The "Religion" thread

[shazbooger]

While listening to a variety of members breach in favour of their religion (DePreez) over my religion (O'Driscoll) in another thread, I got to thinking about how the whole thread was like arguing with a theist over the existence of their god.

Personally I continually find it amazing that otherwise intelligent men and women can really believe the nonsense in both the Koran and the Bible yet;

• France could be a predominantly Muslim nation in 20 years.
• 22% of the American population are certain that Jesus is on his way sometime in the next 50 years. Another 22% think its probable he'll turn up to bring them all to heaven. Over 60% want creationism thought in the schools as a form of Science!

As both sides continue to push themselves into the political arena, do we need to think about mving to Sweden? or are they the first to go?

 

[Gavin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Oct 20 2009, 01:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

While listening to a variety of members breach in favour of their religion (DePreez) over my religion (O'Driscoll) in another thread, I got to thinking about how the whole thread was like arguing with a theist over the existence of their god.

Personally I continually find it amazing that otherwise intelligent men and women can really believe the nonsense in both the Koran and the Bible yet;

• France could be a predominantly Muslim nation in 20 years.
• 22% of the American population are certain that Jesus is on his way sometime in the next 50 years. Another 22% think its probable he'll turn up to bring them all to heaven. Over 60% want creationism thought in the schools as a form of Science!

As both sides continue to push themselves into the political arena, do we need to think about mving to Sweden? or are they the first to go?[/b]

Amen to that brother. I am currently studying about the creation myths from the past, namely the Hebrew Bible, Greek and Babylonian creation myths. It is incredible to see the amount of similarities in all three texts. All three hint to creation coming around due to an epic struggle. The Bible has a water dragon which God must defeat in order to make the world. In the Babylonian myth the world is created from the dead body of Tiamat (another water dragon, like in the Bible) after he is killed by Marduk. The Greek creation myth the Goddess of All Things desired to make order out of Chaos, this could be another hint to warfare and an epic struggle.
Then we can go on and look at the story of the first woman, and the release of evil into the world - only the Greek and Bible myths contain this.
Religion is just taken, and adjusted, from culture to culture.

 

[Jer1cho]

In b4 the close, and will give my 2 cents:

I just get annoyed at the following:

- Religion is used as a scapegoat for anything positive. If a cancer patient is healed, it's a miracle that God made happen. If someone is brutally murdered, then it was satan. Bullshit. You can't change human nature.

- When people say God created every living thing on the planet. This is also crap imo. Did anyone ever see that video of those Ukranian Maniacs that killed that guy with hammers and screwdrivers? Those guys were NOT made. They were born, thanks to their parents having sex.

- I don't like giving thanks for my food. Especially when i buy and cook it. It feels like I'm lying.

- I also think that if there was a creator, he is long finished with this planet. Maybe that's why the universe is so big. Every galaxy he makes turns out the same, so then he makes another one, so that he can hopefully get it right the next try.

- I also don't think we were put on this earth to dedicate our lives worshipping a god, so that we can live forever. If that was the case, then why bother in the first place? Have everyone born perfectly in heaven Problem solved.

- People say we were created in God's image, but i think it's the other way around. People will do anything to get their way, and everything any of us know about religion, was put there in the first place by man.

I have no issue with anybody that is religious to the max. Just don't try to feed it to me. I like to think outside the box thank you very much.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Oct 19 2009, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

In b4 the close, and will give my 2 cents:

I just get annoyed at the following:

- Religion is used as a scapegoat for anything positive. If a cancer patient is healed, it's a miracle that God made happen. If someone is brutally murdered, then it was satan. Bullshit. You can't change human nature.[/b]

The inverse of this is that an argument against religion is that God lets bad things happen, when he should not. It is not God's business to maintain a happy world; that's our job. The Futurama episode outlined this clearly. Of course, the proportion of good people to bad people tends terribly to the latter, so it is impossible for evil to not exist.

And the Bible is nothing but a book of morals that has become less relevant as society has progressed. The best form of Christianty is the one where their text is not taken at face value. Those who take it literally seriously need a head check.

Also, the best belief ever invented in the history of the planet is pantheism, so fu *****es.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Oct 19 2009, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And the Bible is nothing but a book of morals that has become less relevant as society has progressed.[/b]

Your right in calling them nutjobs but over half of the American voting public believe that the world is about 10,000 years old. less relevant?

For a harmless book that offers moral guidance why does the church continue to preach that condoms are evil, aiding the rapid spread of HIV throughout the developing world?

Religions continue to do some serious harm.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Oct 19 2009, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Oct 19 2009, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the Bible is nothing but a book of morals that has become less relevant as society has progressed.[/b]

Your right in calling them nutjobs but over half of the American voting public believe that the world is about 10,000 years old. less relevant?

For a harmless book that offers moral guidance why does the church continue to preach that condoms are evil, aiding the rapid spread of HIV throughout the developing world?

Religions continue to do some serious harm.
[/b][/quote]
Half of the American voting public? Let's see... That works out as just over 2% of the world's population. Do you have evidence to support that figure anyway? Over half seems like a ridiculous figure...

Then again, I've read that only one tenth of the USA's population are 'non-believers' as Obama termed it, so you might be right.

And the spread of HIV and STI's is as a result of the lack of education being provided for those living in the LEDC's, not because of the influence of Christianity. What makes you think that Christianity is the prevalent religion in these countries?

 

[O'Rothlain]

Well, this isn't the first "religion" thread on this forum and it surely won't be the last.
So, what am I sick of?
Half-assed opinions of religion. You don't bother to take the time to study a religion but are more than willing to offer your criticism based on hearsay from half-assed followers of said religion.
Here's the problem with the majority of Christians today: they don't fully practice their religious faith and know very little about it. Then people like the previous posters get their ideals of Christianity from these people and make absurd statements about God and the Devil, etc...
Creationism and Evolution are both theories of how the earth was made. End of the story, there is nothing more scientific about Evolutionist Big Bang than there is Creationist...uhm...Creation. This is not me saying that Natural Selection doesn't take place, I'm merely talking about how the earth began...We don't know how it began, so regardless of what we teach, it's an unprovable theory. So, what is wrong with presenting both theories? Saying, some people believe theory A, some people believe theory B. The truth is we don't know. Then move on from the subject.
What irks me about some of your rambling is you are attacking Christianity which for better or worse has created the world you live in. Without the organization of the church, Western Civilization wouldn't be where we are today. I know you can say without religion a lot of horrible things wouldn't have happend too. The simple point is it got us to where we are, which is vastly far ahead of the rest of the un-Western world.
The basic tenants of Christianity, Islam and Judaism are teaching us how to be good people that treat eachother well, and how to build a spiritual connection with our creator. You can attack the missuse of religion all day long but don't attack the religion itself.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (O'Rothlain @ Oct 19 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well, this isn't the first "religion" thread on this forum and it surely won't be the last.
So, what am I sick of?
Half-assed opinions of religion. You don't bother to take the time to study a religion but are more than willing to offer your criticism based on hearsay from half-assed followers of said religion.
Here's the problem with the majority of Christians today: they don't fully practice their religious faith and know very little about it. Then people like the previous posters get their ideals of Christianity from these people and make absurd statements about God and the Devil, etc...[/b]

That's rather bigoted of you. How can you be so sure that these 'half-assed' followers are actually half-assed? And then, what makes you think your belief is the definite one?

Also, this is the only religion topic I've encountered in my two years of being here...

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (O'Rothlain @ Oct 19 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well, this isn't the first "religion" thread on this forum and it surely won't be the last.
So, what am I sick of?
Half-assed opinions of religion. You don't bother to take the time to study a religion but are more than willing to offer your criticism based on hearsay from half-assed followers of said religion.
Here's the problem with the majority of Christians today: they don't fully practice their religious faith and know very little about it. Then people like the previous posters get their ideals of Christianity from these people and make absurd statements about God and the Devil, etc...
Creationism and Evolution are both theories of how the earth was made. End of the story, there is nothing more scientific about Evolutionist Big Bang than there is Creationist...uhm...Creation. This is not me saying that Natural Selection doesn't take place, I'm merely talking about how the earth began...We don't know how it began, so regardless of what we teach, it's an unprovable theory. So, what is wrong with presenting both theories? Saying, some people believe theory A, some people believe theory B. The truth is we don't know. Then move on from the subject.
What irks me about some of your rambling is you are attacking Christianity which for better or worse has created the world you live in. Without the organization of the church, Western Civilization wouldn't be where we are today. I know you can say without religion a lot of horrible things wouldn't have happend too. The simple point is it got us to where we are, which is vastly far ahead of the rest of the un-Western world.
The basic tenants of Christianity, Islam and Judaism are teaching us how to be good people that treat eachother well, and how to build a spiritual connection with our creator. You can attack the missuse of religion all day long but don't attack the religion itself.[/b]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Oct 19 2009, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That's rather bigoted of you. How can you be so sure that these 'half-assed' followers are actually half-assed? And then, what makes you think your belief is the definite one?[/b]

It's not bigoted of me at all. What I'm saying is that a load of people say "I'm a Christian" yet take very little time to study Christian Text, Philosophy and truly learn what the religion teaches. Instead, they get an kindergarten view of God and Jesus and right and wrong and heaven and hell and begin waxing philosophical about how they don't understand how a good God can let bad things happen to good people. If you actually read the entirety of the Bible (let alone the hundreds of texts outside of that written either by rabbis or early church fathers) you get the real view of what is going on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Oct 19 2009, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Also, this is the only religion topic I've encountered in my two years of being here...[/b]

Then you haven't looked hard enough, because we've had several in the few years I've been around. Maybe not one of any substance for 8 months to a year, but we've had them for sure.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Again though, how do you know your interpretation of the Bible is the correct one?

I'm out of my depth here, for sure, but this is still a fair question.

 

[Steve-o]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Oct 19 2009, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Also, this is the only religion topic I've encountered in my two years of being here...[/b]

I think that's because the last one was so turbulent!

My say in this is that religion is a human phenomenon, like war. Any civilization, existing completely isolated from one another, had these 2 characteristics in various forms. That's because most wars, if not all, have religious undertones.

Perhaps religion is the evolutionary bi-product of a highly developed brain? Like our unique ability to appreciate the arts.

The brain is a powerful organ, if you truly believe it in your mind, it becomes your reality. Get a devout Christian, Muslim, Hindu & Jew together and they'll all be 100% sure their religion is 'the one'. They'll all pass a lie detector test with flying colors when questioned on their religion.

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Oct 19 2009, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Again though, how do you know your interpretation of the Bible is the correct one?

I'm out of my depth here, for sure, but this is still a fair question.[/b]

I'm not talking about Biblical Interpretation. Sure that is up for debate. How does one define sanctification? Where does justification come from? Is there a "rapture" and if so does it happen before the tribulation, during the tribulation or after the tribulation or, is the book of revelation a warning for the early church and not for the far off future? Did the spiritual gifts given to the apostles end with them, or are they still a present movement of God?
Those are questions of Biblical interpretation. What I'm talking about is ones understanding of the Bible from a factual basis. I am saying that most christians don't know what the bible says about most topics, let alone being equiped to debate the interpretation of those given ideals.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Looking at the questions you provided regarding Biblical Interpretation, I'd say I was still talking about the same thing as you.

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Oct 19 2009, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Looking at the questions you provided regarding Biblical Interpretation, I'd say I was still talking about the same thing as you.[/b]

Right, but I'm not talking about the interpretation of the Bible. I'm talking about general knowledge. I used those as examples of what I'm not talking about.
Let's take the 10 commandments, there is not much up for interpretation there. Most people can get a pretty general sense of what God and Moses were trying to get across. That's general Bible knowledge, and I'm saying the average Christian doesn't know the tenants of his or her faith.

 

[MunsterMan]

Organized Religion got us where we are today? Load of ******** man.

I find the idea of creationism being taught in the classroom silly too, even in a country where the Catholic church runs something like 90% of the schools that doesn't happen, and Darwin's theory have been taught since the 60's.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Fair enough. You'd be wise not to assume we form our knowledge on the matter from what those people say, though.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (O'Rothlain @ Oct 19 2009, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Right, but I'm not talking about the interpretation of the Bible. I'm talking about general knowledge. I used those as examples of what I'm not talking about. Let's take the 10 commandments, there is not much up for interpretation there. Most people can get a pretty general sense of what God and Moses were trying to get across.[/b]

So because some Christians couldnt be arsed reading the bible they are getting it all wrong. Does that mean the Creationists and those of the thoery of "The Stork" are alright because they take the bible literally? You have a problem with people who dont believe the Noahs arc story?

 

[dullonien]

I believe there is a place for religion in our world, not that I believe in any for of it. Whenever I am stopped in the street etc. I simply state that I'm a believer of the basic principles that are importand in every religion. I basically believe in being a nice person, and for that reason it makes me a much better person than many 'religious' people out there. Wheathor or not they understand their religion makes no difference, it's how they live their life.

Believing in a God gives many people a purpose to their lives, something I personally don't require to be happy, but I understand those who do. However I find it hard to understand how someone can believe whole heartedly in something like the Bible. I do not believe for a second that creationism should be taught in schools. I understand O'Roth stating that evolution hasn't been proven 100%, however in my option creationism has been proved to be untrue. The very existance of fossills from millions of years ago, disprove the theory. It goes against one of the most fundamental parts of the Bible, and to me invalidates the rest of it! The only explenation Christians can come up with is, 'God's testing us'. Now everyones free to believe what they want, but the very idea of teaching this is not on.

I know this is a tough subject, I hope I haven't insulted anyone.

 

[Sir Speedy]

People overlook the fact that Creationism and Evolution can co-exist.