The Lions squad for 2021 prediction

[Jakedood]

Okay I'll summarise this then...

Tipuric is a good tackler, doesnt miss many, doesnt necessarily make big reads and dominate collision, but he does wrap up well. Traditionally Gatland has favoured blitz defenses, it's been the most successful in world rugby in last 5 years or so, and as England demonstrate, dominant tackles in this system are so effective, something I know Curry excels in and also Watson, he abuses his low centre of gravity well

Defensive rucks, Tipuric again a good player, good over the ball etc, but mechanically Watson will be superior due to smaller height, and lower centre of gravity, which is crucial to the Jackal. And I think Curry has topped premiership charts before for Steals? If not, it was still his PoD when he first entered English side, so while Tipuric is highly capable over the ball, is he better than them? No

Carrying wise - Tipuric picks good lanes, and has a good ability to free the hands for an offload. But is he as likely to break a gain line/tackle as Watson? I'd argue no, in fact maybe no one in the whole squad is because you cant argue that mans stats. If you try, I'll send you the destruction he caused Wales in a 20 minute cameo a few years back

Tipuric is a good player with a variety of skills. But if you're saying his skills mean he should be there ahead of those two, when they're much rarely needed at this level, in his role, versus the ones I've outlined above, then I'd say you're likely wrong? He is a good player, very solid, I'd trust him not to make a big mistake etc, but is he as likely to affect the outcome of the game the way Curry and Watson do? I'd say no again. He's a good solid player, minimal weaknesses. But we demand more from the Lions in a highly competitive position, as we should

They are just as capable with Rugby IQ, Curry is very very intelligent in particular. Just because tipuric can pass/kick doesnt mean he's a smarter rugby player, just has the skills we associate with the person who runs the team tactically (the 9/10)

I'd also say Curry is very fast, but if you're mentioning speed, Watson is far and away the fastest of the 3

These were the teams less than a year before the WC when we beat them


Wales: 15-L Williams, 14-North, 13-J Davies, 12-Parkes, 11-Adams, 10-Anscombe, 9-G Davies; 1-Smith, 2-Owens, 3-Francis, 4-Beard, 5-Jones (captain), 6-Jenkins, 7-Tipuric, 8-Moriarty
Replacements: 16-Dee, 17-Evans, 18-Lewis, 19-Hill, 20-Wainwright, 21-T Williams, 22-Biggar, 23-Watkin.

South Africa: 15-Le Roux, 14-Nkosi, 13-Kriel, 12-De Allende, 11-Dyantyi, 10-Pollard, 9-Papier; 1-Kitshoff, 2-Marx, 3-Malherbe, 4-Snyman, 5-Mostert, 6-Kolisi (captain), 7-PS Du Toit, 8-Vermeulen.
Replacements: 16-Mbonambi, 17-T Du Toit, 18-Koch, 19-Etzebeth, 20-Louw, 21-Van Zyl, 22-Jantjies, 23-Kolbe.

Not to be snide, but Kolbe didnt start and no De Klerk makes a massive difference to that Saffa Team. Huge. Same with Etzebeth, though they obviously had other monsters available in the row

 

[ncurd]

South Africa: 9-Papier;

Massive point of difference just there. Faf de Klerk is possibly the best scrum half in the world right now and an outstanding one at that. I'd happily play a team without him far more than one with him.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Okay I'll summarise this then...

Tipuric is a good tackler, doesnt miss many, doesnt necessarily make big reads and dominate collision, but he does wrap up well. Traditionally Gatland has favoured blitz defenses, it's been the most successful in world rugby in last 5 years or so, and as England demonstrate, dominant tackles in this system are so effective, something I know Curry excels in and also Watson, he abuses his low centre of gravity well

Defensive rucks, Tipuric again a good player, good over the ball etc, but mechanically Watson will be superior due to smaller height, and lower centre of gravity, which is crucial to the Jackal. And I think Curry has topped premiership charts before for Steals? If not, it was still his PoD when he first entered English side, so while Tipuric is highly capable over the ball, is he better than them? No

Carrying wise - Tipuric picks good lanes, and has a good ability to free the hands for an offload. But is he as likely to break a gain line/tackle as Watson? I'd argue no, in fact maybe no one in the whole squad is because you cant argue that mans stats. If you try, I'll send you the destruction he caused Wales in a 20 minute cameo a few years back

Tipuric is a good player with a variety of skills. But if you're saying his skills mean he should be there ahead of those two, when they're much rarely needed at this level, in his role, versus the ones I've outlined above, then I'd say you're likely wrong? He is a good player, very solid, I'd trust him not to make a big mistake etc, but is he as likely to affect the outcome of the game the way Curry and Watson do? I'd say no again. He's a good solid player, minimal weaknesses. But we demand more from the Lions in a highly competitive position, as we should

They are just as capable with Rugby IQ, Curry is very very intelligent in particular. Just because tipuric can pass/kick doesnt mean he's a smarter rugby player, just has the skills we associate with the person who runs the team tactically (the 9/10)



Not to be snide, but Kolbe didnt start and no De Klerk makes a massive difference to that Saffa Team. Huge. Same with Etzebeth, though they obviously had other monsters available in the row

So why did England get embarrassed in the final if they're clearly so much better. Why is Wales record against them so much better if Tipuric isn't in the same league? Why has Hamish Watson not led the Scottish to beat SA recently? I mean, they're so physical and strong they should've just been eating up the yards and smashing the Boks into next week, no?

Team game and all that but you make it sound like Tipuric is this average player and I would disagree (obviously). If you go on tour, whether you're midweek or not I'd argue you're a class rugby player especially if you've made the cut in an ultra competitive position.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Massive point of difference just there. Faf de Klerk is possibly the best scrum half in the world right now and an outstanding one at that. I'd happily play a team without him far more than one with him.

Yeah I agree about Faf and I'm not saying it was exactly the same just contesting that they were this terrible, totally different team prior to the WC

 

[ncurd]

So why did England get embarrassed in the final

This might sound like madness but it didn't really have much to do with the back row getting beasted (or the forwards in general in open play), Sinckler getting injured in 2 mins, meaning Cole plays 80, Mako can't scrummage for **** so every scrum is a penalty to SA. Then England couldn't string 2 passes together leading to a lot of knock ons.

It wasn't a complicated game to work out how England lost, front row being crap and the lack of basic execution.

EDIT:No idea why I wrote lockdown

 

[Welsh Exile]

Okay I'll summarise this then...

Tipuric is a good tackler, doesnt miss many, doesnt necessarily make big reads and dominate collision, but he does wrap up well. Traditionally Gatland has favoured blitz defenses, it's been the most successful in world rugby in last 5 years or so, and as England demonstrate, dominant tackles in this system are so effective, something I know Curry excels in and also Watson, he abuses his low centre of gravity well

Defensive rucks, Tipuric again a good player, good over the ball etc, but mechanically Watson will be superior due to smaller height, and lower centre of gravity, which is crucial to the Jackal. And I think Curry has topped premiership charts before for Steals? If not, it was still his PoD when he first entered English side, so while Tipuric is highly capable over the ball, is he better than them? No

Carrying wise - Tipuric picks good lanes, and has a good ability to free the hands for an offload. But is he as likely to break a gain line/tackle as Watson? I'd argue no, in fact maybe no one in the whole squad is because you cant argue that mans stats. If you try, I'll send you the destruction he caused Wales in a 20 minute cameo a few years back

Tipuric is a good player with a variety of skills. But if you're saying his skills mean he should be there ahead of those two, when they're much rarely needed at this level, in his role, versus the ones I've outlined above, then I'd say you're likely wrong? He is a good player, very solid, I'd trust him not to make a big mistake etc, but is he as likely to affect the outcome of the game the way Curry and Watson do? I'd say no again. He's a good solid player, minimal weaknesses. But we demand more from the Lions in a highly competitive position, as we should

They are just as capable with Rugby IQ, Curry is very very intelligent in particular. Just because tipuric can pass/kick doesnt mean he's a smarter rugby player, just has the skills we associate with the person who runs the team tactically (the 9/10)

I'd also say Curry is very fast, but if you're mentioning speed, Watson is far and away the fastest of the 3



Not to be snide, but Kolbe didnt start and no De Klerk makes a massive difference to that Saffa Team. Huge. Same with Etzebeth, though they obviously had other monsters available in the row

And Etzebeth was on the bench.

As I said, I didn't say it was exactly the same but similar.

We can even compare teams in the semi final loss of you want. The one we lost by 3 points (controversially) and had no Navidi or Faletau and Francis and North going off injured as well as a few others. That team should've still won the game. That was another arm wrestles game that on another day with another ref we would've won. A bit different to how the final panned out for England

 

[Welsh Exile]

This might sound like madness but it didn't really have much to do with the back row getting beasted (or the forwards in general in open play), Sinckler getting injured in 2 mins, meaning Cole plays 80, Mako can't scrummage for **** so every scrum is a penalty to SA. Then England couldn't string 2 passes together leading to a lot of lockdowns.

It wasn't a complicated game to work out how England lost, front row being crap and the lack of basic execution.

Yeah that's fair and it is also a team game but I brought it up because some people think the gulf of class between Tipuric and players like Curry and Watson is so massive when I would say the records and stats would say otherwise.

Tipuric literally couldn't do 89 tackles in the 6N if he was "hiding on the wing" he wouldn't of got MOTM displays against SA in 2016 and amazing defensive displays in 2018 (though Ellis Jenkins was stand out in that game) against SA if he was this timid, passive player.

I'll concede Curry and Watson are slightly stronger and more powerful, better in the carry but I definitely don't think there's much in it and I definitely think Tipuric has loads more to his game which is why I think he should be on the bench to offer that alternative if, like in the final, Curry isn't really impacting the game and is getting bested.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So why did England get embarrassed in the final if they're clearly so much better. Why is Wales record against them so much better if Tipuric isn't in the same league? Why has Hamish Watson not led the Scottish to beat SA recently? I mean, they're so physical and strong they should've just been eating up the yards and smashing the Boks into next week, no?

Team game and all that but you make it sound like Tipuric is this average player and I would disagree (obviously). If you go on tour, whether you're midweek or not I'd argue you're a class rugby player especially if you've made the cut in an ultra competitive position.

The Welsh record is seemingly better because they played against us more often than England. Prior to the 2019 WC final, the last time we played England was in 2016, so there was a big gap inbetween. And in that same period we played Wales I think every year, and that was under Allister Coetzee's reign.

But what I will mention is exactly what Rassie said in the Chasing the Sun Documentary when they prepared for Wales for the Semi-final, and that is that Wales are overfocused on defence, and boring tactics, just like us, except they tend to tire out earlier, so if teams can hold on up to the end, they have a knack to crack under pressure and teams then manage to sneak wins at the death.

Massive point of difference just there. Faf de Klerk is possibly the best scrum half in the world right now and an outstanding one at that. I'd happily play a team without him far more than one with him.

Embrose Papier won't be the first choice scrumhalf for SA, he's not even first choice Scrumhalf for the Bulls.

Apart from Faf, the contenders for scrumhalf is:
Cobus Reinach
Francois Hougaard
Herschell Jantjies
Sanele Nohamba
Ivan Van Zyl

Embrose Papier, and a few others might get the nod depending on injuries and availability. But I wouldn't bet on him being the first choice starting scrumhalf for the Boks for the B&I Lions series...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

These were the teams less than a year before the WC when we beat them


Wales: 15-L Williams, 14-North, 13-J Davies, 12-Parkes, 11-Adams, 10-Anscombe, 9-G Davies; 1-Smith, 2-Owens, 3-Francis, 4-Beard, 5-Jones (captain), 6-Jenkins, 7-Tipuric, 8-Moriarty
Replacements: 16-Dee, 17-Evans, 18-Lewis, 19-Hill, 20-Wainwright, 21-T Williams, 22-Biggar, 23-Watkin.

South Africa: 15-Le Roux, 14-Nkosi, 13-Kriel, 12-De Allende, 11-Dyantyi, 10-Pollard, 9-Papier; 1-Kitshoff, 2-Marx, 3-Malherbe, 4-Snyman, 5-Mostert, 6-Kolisi (captain), 7-PS Du Toit, 8-Vermeulen.
Replacements: 16-Mbonambi, 17-T Du Toit, 18-Koch, 19-Etzebeth, 20-Louw, 21-Van Zyl, 22-Jantjies, 23-Kolbe.

England beat them on the same tour with a side containing:
Mike Brown on the wing, Cipriani at 10, Hughes at 8, Robshaw at 6 and Hepburn, Williams and Solomona on the bench

We can say that 2021 Six Nations form isn't the be all and end all but going back to 2018 with vastly different players, coaches and form doesn't really tell us much either


I don't see this conversation as a reason to be big mad over or anything, though - we've three world class openside options (four if Underhill is fully in the mix - which I think he should be), two will likely make the 23 (either as dual opensides or one on the bench). Sucks that one will miss out but there'll inevitably be injuries n that.

The Welsh record is seemingly better because they played against us more often than England. Prior to the 2019 WC final, the last time we played England was in 2016, so there was a big gap inbetween.

We toured RSA in 2018, but we definitely seem to play the Boks less than other sides (bar the All Blacks)

The 2018 tour was a goodun as well, we lost 2-1 but we blooded Curry and he played fantastically - went toe to toe with Siya (who had just been made captain) and they ended up becoming good mates, Siya gave Tom one of his two RWC Final jerseys (though I'm not sure how much Tom enjoys that memento )

Plus it produced one of my favourite rugby moments:

 

[ncurd]

TBF Tips will like play we're forgetting the Gatland Lions decisions making tree,

Is the player by far and a way the best choice? Yes - Pick Him, No - See Next
Is the player Welsh? Yes - Pick Him, No - Select the Welsh guy.

 

[Welsh Exile]

The Welsh record is seemingly better because they played against us more often than England. Prior to the 2019 WC final, the last time we played England was in 2016, so there was a big gap inbetween. And in that same period we played Wales I think every year, and that was under Allister Coetzee's reign.

But what I will mention is exactly what Rassie said in the Chasing the Sun Documentary when they prepared for Wales for the Semi-final, and that is that Wales are overfocused on defence, and boring tactics, just like us, except they tend to tire out earlier, so if teams can hold on up to the end, they have a knack to crack under pressure and teams then manage to sneak wins at the death.



Embrose Papier won't be the first choice scrumhalf for SA, he's not even first choice Scrumhalf for the Bulls.

Apart from Faf, the contenders for scrumhalf is:
Cobus Reinach
Francois Hougaard
Herschell Jantjies
Sanele Nohamba
Ivan Van Zyl

Embrose Papier, and a few others might get the nod depending on injuries and availability. But I wouldn't bet on him being the first choice starting scrumhalf for the Boks for the B&I Lions series...

I haven't seen that documentary but remember reading his comments saying how Wales are tough fuckers and don't go away like England or something like that. Was a nice compliment. But yeah, I agree and as I said earlier we were always in arm wrestles with teams just by our nature of being managed by Gats

 

[Jakedood]

So why did England get embarrassed in the final if they're clearly so much better. Why is Wales record against them so much better if Tipuric isn't in the same league? Why has Hamish Watson not led the Scottish to beat SA recently? I mean, they're so physical and strong they should've just been eating up the yards and smashing the Boks into next week, no?

Team game and all that but you make it sound like Tipuric is this average player and I would disagree (obviously). If you go on tour, whether you're midweek or not I'd argue you're a class rugby player especially if you've made the cut in an ultra competitive position.

I ddint say England are clearly better, though I think one would argue that in general the 2 best performing teams in the WC reached the final. Cant compare games quite like that, as England beat a team that Wales have historically never won against.. but not going there, the whole points of the Lions is its not about England or wales, or Scotland or Ireland. And while a couple of weaknesses may have changed that game, mostly the scrum penalties and because of that Im fairly sure Gatland wont start Mako who got royally bust up.

Tipuric is a very good international player, as I've said. He may start for the Lions, though it wouldnt be my choice, and he'll definitely go. I do have an issue with him being labelled the "attacking option" as I've tried to outline why that wouldnt be so. He's a very good player. But for me is he close to as good an OPENSIDE FLANKER as Watson and Curry at the basics of that position - well no, and could you really say he's a better ball carrier, dominant tackler or jackaller than those above? I'd be inclined to say most would agree with me
Im not trying to make this personal or even anti Welsh, I honestly dont care about welsh records, English records etc, just looking at players as objectively as possible and saying that the other 2 make more match winning contributions than he does. I joke about tipuric but He is a good player, but for example a tackle stat - Robshaw made a lot of tackles, does that mean if he made loads that he's a better player than say Curry? Not a chance. Tackling is more a product of being the right place in a system, and quite often then you'll be making a tackle once every 2/3 phases for plays off 9 and 10

You've also kinda gone off on this England v Wales thing without acknowledging many of my actual points, that I took a little bit of time to compile aha

 

[Welsh Exile]

I ddint say England are clearly better, though I think one would argue that in general the 2 best performing teams in the WC reached the final. Cant compare games quite like that, as England beat a team that Wales have historically never won against.. but not going there, the whole points of the Lions is its not about England or wales, or Scotland or Ireland. And while a couple of weaknesses may have changed that game, mostly the scrum penalties and because of that Im fairly sure Gatland wont start Mako who got royally bust up.

Tipuric is a very good international player, as I've said. He may start for the Lions, though it wouldnt be my choice, and he'll definitely go. I do have an issue with him being labelled the "attacking option" as I've tried to outline why that wouldnt be so. He's a very good player. But for me is he close to as good an OPENSIDE FLANKER as Watson and Curry at the basics of that position - well no, and could you really say he's a better ball carrier, dominant tackler or jackaller than those above? I'd be inclined to say most would agree with me
Im not trying to make this personal or even anti Welsh, I honestly dont care about welsh records, English records etc, just looking at players as objectively as possible and saying that the other 2 make more match winning contributions than he does. I joke about tipuric but He is a good player, but for example a tackle stat - Robshaw made a lot of tackles, does that mean if he made loads that he's a better player than say Curry? Not a chance. Tackling is more a product of being the right place in a system, and quite often then you'll be making a tackle once every 2/3 phases for plays off 9 and 10

You've also kinda gone off on this England v Wales thing without acknowledging many of my actual points, that I took a little bit of time to compile aha

But I'm not talking about him starting.

This whole discussion started with me posing a back 5 with no Tipuric coz I wanted Beirne in the 2nd row and made the admission that if you wanted to do that ideally, imo, you'd want 2 destructive flankers like Underhill and Watson or Curry starting. My whole point is that in this scenario, imo, you need a different bench option if plan A isn't working. If plan A isn't working and we're getting beaten up a bit and our back row say isn't getting much play on the ball it's good to have a different type of player on the bench who has different skill set. That's it.

A fair point was made about having players who've had success against the Bok pack and I said Tipuric does. And the only reason I've made the tackling stats point is to show he gets through work (he's had no other choice playing under Gats and the emphasis on defence and nullifying opposition) so he's clearly not just a player who puts through grubbers or whatever. It's only under Pivac where he starting to play in a system that plays to his strengths (though this reverted back a bit this 6N)

I honestly didn't want to go down this hole again. As has been said by me and others, no one, literally no one expects Tipuric to start any of these tests (unless we lose the first 2) so it's not about that. I just wanted to get the Beirne in the 2nd row point out there coz it's like that's not even an option at the moment which I disagree with and if anything if you were to do that I wouldn't want Tips in the starting 15.

 

[Jakedood]

So maybe thinking there'll be a squad like this ( a few bolters I think may go, but we shall see) - Not my picks, but what I think Gats will do

LH Prop - Rory Sutherland, Wyn Jones, Joe Marler (If available, if not, he will likely bring Mako)
Hooker - Jamie George, Ken Owens, Luke Cowan Dickie
TH Prop - Tadgh Furlong, Kyle Sinckler, Andrew Porter
Lock - AW Jones, Maro Itoje, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Tadgh Beirne
Back Row - Tom Curry, Hamish Watson, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau, Josh Navidi, Billy Vunipola (I know, I know, but its Gats idea of porn)
Scrum Half - Gareth Davies, Conor Murray, Ben Youngs
Out Half - Biggar, Farrell, Russell (Okay It'll be Sexton, unless a concussion worry)
Centre - Manu Tuilagi/Elliot Daly (I have a hunch), Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose, Jonathon Davies
Back 3 - Liam Williams, Stuart Hogg, Anthony Watson, LRZ, Michael Lowry (Or if he makes himself unavailable, Josh Adams)

Final Pick, Im unsure if he'll go for an extra back row, centre or back 3

So Wales - 12
England - 11
Ireland - 8
Scotland - 4

But I'm not talking about him starting.

This whole discussion started with me posing a back 5 with no Tipuric coz I wanted Beirne in the 2nd row and made the admission that if you wanted to do that ideally, imo, you'd want 2 destructive flankers like Underhill and Watson or Curry starting. My whole point is that in this scenario, imo, you need a different bench option if plan A isn't working. If plan A isn't working and we're getting beaten up a bit and our back row say isn't getting much play on the ball it's good to have a different type of player on the bench who has different skill set. That's it.

A fair point was made about having players who've had success against the Bok pack and I said Tipuric does. And the only reason I've made the tackling stats point is to show he gets through work (he's had no other choice playing under Gats and the emphasis on defence and nullifying opposition) so he's clearly not just a player who puts through grubbers or whatever. It's only under Pivac where he starting to play in a system that plays to his strengths (though this reverted back a bit this 6N)

I honestly didn't want to go down this hole again. As has been said by me and others, no one, literally no one expects Tipuric to start any of these tests (unless we lose the first 2) so it's not about that. I just wanted to get the Beirne in the 2nd row point out there coz it's like that's not even an option at the moment which I disagree with and if anything if you were to do that I wouldn't want Tips in the starting 15.

Fair enough.., I think issue for Beirne is how stacked the second row is, I wouldnt be averse to him playing there, especially as there will be injuries as well, I'm still unsure compared to some how likely he is to start but we shall see!
I do enjoy our spirited debates, they certainly get me thinking aha

 

[Welsh Exile]

So maybe thinking there'll be a squad like this ( a few bolters I think may go, but we shall see) - Not my picks, but what I think Gats will do

LH Prop - Rory Sutherland, Wyn Jones, Joe Marler (If available, if not, he will likely bring Mako)
Hooker - Jamie George, Ken Owens, Luke Cowan Dickie
TH Prop - Tadgh Furlong, Kyle Sinckler, Andrew Porter
Lock - AW Jones, Maro Itoje, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Tadgh Beirne
Back Row - Tom Curry, Hamish Watson, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau, Josh Navidi, Billy Vunipola (I know, I know, but its Gats idea of porn)
Scrum Half - Gareth Davies, Conor Murray, Ben Youngs
Out Half - Biggar, Farrell, Russell (Okay It'll be Sexton, unless a concussion worry)
Centre - Manu Tuilagi/Elliot Daly (I have a hunch), Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose, Jonathon Davies
Back 3 - Liam Williams, Stuart Hogg, Anthony Watson, LRZ, Michael Lowry (Or if he makes himself unavailable, Josh Adams)

Final Pick, Im unsure if he'll go for an extra back row, centre or back 3

I'll genuinely be gutted for Russell if he doesn't tour.

Adams is almost nailed on to start but he's 100% getting selected to tour, imo.

Shame Tualagi doesn't get a chance to play a game before the squad is announced.

 

[Jakedood]

Adams is almost nailed on to start but he's 100% getting selected to tour, imo.

Shame Tualagi doesn't get a chance to play a game before the squad is announced.

True on this re Tuilagi... May be in shadow squad for the inevitable injury
I dont think anyone is really nailed onto start atm, barr maybe Furlong, Faletau, Hogg & Henshaw

I think for the others, all cracking players that'll need to be performing well to earn spots in test side, its too competitive at wing especially. Could make case for Watson and LRZ, or Watson and Williams. Honestly cant wait for the warmup games to start and see the players chuck the ball around a bit

Really hope SA can put out a strong team as well, would hate for injuries to ruin the thing for either side

Im fairly confident in that squad that at least 27/35 are highly probable, and hard to argue overmuch with, we'll see if any bolters make it.

Plus as I said, obvs Michael Lowry will be first choice. Obviously. Duh

On a side note, a remarkable number of telegraph writers have Lawes as going, and Im highly surprised. Some chose him ahead of Watson and Beirne, which had me flummoxed. I mean he didnt even make England starter when Kruis and Itoje are around

 

[ncurd]

On a side note, a remarkable number of telegraph writers have Lawes as going, and Im highly surprised. Some chose him ahead of Watson and Beirne, which had me flummoxed. I mean he didnt even make England starter when Kruis and Itoje are around

Yeah not really understanding the Lawes love in these days there was a point but I struggle to think of the last time he made a real impact for England. Itoje obviously goes but with Launchers out only Kruis should be considered from the England lock stable. I'm unsure if he's availiable but if he is I'd certainly want a look.

 

[klitarris]

I dont think anyone is really nailed onto start atm, barr maybe Furlong, Faletau, Hogg & Henshaw

IMO the only nailed on starter at the moment is Hogg. The other three are all almost there but there is so much competition for pretty much every position. It's great!

 

[klitarris]

What do people think of Care's chances? He's apparently playing really well at the moment (I haven't watched any of it so i can't comment on that) and he's in probably the weakest position for the Lions.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

IMO the only nailed on starter at the moment is Hogg. The other three are all almost there but there is so much competition for pretty much every position. It's great!

I reckon Furlong is - he's definitely the best scrummager we have, and he's no slouch in the loose at all (puts wingers to shame with his step)
Faletau almost definitely nailed on - only player challenging would be Stander, but I reckon if he plays it'll be at 6 (even though Faletau plays 6 for his club)
Henshaw as above, but mainly because coaches love Farrell. He's very very comfortably the best option at 12, but I wouldn't be overly surprised to see him shifted to 13 for Farrell

What do people think of Care's chances? He's apparently playing really well at the moment (I haven't watched any of it so i can't comment on that) and he's in probably the weakest position for the Lions.

It'd be a surprise, just because there's a lot of emphasis placed on international performance (which obviously he's lacking over the last couple of seasons).
He's in far better form than most other options, though, so I wouldn't be against it at all, though