DOC's only chance of starting a test was AWJ getting injured Tarbh? :huh: I agree with you by the way, but you have done a bit of a u turn on this one.

I want to see Hines and O'Connell start a test B)[/b]

I said he was an injury away from starting a test slight difference but that was before AWJ captained Wales in Rome and look utterly clueless in doing so.
[/b][/quote]

Oh dear one game and thats all it takes from a good player to instantly become a bad player <_<
[/b][/quote]

one game where his leadership abilities were being questioned, something that will be quite important for a Lions tour and he failed spectacularly.
[/b][/quote]

I dont think a real valid point to why he cant start next to POC in a Lions Test. The Welsh team around him was poor that day and so was the decision by the coaches to play an under strength squad. So you cant just point the finger directly at AWJ im afraid, and why are we talking leadership about a bloke who is not the captain? Seems just a feeble excuse to have a go at AWJ.
[/b][/quote]

you think that leadership is an issue that is solely down to the captain, that's nonsense, for the Lions to be successful they're going to need more than just the leadership of O'Connell to get over the line.
[/b][/quote]

No the one time AWJ was captain he was not helped by other leaders in the team, the game at Italy was not all down to AWJ as you are making out. Thats the truth. AWJ sets the standards for others to follow in the Welsh team and Id expect him to do the same for the Lions!
[/b][/quote]

well he didn't set much standard to follow in that game.
[/b][/quote]

If thats all you can say then its a poor excuse to why he should not start. They way you are talking it seems like that AWJ should not even be touring.
[/b][/quote]

put words in my mouth if that suits your argument

 

[MunsterMan]

Worst possible combination of locks would be Hines and Shaw. DOC can play with anybody, he can do the dirty work and play the other role as well, which is why the media always seems to say he plays at his best when he is not playing with Paulie next to him.

 

[shazbooger]

I dont think its as clear cut as either of you guys are saying to be honest. If I was picking it now I'd go with O'Callaghan because he's played with O'Connell for so long, Hines because hes Scottish (or Australian or whatever like) and I'd like to take a look at him, or AWJ because he's the perceived favourite to be picked and we all rate him. Either way I'd be happy enough with either of em.

Hines looks an average player in a poor Scottish team, and AWJ looks a good player in a good Welsh team. However with the Lions you never know, totally different quality of player now, its the cream of NH rugby and the coach has no favourites. Whos to say Hines wont suddenly look like the best player in the squad.

Reputation means nothing (Jeremy Davidson anyone?) so it could be anyone of three at this moment.

 

[kicklikeaprop]

for me AWJ is at a massive disadvantage as regards starting the first test because like poc he is not a front of the line jumper where as both doc and hines are.I know there is alot of movement in the line these days but you still need a very good jumper for the front of the line . martin johnson being the obvious example ........ how often did you see him take a ball in the middle or back of the lineout.few and far between.Hinens and doc are very good at getting up fast and early at the front where as awj gets up higher in the middle or at the back.All that being said the two best locks are poc and awj

shaw hasn't a hope of starting any test

 

[g6mcg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kicklikeaprop @ Apr 22 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

for me AWJ is at a massive disadvantage as regards starting the first test because like poc he is not a front of the line jumper where as both doc and hines are.I know there is alot of movement in the line these days but you still need a very good jumper for the front of the line . martin johnson being the obvious example ........ how often did you see him take a ball in the middle or back of the lineout.few and far between.Hinens and doc are very good at getting up fast and early at the front where as awj gets up higher in the middle or at the back.All that being said the two best locks are poc and awj

shaw hasn't a hope of starting any test[/b]

Couldn't we have (on our ball) O'Connell at the front and then AWJ, Ferris, A.N Other backrower muddling around at the back?

Edit: For me Hines isn't a brilliant jumper, AWJ is better I would say.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Apr 23 2009, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kicklikeaprop @ Apr 22 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

for me AWJ is at a massive disadvantage as regards starting the first test because like poc he is not a front of the line jumper where as both doc and hines are.I know there is alot of movement in the line these days but you still need a very good jumper for the front of the line . martin johnson being the obvious example ........ how often did you see him take a ball in the middle or back of the lineout.few and far between.Hinens and doc are very good at getting up fast and early at the front where as awj gets up higher in the middle or at the back.All that being said the two best locks are poc and awj

shaw hasn't a hope of starting any test[/b]

Couldn't we have (on our ball) O'Connell at the front and then AWJ, Ferris, A.N Other backrower muddling around at the back?

Edit: For me Hines isn't a brilliant jumper, AWJ is better I would say.
[/b][/quote]

Well he has enough on his plate with captaincy and the rigmarole that goes with that on top of having to work on different combinations and positions in the lineout.

 

[cyRil]

The only reason Shaw is there is for team ethic, unity, bonding and having the experience of being on a winning Lions tour to SA 12 years ago.
No way he will be near the test 22.
THE END.

 

[Bumbadum]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyRil of Ospreylia @ Apr 24 2009, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The only reason Shaw is there is for team ethic, unity, bonding and having the experience of being on a winning Lions tour to SA 12 years ago.
No way he will be near the test 22.
THE END.[/b]

Imo he's there to bully people in the build up matches, show the saffers that the Lions arent there to be ****** around with.

 

[g6mcg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bumbadum @ Apr 24 2009, 08:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyRil of Ospreylia @ Apr 24 2009, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only reason Shaw is there is for team ethic, unity, bonding and having the experience of being on a winning Lions tour to SA 12 years ago.
No way he will be near the test 22.
THE END.[/b]

Imo he's there to bully people in the build up matches, show the saffers that the Lions arent there to be ****** around with.
[/b][/quote]

Him and Hines in the second row for the midweek team?

If that does happen thats at least 10 mins with 14 men

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Apr 24 2009, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bumbadum @ Apr 24 2009, 08:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyRil of Ospreylia @ Apr 24 2009, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only reason Shaw is there is for team ethic, unity, bonding and having the experience of being on a winning Lions tour to SA 12 years ago.
No way he will be near the test 22.
THE END.[/b]

Imo he's there to bully people in the build up matches, show the saffers that the Lions arent there to be ****** around with.
[/b][/quote]

Him and Hines in the second row for the midweek team?

If that does happen thats at least 10 mins with 14 men
[/b][/quote]

better there than in the tests!

 

[g6mcg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 24 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Apr 24 2009, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bumbadum @ Apr 24 2009, 08:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyRil of Ospreylia @ Apr 24 2009, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only reason Shaw is there is for team ethic, unity, bonding and having the experience of being on a winning Lions tour to SA 12 years ago.
No way he will be near the test 22.
THE END.[/b]

Imo he's there to bully people in the build up matches, show the saffers that the Lions arent there to be ****** around with.
[/b][/quote]

Him and Hines in the second row for the midweek team?

If that does happen thats at least 10 mins with 14 men
[/b][/quote]

better there than in the tests!
[/b][/quote]

This now appears a masterplan by McGeechan. Beat the **** out of the provincial sides (literally) and then play, relatively, disciplined players in the Tests.

Whats the odds on a shock call up for Grewcock in case of injury

 

[feicarsinn]

i think the general idea is that shaw and quinlan will get all of the mindless penalties out of the way in the first few games. Also to try and throw themselves in front of any punches aimed at any of the good players

 

[glosbigboy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bumbadum @ Apr 24 2009, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyRil of Ospreylia @ Apr 24 2009, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only reason Shaw is there is for team ethic, unity, bonding and having the experience of being on a winning Lions tour to SA 12 years ago.
No way he will be near the test 22.
THE END.[/b]

Imo he's there to bully people in the build up matches, show the saffers that the Lions arent there to be ****** around with.
[/b][/quote]
When has Shaw ever been a bully or enforcer? He has got great hands and is athletic for his huge physique. Past his best now and unfortunate to have been around as the best lock of all time in Johnson but still a very good player. Also he has had some dreadfull injuries like his ankle dislocation, which at the time looked career threatening.