The power of christ compels you

[THE CHIROPRACTOR101]

wat i belive is my belief...i havnt considered...and im not worried...it is barely my belief and what i grew up on.im just greatful at what gods given us...and altho i take it for granted at times...i still believe

say wat you say

 

[St Helens RLFC]

For every bit of rubbish you post neh, I'm going to put your warning up 5%.

May I remind you that you're already on 45% and I won't hesitate to increase it.

Be understanding of other people's beliefs.

 

[Gay-Guy]

Originally posted by Ripper+Jan 20 2005, 01:57 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 20 2005, 01:57 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Serge

@Jan 20 2005, 12:53 PM
If it talks about the lords creation it may get you thinking. There are a lot of things on Earth that make it perfect for our inhabbitance which makes me think it would be too much of a coincidence for all those things to happen without a will of a creator.

The Universe was created with the Big Bang, end of story.

There was no way in hell God could've bypassed the Dinosaurs to create Adam & Eve [/b]

The Big Bang theory needs matter. No matter, no bang. Matter presupposses the existence of creation. Creation implicates a creator.

The Genesis account of creation is both a figurative and literal account of the advent of human history, or more specifically God spirit dwelling human history (there are theories amongst Christian apologetics that before Adam, there were already homosapiens but they had not had the spirit of God breathed into them....thus they were not a living soul as Adam became in Genesis). The Genesis account of creation is therefore not so concerned about the actual creation process as its focus but rather its focus is to do with humanity. When the first chapter talks about what God created on certain days the actual Hebrew word for day can also be interpreted as ages (ice age, stone age, etc). Genesis is written both as a recount and poetic text and therefore must be interpreted as such. Reading it in this light helps to avoid placing texts in the wrong contexts.

By the way.....the Bible does not deny Dinosaurs existence at all. There are a lot of books on this.

 

[Savage]

Thinking about how the universe began makes my brain hurt.


Damn i wish i went to BDO today!

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by THE CHIROPRACTOR101@Jan 21 2005, 08:57 PM
wat i belive is my belief...i havnt considered...and im not worried...it is barely my belief and what i grew up on.im just greatful at what gods given us...and altho i take it for granted at times...i still believe

say wat you say

Fair enough, but I find it difficult to comprehend that you could simply accept what is written in the bible without ever questioning anything... it just seems, no offence, a tad inhuman not to have that quriosity...
I'm not saying there is no god, because that is impossible to know, simply that I'm not willing to believe there is one based on the many questions I myself often contemplate...

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by Gay-Guy+Jan 21 2005, 10:07 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gay-Guy @ Jan 21 2005, 10:07 PM)</div>

Originally posted by Ripper@Jan 20 2005, 01:57 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Serge

@Jan 20 2005, 12:53 PM
If it talks about the lords creation it may get you thinking. There are a lot of things on Earth that make it perfect for our inhabbitance which makes me think it would be too much of a coincidence for all those things to happen without a will of a creator.

The Universe was created with the Big Bang, end of story.

There was no way in hell God could've bypassed the Dinosaurs to create Adam & Eve

The Big Bang theory needs matter. No matter, no bang. Matter presupposses the existence of creation. Creation implicates a creator.

The Genesis account of creation is both a figurative and literal account of the advent of human history, or more specifically God spirit dwelling human history (there are theories amongst Christian apologetics that before Adam, there were already homosapiens but they had not had the spirit of God breathed into them....thus they were not a living soul as Adam became in Genesis). The Genesis account of creation is therefore not so concerned about the actual creation process as its focus but rather its focus is to do with humanity. When the first chapter talks about what God created on certain days the actual Hebrew word for day can also be interpreted as ages (ice age, stone age, etc). Genesis is written both as a recount and poetic text and therefore must be interpreted as such. Reading it in this light helps to avoid placing texts in the wrong contexts.

By the way.....the Bible does not deny Dinosaurs existence at all. There are a lot of books on this. [/b]

Don't you think it's ironic though? A society like the Australian Aborigines existed in this land for what has been dated as far back as 100,000 years ago, and remained largely unchanged untill western invasion... And while we may consider ourselves of the socially structured and advancing modern world to be the ones who carry the word of god, it is us who have destroyed and poisened everything that has been given "the breath of life" in this world... tribal societies like the aboriginals never created the kind of chaos we have, so in a way one could argue that adam and eve were in fact the begining of evil in this world... if you see my point...

 

[DawieDieKabouter]

Creation Science Evangelism - Dr Kent Hovind
Files are real media, there's 7 in total starting with:
"creation science evangelism_001.rm" , and they range between 75mb and 120mb.
Maybe it's on Kazaa(rather try kazaa lite), Ares, Bearshare or some other ppsharing network. Maybe even somewhere else on the internet, can someone confirm after searching?

After you have seen it all, you will see that creation is the obvious, and evolution is nonsense.

At the moment I'm working on a christian mission station, God-willing untill the end of the year, or even longer. I've experienced enough to be a believer, heard and seen that it is the only logic explanation for everything in excistence. God has saved me from dying alot of times, each time showing me that I have to wake up and start following him, but most of the times I took everything for granted and believed that I'm in control, even though deep down I knew that God excisted. Only recently I gave in to Him, and it's the best move I've ever made in my life.
SANZAR, living for eternity is going to be great, from what God has already revealed to us all in His word, heaven will be a place without all the sorrow and bodily pain ect. we expereince here on earth, a peacefull world full of love from The Creator our God. The bad we experience on earth, is mainly from the devil, his goals is to misslead you and make your life miserable, all the while trying to convince you that his way is the best for you. If he is busy trying to convince you that all you need is this temporary life, temporary desires, temporary satisfaction, then ask yourself what it is worth in comparison to eternal satisfaction, our time here on earth ain't comparable with an atom to all earths matter...The concept of eternity is hard for our brains to grasp.

Endurance, focusing your attention on the end goal and not on whats temporarily around you...All of you, do yourself a favour and get that concept in your head, think about it and act on it.

 

[DawieDieKabouter]

Adam and Eve was the fall of man-kind. They disobeyed God and gave into temptation from the devil, that started the evil. The Lord then came to give us all an oppertunity to get back to Him. The death of Jesus Christ was a holy sacrifice for our sins, from God, "for God loved the world so much, that he gave his only son, so that each one that believes in Him, will be saved". God is Holy, so our sins needed to get payed for to return to him. Each one that hears the good news and shuns it, well, what are you going to tell God one day? I hope for your part that you will believe and change your wayes.

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Jan 22 2005, 01:59 AM
Each one that hears the good news and shuns it, well, what are you going to tell God one day? I hope for your part that you will believe and change your ways.

If there truly is a good, would it judge us for having such misgivings though? I doubt it would if it is as you describe it...
I understand your very passionate about your belief, but it all seems so man made to me, almost too simple and too perfect to be anything but a story... Our self awareness is what leads us to these beliefs in my opinion, as without a sense of our existance there is no desire for anything beyond our current existance... Which also brings into question AI. Hyppthetically if a machine can become self aware and understanding, then why is it any less entitled to claiming it has a soul than we? How could you deny it?

It's clear that you feel your beliefs to be true, I however cannot say I feel anything remotely close to that in regard to the existance of god... It just feels wrong to me, there has to be something better than this apparent 'rivalry' between god and satan. Don't you think?

 

[Ripper]

I decided to do some research because Ive got nothing else to do with my sad, inferoir God-less life (although Technically speaking im an Anglican) and I found some essay by some guy who's disputing the sayings Dr Hugh Ross...

Interesting theories this guy has...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

3. Creation Week (not days, but billions of years). Dr. Ross teaches that the Creation of the heavens and Earth took place about 4.6 billion years ago during six long, partially-overlapping periods, not 24 hour type days. "Based on scientific dating records, each of God's creation days is several hundred million years long." Dr. Ross teaches that we are currently in the 7th Day--a day that began after God made Adam and Eve, and which will not end until the beginning of the New Heavens and New Earth.[/b]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

5. No Original Paradise. Dr. Ross does not believe the Garden of Eden was free of death, pain, suffering, or degeneration--a world created in perfection. According to Dr. Ross, there was no original paradise, except in the sense that Adam walked with God, experienced less pain than we do, and experienced no sin initially. He believes that death and degeneration existed in the beginning and have continued for millions of years. He also teaches that neither the fall to sin nor the Flood resulted in significant physical changes in Nature. Dr. Ross claims that our planet has always been subject to catastrophes and violent predation. He says that long before Adam, there were supernovas and collisions with meteorites that wiped out millions of animals and caused "mass extinction." There were floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, harmful mutations, and diseases of all sorts. In other words, God used "random, wasteful, inefficiencies" to create the world into which Adam was placed.[/b]

 

[Ripper]

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Jan 22 2005, 01:50 AM
SANZAR, living for eternity is going to be great, from what God has already revealed to us all in His word, heaven will be a place without all the sorrow and bodily pain ect. we expereince here on earth, a peacefull world full of love from The Creator our God. The bad we experience on earth, is mainly from the devil, his goals is to misslead you and make your life miserable, all the while trying to convince you that his way is the best for you. If he is busy trying to convince you that all you need is this temporary life, temporary desires, temporary satisfaction, then ask yourself what it is worth in comparison to eternal satisfaction, our time here on earth ain't comparable with an atom to all earths matter...The concept of eternity is hard for our brains to grasp.

What are your views on the Asian Tsunami? Some of the more ''hardcore'' Christans are saying that the Tsunami was caused by God to punish the People of the area because of thier ''Sinful Unbelieving''

 

[captainamerica]

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Jan 22 2005, 01:59 AM
Adam and Eve was the fall of man-kind. They disobeyed God and gave into temptation from the devil, that started the evil. The Lord then came to give us all an oppertunity to get back to Him. The death of Jesus Christ was a holy sacrifice for our sins, from God, "for God loved the world so much, that he gave his only son, so that each one that believes in Him, will be saved". God is Holy, so our sins needed to get payed for to return to him. Each one that hears the good news and shuns it, well, what are you going to tell God one day? I hope for your part that you will believe and change your wayes.

Temptation and the fruit of knowledge.

This is the same temptation that leads us to talk to other people and develop relationships.

We are an inquisitive species, look at the ancient Greeks and what they achieved before god was downsized to just one supreme being who gave his only son.

We can spout rhetoric and stories until the sacred animal of India comes home -- but how close will we get to an understanding?

For the longest time I believed that people are entitled to their religious beliefs.

Well, f*** that.

Ignorance and self-importance throughout time has nullified that statement.

God is love. And that is it. God is the best in all of us, helping each other move forward until we 'die.' It's universal.

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by captainamerica+Jan 22 2005, 07:27 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (captainamerica @ Jan 22 2005, 07:27 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-DawieDieKabouter

@Jan 22 2005, 01:59 AM
Adam and Eve was the fall of man-kind. They disobeyed God and gave into temptation from the devil, that started the evil. The Lord then came to give us all an oppertunity to get back to Him. The death of Jesus Christ was a holy sacrifice for our sins, from God, "for God loved the world so much, that he gave his only son, so that each one that believes in Him, will be saved". God is Holy, so our sins needed to get payed for to return to him. Each one that hears the good news and shuns it, well, what are you going to tell God one day? I hope for your part that you will believe and change your wayes.

Temptation and the fruit of knowledge.

This is the same temptation that leads us to talk to other people and develop relationships.

We are an inquisitive species, look at the ancient Greeks and what they achieved before god was downsized to just one supreme being who gave his only son.

We can spout rhetoric and stories until the sacred animal of India comes home -- but how close will we get to an understanding?

For the longest time I believed that people are entitled to their religious beliefs.

Well, f*** that.

Ignorance and self-importance throughout time has nullified that statement.

God is love. And that is it. God is the best in all of us, helping each other move forward until we 'die.' It's universal. [/b]

I like you

Totally agree mate, god is more a metaphore for me than anything, and why does it need to be any more than that?

 

[An Tarbh]

Originally posted by Ripper+Jan 21 2005, 06:49 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 21 2005, 06:49 PM)</div>

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Jan 22 2005, 01:50 AM

SANZAR, living for eternity is going to be great, from what God has already revealed to us all in His word, heaven will be a place without all the sorrow and bodily pain ect. we expereince here on earth, a peacefull world full of love from The Creator our God. The bad we experience on earth, is mainly from the devil, his goals is to misslead you and make your life miserable, all the while trying to convince you that his way is the best for you. If he is busy trying to convince you that all you need is this temporary life, temporary desires, temporary satisfaction, then ask yourself what it is worth in comparison to eternal satisfaction, our time here on earth ain't comparable with an atom to all earths matter...The concept of eternity is hard for our brains to grasp.

What are your views on the Asian Tsunami? Some of the more ''hardcore'' Christans are saying that the Tsunami was caused by God to punish the People of the area because of thier ''Sinful Unbelieving''[/b]

If people take the word of the Bible as Gospel then when it comes to tragedies of this scale people can take solace that it was not the work of God. After Noah's Ark God realised what a mistake he had made and vowed never to interfere in the running of the world again. Although how sending his only son to earth is not interfering is beyond me.

As for Adam and Eve I find it baffling that people do actually believe that is how the human race came into being. When I was in Transition Year we were forced to go on a Retreat. Anyway during the retreat we were given the option of going to confession or just going in and talking to the priest. So I was first up, went in and started talking to the Priest and how I had problems with the whole Adam and Eve theory, the idea that the world was populated through incestous means. Of course the Priest was firm in his opinion that God placed many Adams and Eves on Earth, however this didn't answer my question and I ended up feeling so sorry for him that I didn't bother with the whole canabalisation of Christ theory. So 15 minutes later I came out and so the rest of the lads in the class went into their confession and in 15 minutes 30 lads had just taken the easy option of a quick confession.

<!--QuoteBegin-captainamerica@Jan 21 2005, 07:27 PM
God is love. And that is it. God is the best in all of us, helping each other move forward until we 'die.' It's universal.

Spot on.

 

[captainamerica]

Originally posted by Ripper@Jan 22 2005, 06:42 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

5. No Original Paradise. Dr. Ross does not believe the Garden of Eden was free of death, pain, suffering, or degeneration--a world created in perfection. According to Dr. Ross, there was no original paradise, except in the sense that Adam walked with God, experienced less pain than we do, and experienced no sin initially. He believes that death and degeneration existed in the beginning and have continued for millions of years. He also teaches that neither the fall to sin nor the Flood resulted in significant physical changes in Nature. Dr. Ross claims that our planet has always been subject to catastrophes and violent predation. He says that long before Adam, there were supernovas and collisions with meteorites that wiped out millions of animals and caused "mass extinction." There were floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, harmful mutations, and diseases of all sorts. In other words, God used "random, wasteful, inefficiencies" to create the world into which Adam was placed.

[/b][/quote]
First: Dawie, because forums are fairly impersonal and true meaning can easily be misinterpreted, my response was not an attack on you or your beliefs.

I was just voicing my disdain with certain elements of the church (catholic) I've grown up with and love.

Now, I'd like to expound on this gem of a quote that Rips found.

I find it hard to accept: In other words, God used "random, wasteful, inefficiencies" to create the world into which Adam was placed.

Every star and every planet is unstable (for the most part), regardless if it's habitable for us. This is nature (the nature of all things) and nature is perfect -- It's perfect because it changes and is always changing.

And dig this: So are we.

What is imperfect is us trying to control change.

 

[Canadian_Rugby_Guy]

I myself am a believing Catholic (although perhaps a times not as much as I could be, but just another example of the imperfection of this world and the humans who live in it as CA stated.). I find alot of people like to talk about how God let us down in things such as the Sept. 11th attacks and the tsunami but there is perhaps one thing that I read in an article once that might partly explain this, we always ask God to leave us alone in our daily lives, so how can we have the gall to expect him to come and save us when the going gets tough? Alot of ppl probably dislike the Catholic church simply because they do not like to be told they're wrong. It's ashame but it's like that. Neh raised the point that can't even see God. Well you can't an atom, you can just make theories as to it being there, and when you make an atomic bomb you can ask the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki how they felt when sometihng like that hit em. Maybe you can't see God, and maybe you don't even think the Bible is proof, but consider this, you have a soul don't you? there's definetely no scientific explanation for this spiritual part of our bodies, something that all animals and humans have. That is a testimony of God's power, at least of some spiritual being that wants us to be good folks.

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by Canadian_Rugby_Guy@Jan 22 2005, 11:03 AM
I myself am a believing Catholic (although perhaps a times not as much as I could be, but just another example of the imperfection of this world and the humans who live in it as CA stated.). I find alot of people like to talk about how God let us down in things such as the Sept. 11th attacks and the tsunami but there is perhaps one thing that I read in an article once that might partly explain this, we always ask God to leave us alone in our daily lives, so how can we have the gall to expect him to come and save us when the going gets tough? Alot of ppl probably dislike the Catholic church simply because they do not like to be told they're wrong. It's ashame but it's like that. Neh raised the point that can't even see God. Well you can't an atom, you can just make theories as to it being there, and when you make an atomic bomb you can ask the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki how they felt when sometihng like that hit em. Maybe you can't see God, and maybe you don't even think the Bible is proof, but consider this, you have a soul don't you? there's definetely no scientific explanation for this spiritual part of our bodies, something that all animals and humans have. That is a testimony of God's power, at least of some spiritual being that wants us to be good folks.

from my earlier post
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

... Our self awareness is what leads us to these beliefs in my opinion, as without a sense of our existance there is no desire for anything beyond our current existance... Which also brings into question AI. Hyppthetically if a machine can become self aware and understanding, then why is it any less entitled to claiming it has a soul than we? How could you deny it?[/b]

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by Canadian_Rugby_Guy@Jan 22 2005, 11:03 AM
. That is a testimony of God's power, at least of some spiritual being that wants us to be good folks.

But thats the bloody problem isn't? It's mostly the religious peoples of the planet who have caused all the pain and suffering in the name of their "lord"... don't you see this fundemental dilema with religion?

 

[Gay-Guy]

Sanzar......

Your opinions are very good and there is a lot of sense in what you say. I can see you are not totally closed minded towards either the existence or non-existence of some supreme being but I feel you are in fact fairly open minded to try and discover the truth......whatever that may be.

I believe if you continue to keep an open mind then you will find out what I believe all humans do have access to as a right. The meaning of life and our existence.

Good luck.

 

[captainamerica]

Originally posted by sanzar+Jan 22 2005, 12:39 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sanzar @ Jan 22 2005, 12:39 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Canadian_Rugby_Guy

@Jan 22 2005, 11:03 AM
. That is a testimony of God's power, at least of some spiritual being that wants us to be good folks.

But thats the bloody problem isn't? It's mostly the religious peoples of the planet who have caused all the pain and suffering in the name of their "lord"... don't you see this fundemental dilema with religion? [/b]

Sanz,

I think that's the fundamental problem with assholes.

Those who are happy and willing to pound their message of God's word into our skulls, with hammers if need be.

They sully the name and word of God . . . cause they're assholes.