The Reconstruction of Irish Rugby 2016

[Amiga500]

It's ok saying we should build for next RWC but 6 Nations has always been our main aim.

Which is why we'll always be bit-part players at the big gig.

Aim for the foothills, you'll likely reach the foothills and not much further.

Add in this is a big championship for Schmidt if he wants the Lions gig.

Which means what for Ireland?

And it's vital for RWC seeding points

If we cannot hold onto a Tier1 seed for the RWC in the standard of this 6N, then we don't deserve it.

 

[Peat]

I think Reddan should have been dropped for Luke McGrath anyway. I know he's got the experience and familiarity but he just doesn't seem to have the ability to make them count any more. Marmion or McGrath would have performed as well as him today and giving them the chance brings closer the day they actually pressure Murray.

Ireland don't have a wing as good as Trimble right now imo. Sure, he's not essential, but I believe those good enough should stay until they're not.

Mike McCarthy is only needed due to a crisis in the locking department - great to see Dillane there.

I'd promote Tiernan O'Halloran over either Healy or Gilroy. Also, Denis Buckley's really unlucky not to be there. Not sure why Schmidt has gone for 4 hookers and only 2 looseheads.

And I know the point of the Ireland squad isn't to reward players for doing well, or to do provinces a favour, it's there to win the next game Ireland play in, but only 4 players from the Connacht squad after their season to date really is going to hurt Connacht's ability to keep players. They won't stay if they think it's going to count against them when it comes to internationals (see Ah You's move I suspect). It's not like they don't have deserving players.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If winning this tournament means Schmidt gets the Lions I don't want to win it...

I like the squad, Reddan shouldn't be there and I hope Zebo is there strictly as a fullback apart from that I like what I see. The 4 possible debutants are the most deserving uncapped players to be brought in, along with AO'C who I can imagine is pretty ******. Delighted for JVDF, he's been an constantly improving player over the past 18 months and seems to never play a game worse than his last.

Ringrose isn't needed yet and shouldn't be used, himself, Henshaw or Olding, Marshall and McClosky are likely to be the centres come 2019 and establishing a centre pairing with no international experience isn't wise over the course of a 6nations. Needing an extra 5 kg probably didn't help his case either but we could see him later in the tournament if we're struck by injury.

The 23 for Wales will really show what Schmidt is thinking, if we avoid a Henshaw Payne centre pairing and Trimble and DK on the wings I'll be happy.

 

[Jakedood]

If winning this tournament means Schmidt gets the Lions I don't want to win it...

I like the squad, Reddan shouldn't be there and I hope Zebo is there strictly as a fullback apart from that I like what I see. The 4 possible debutants are the most deserving uncapped players to be brought in, along with AO'C who I can imagine is pretty ******. Delighted for JVDF, he's been an constantly improving player over the past 18 months and seems to never play a game worse than his last.

Ringrose isn't needed yet and shouldn't be used, himself, Henshaw or Olding, Marshall and McClosky are likely to be the centres come 2019 and establishing a centre pairing with no international experience isn't wise over the course of a 6nations. Needing an extra 5 kg probably didn't help his case either but we could see him later in the tournament if we're struck by injury.

The 23 for Wales will really show what Schmidt is thinking, if we avoid a Henshaw Payne centre pairing and Trimble and DK on the wings I'll be happy.

Stuart Olding is back playing for Ulster A tonight, be interested to see how he performs if he can stay away from the knee injury's. He's looked absolute class at outside centre before his injuries, and would be the perfect foil to a Stuart mcCloskey, even though him and Marshall are kicking ass atm!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd personally rather see him at 15, I think he has more potential than Henshaw there, but he's going to be an Irish starter if he can avoid injury. Olding and Ringrose have the potential to be in the top 5 players in their positions in world rugby, unfortunately I can't see them working as a midfield partnership.

 

[munstermuffin]

Where is Oldings best position though? Has he still the lovely feet after the knee injury too I wonder?

 

[Jakedood]

I'd personally rather see him at 15, I think he has more potential than Henshaw there, but he's going to be an Irish starter if he can avoid injury. Olding and Ringrose have the potential to be in the top 5 players in their positions in world rugby, unfortunately I can't see them working as a midfield partnership.

He's a fantastic runner but I'm unsure what his kicking game is like, it's so long since he last played I'm a little fuzzy, and I'm not sure how he does under the high ball, but I think he used to play 10 at age grade, and both him and Ringrose kicked for Ireland U20's when they played? So both should have decent boots, though i appreciate the difference between tactical and goal kicking.
Full back is intriguing though, maybe hard to get into with Piutau coming next season, but a midfield of McCloskey/Ringrose and Olding at the back... makes you wanna go to mcDonald's, cause you're just loving it

Olding normally plays at 13, but he played 10 at Ireland U20 level, and he's got fast feet and a really good eye for a gap, reads a game fantastically well, and strong enough to make his hits too. Fingers crossed he still has the natural capabilities of pre-injury!

 

[big ginger 8]

I think it's better for Ringrose to be getting gametime with Leinster at the moment. He's not going to be in the starting team at the moment so let him get the senior games he needs and take him on tour in the summer.

Healy and Gilroy have the same issues, their defence and kicking isn't up to the standard Schmidt wants and until at least one of those areas is he's not going to pick them.

I agree McGrath should be there ahead of Reddan who's very much limited to an impact sub at this stage.

Building solely for the World Cup would be foolish. It only comes around once every four years and things can go wrong so easily there's absolutely no guarantee that the time resources put into it will pay off. Anyway, having a winning culture is as good a way as building your squad as there is. The 25 year old, 23 year old and two 22 year olds brought in are also hardly driving the average age up. Picking a squad solely on it's potential is unlikely to pan out as hoped. Young players work best when they have people around them with experience who can help them out and they can maybe give some enthusiasm to. It's one of the things I've liked about Cullen this year. When he's brought in young players he's made sure they've been partnered with older heads. Be it Kelleher in a back three with Nacewa and Kirchener or Moloney in the row with McCarthy.

Anyway the squad's average age is 26, which is I believe a few years younger than the WC squad, so there's a natural transition phase that means we don't need to completely revamp everything.

EDIT: I love Olding in the centres either or is fine for me but I feel the transition to fullback may be necessary for him to actually not end up being constantly injured. I think he already has the kicking game for it but definitely needs to work a bit on his high ball game.

 

[Jakedood]

I think it's better for Ringrose to be getting gametime with Leinster at the moment. He's not going to be in the starting team at the moment so let him get the senior games he needs and take him on tour in the summer.

Healy and Gilroy have the same issues, their defence and kicking isn't up to the standard Schmidt wants and until at least one of those areas is he's not going to pick them.

I agree McGrath should be there ahead of Reddan who's very much limited to an impact sub at this stage.

Building solely for the World Cup would be foolish. It only comes around once every four years and things can go wrong so easily there's absolutely no guarantee that the time resources put into it will pay off. Anyway, having a winning culture is as good a way as building your squad as there is. The 25 year old, 23 year old and two 22 year olds brought in are also hardly driving the average age up. Picking a squad solely on it's potential is unlikely to pan out as hoped. Young players work best when they have people around them with experience who can help them out and they can maybe give some enthusiasm to. It's one of the things I've liked about Cullen this year. When he's brought in young players he's made sure they've been partnered with older heads. Be it Kelleher in a back three with Nacewa and Kirchener or Moloney in the row with McCarthy.

Anyway the squad's average age is 26, which is I believe a few years younger than the WC squad, so there's a natural transition phase that means we don't need to completely revamp everything.

EDIT: I love Olding in the centres either or is fine for me but I feel the transition to fullback may be necessary for him to actually not end up being constantly injured. I think he already has the kicking game for it but definitely needs to work a bit on his high ball game.

That's true, and it makes use of the way he can pick those gaps, and the attacking opportunities would be outrageous with those three.
In regards to Gilroy, he produces a period of form where you wonder how he isn't in an Ireland team, however he goes through period where he's barely involved in a game, or not actually making linebreaks and beating defenders and it's infuriating to watch because you can see he's got bags of potential, but it's just so up and down. His defence is questionable but he actually has very good footballing skills, it's simply he sometimes doesn't tactically know where to put the ball. He was a fantastic footballer up until 17 when he made the choice between that and rugby!

 

[Peat]

Olding's picked up two unfortunate knee injuries. I don't think that's got anything to do with him being able to play in the centres, but I'd like to see he's fully recovered before wondering how on earth to fit him into Ulster's back line, nevermind Ireland's.

As for Gilroy - I wonder if it's a mental thing as his kicking and defence look fine to me at provincial level and the step up isn't so great as to explain the way he often goes to pieces. It's not like I think the Irish wings have been outstanding at those things at international level in recent times anyway. Doesn't ruck well mind. Suspect Rory Scholes will overtake him in the Ulster wings for Ireland stakes soon enough.

 

[profitius]

Probably best for Ringrose to get more game time for Leinster with a view of making the summer tour to SA. He is still in with a chance of playing in the 6 nations because of injuries. He is still an academy player.

He will add some class to the backline. Himself and Olding will win many caps. Another name I'll throw into the mix is Cian Kelleher. A wing/fullback who has lightening fast feet and played for emerging Ireland last summer so he is on the radar of Schmidt.

 

[sixesauldman]

OHalloran a big omision in mind, RK just does not have the toe anymore and Zebo has been awful so far this season.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I think it's better for Ringrose to be getting gametime with Leinster at the moment. He's not going to be in the starting team at the moment so let him get the senior games he needs and take him on tour in the summer.

+1. He clearly has the talent to push on but needs a string of games. Better he gets a run with Leinster than hold a tackle bag for Ireland. I'd be very surprised if he didn't make the summer tour though. At that point he'll have notched up a lot of minutes for Leinster and it'll by interesting to see what Joe Schmidt can do with him with a full training camp behind him as opposed to a couple of days before the 6 Nations.

I agree McGrath should be there ahead of Reddan who's very much limited to an impact sub at this stage.

I think it's better for McGrath's development that he sticks with Leinster for now. He, like Ringrose, needs to rack up game time and develop consistency. He should make the summer tour though.

Stuart Olding is a terrific player. He has a lot of traffic in front of him at Ulster. In midfield he'll battle with Stuart McCloskey, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave and Jared Payne. I'm not sure he's big enough to play 15.

I think 10/12 cover is an option like Ian Madigan fulfills for Leinster and Ireland. With Ian Madigan heading to France and Ian Keatley out of form, Ireland lack flyhalves. Paddy Jackson has shown excellent progression over the last 12 months but Ulster lack a quality backup. Olding could be that guy initially and have the natural talent to push the incumbent longer term. Say he gets 1 out of 3 starts at 10 spelling for Jackson and 1 out of 3 starts at 12 spelling for McCloskey. It keeps all of Jackson, McCloskey and Olding fresh while giving all a bunch of games to show what they can do.

 

[Peat]

Stuart Olding is a terrific player. He has a lot of traffic in front of him at Ulster. In midfield he'll battle with Stuart McCloskey, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave and Jared Payne. I'm not sure he's big enough to play 15.

I think 10/12 cover is an option like Ian Madigan fulfills for Leinster and Ireland. With Ian Madigan heading to France and Ian Keatley out of form, Ireland lack flyhalves. Paddy Jackson has shown excellent progression over the last 12 months but Ulster lack a quality backup. Olding could be that guy initially and have the natural talent to push the incumbent longer term. Say he gets 1 out of 3 starts at 10 spelling for Jackson and 1 out of 3 starts at 12 spelling for McCloskey. It keeps all of Jackson, McCloskey and Olding fresh while giving all a bunch of games to show what they can do.

The best use of Ulster's resources over the 6N involves Olding starting at 10; if that happens, we'll see where we are with the idea. Personally I love the idea of Olding as a playmaking full-back but he'd have a bit of learning to do and would be one of the smaller ones (although no smaller than Halfpenny or Hogg).

I would be surprised if all three of Olding, Marshall and Payne were at Ulster next season mind; all three have expiring contracts and the situation in which Ulster have 4 capped centres and 2 of the best young prospects in the country to boot is simply not a long term proposition, even if injuries have prevented the situation from coming to head yet. That said, the same injury issues are always going to keep the midfield fairly flowing.

Personally I suspect McCloskey/smaller playmaker is here to stay for Ulster and that would suggest Cave becoming McCloskey's understudy and Olding competing for 13 primarily. The model fits in fairly neatly with what's going on for Ireland as well.

edit: And 13, possibly completely coincidentally, is where he's starting for the Ravens in his comeback.

 

[Tony Manx]

I see Irish stuck with a wonky thrower now Best is El Capitano!!

 

[big ginger 8]

I see Irish stuck with a wonky thrower now Best is El Capitano!!

Best lineout completion rate in the 6N two years in a row...

 

[Jakedood]

Best lineout completion rate in the 6N two years in a row...

Made a little easier by Toner and Paulie in your line out

 

[big ginger 8]

Made a little easier by Toner and Paulie in your line out

Of course and O'Mahony but a lineout is a team exercise. People always look to blame the hooker when a lineout goes wrong when it could just as easily be a missed lift, a poor jump, bad call or just a great effort by the opposition, not to mention the conditions.

Best had a bad run there in 2013 but it was mostly due to losing his main lineout options at Ulster and Ireland for an extended period and losing all confidence in his throwing. He's not the best technical thrower but is better than often made out. There's very few hookers who don't have problems with throwing at some stage.

 

[munstermuffin]

On that wasn't there an English survey that said more lineouts were lost due to the lifters mistiming or being technically wrong than the hookers throwing in international rugby in 2015.

 

[big ginger 8]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-ireland-dream-team-10772304

Wales online up to their usual schtick.

Highlights include Jenkins over McGrath and Cuthbert over...well anybody.