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The Leinster thread

  • Thread starter snoopy snoopy dog dog
  • Start date
Leonormous Boozer said:
I mistakenly said Osborne had won more European games than Munster since 2022 recently (has has now) and you rinsed me for it. So here we go:

Not true

Not true


Leinster: Hugo Keenan; Jordan Larmour, Garry Ringrose (capt), Ciará Frawley, Rob Russell; Harry Byrne, Jamison Gibson-Park; Andrew Porter, Rónan Kelleher, Michael Ala'alatoa; Ross Molony, Joe McCarthy; Max Deegan, Scott Penny, Jack Conan.

Not true

And again not true.
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Ok will start at the top.
Looking at top.
I will start since he has been a pro he has averaged 13.75 games per season. 110 games over 8 seasons. And if I break down minutes it equates to less than 10 games per season. Do you want that stat?

Ok 2nd part I will again continue to disagree. You are telling me he is in the top bracket of backrowers.
Then I will ask this. And these are facts.
1. Why can't he make a bench in 6/2 splits?
2. Why is he not even part of extended squad warming up in big games?
Like he is either a main player as you are painting or not?

3. Vs Munster - 6 players are starters. It was a rotational team.
Keenan, Larmour, Ringrose, JGP, Porter and McCarthy.
So again I state this.
For a real starter or with a sniff:

Deegan has 16 European Caps as a pro.
Has he ever been on the field for a Leinster medal won?
 
munstermuffin said:
Ok will start at the top.
Looking at top.
I will start since he has been a pro he has averaged 13.75 games per season. 110 games over 8 seasons. And if I break down minutes it equates to less than 10 games per season. Do you want that stat?
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Using his first season still in the academy and the year he was out with an acl is disingenuous and you know it.
munstermuffin said:
Ok 2nd part I will again continue to disagree. You are telling me he is in the top bracket of backrowers.
Then I will ask this. And these are facts.
1. Why can't he make a bench in 6/2 splits?
2. Why is he not even part of extended squad warming up in big games?
Like he is either a main player as you are painting or not?
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No one is telling you he is.
munstermuffin said:
3. Vs Munster - 6 players are starters. It was a rotational team.
Keenan, Larmour, Ringrose, JGP, Porter and McCarthy.
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Byrne and Frawley were starters / 23 players at the time on account of injuries to RB and Osborne, Sheehan was on the bench. It wasn't 2nd/3rd choice players.
munstermuffin said:
So again I state this.
For a real starter or with a sniff:

Deegan has 16 European Caps as a pro.
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Not bad for a guy who had an acl injury after breaking into the team. More than Will Connors and Scott Penny.
munstermuffin said:
Has he ever been on the field for a Leinster medal won?
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Yes
munstermuffin said:
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ACL injury and academy season aside. That looks like a player who has no reason to move province.
 
Leonormous Boozer said:
Using his first season still in the academy and the year he was out with an acl is disingenuous and you know it.

No one is telling you he is.

Byrne and Frawley were starters / 23 players at the time on account of injuries to RB and Osborne, Sheehan was on the bench. It wasn't 2nd/3rd choice players.


Not bad for a guy who had an acl injury after breaking into the team. More than Will Connors and Scott Penny.

Yes

ACL injury and academy season aside. That looks like a player who has no reason to move province.
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Well I broke down per season. Even minutes.
Byrne and Frawley were not starters they were in due to injuries. Christ this is clinging for it off you.

I think you will see I have not once said he should have moved. More it a gamble either way. But for a guy that had so much potential and was a RWC World Player of the Year underage that if he didn't get to being even a regular at Leinster or anywhere else it is lost potential.

Like this is just the facts. Paint it whatever way you want but it is what it is. He has never won a medal on the field for Leinster. He had so much potential that there was great hope for Ireland never mind Leinster. Will any of that ever be fulfilled. We can only judge that at the end. As well as did he make the right call? I don't have the answers and neither do you.
But it could be argued Cian Prendergast for example is closer to Irish squads now for moving. Every situation will be unique.
I'm not saying Deegan is failing more it a gamble either way. But just stating where his current status in the squad is. He is playing games but a few appearances are minutes
 
He has won a medal on the field for Leinster. Pro 14 final 2019 against Glasgow, he was on the field.

So he has won the about the same medals as any current Munster players has.

You seem to have taken the Deegan re-signing rather badly after being convinced Leinster didnt have a contract for him. He will probably never reach the level his u20 season suggest he could get to, but thats because of better players emerging at the same time and some unfortunate injury luck.

He wants to play for Leinster, fair play to him for not taking the easy way out, he saw what happened to Jordi Murphy when he went north and decided that wasnt for him.
 
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munstermuffin said:
Well I broke down per season. Even minutes.
Byrne and Frawley were not starters they were in due to injuries. Christ this is clinging for it off you.
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No it's not, it's contextualising what's happened. Your stats are including his academy season where he played 90 minutes and the season he did his acl in the first game and played 13. How is using them to calculate the mean fair at all, together they count for about a third of a season.

And Frawley and Byrne were starters at the time due to injuries. That was a strong Leinster team, not first choice but strong.

munstermuffin said:
I think you will see I have not once said he should have moved. More it a gamble either way. But for a guy that had so much potential and was a RWC World Player of the Year underage that if he didn't get to being even a regular at Leinster or anywhere else it is lost potential.
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Yep, he spent a year on the sidelines as Doris consolidated himself as an international, Conan became a test Lion and Baird broke into the Leinster starting 23. Tough route back but he's backing himself.
munstermuffin said:
Like this is just the facts. Paint it whatever way you want but it is what it is. He has never won a medal on the field for Leinster. He had so much potential that there was great hope for Ireland never mind Leinster. Will any of that ever be fulfilled. We can only judge that at the end. As well as did he make the right call? I don't have the answers and neither do you.
But it could be argued Cian Prendergast for example is closer to Irish squads now for moving. Every situation will be unique.
I'm not saying Deegan is failing more it a gamble either way. But just stating where his current status in the squad is. He is playing games but a few appearances are minutes
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I don't understand why your questioning it so much and skewing arguments to do so. Every decision has opportunity cost.

Deegan is arguably taking the toughest route consider he has said he has international aspirations but also one with far less risk than Ulster who don't have a coach for next season yet or an established 10. Put yourself in his shoes and all else the same, backing yourself at your home club where you've had success in the past, played European knockout rugby and earned a 6 nations cap makes far more sense imo. Especially when considering leaving Leinster for another province has very few success stories.
 
irisht said:
He has won a medal on the field for Leinster. Pro 14 final 2019 against Glasgow, he was on the field.

So he has won the about the same medals as any current Munster players has.

You seem to have taken the Deegan re-signing rather badly after being convinced Leinster didnt have a contract for him. He will probably never reach the level his u20 season suggest he could get to, but thats because of better players emerging at the same time and some unfortunate injury luck.

He wants to play for Leinster, fair play to him for not taking the easy way out, he saw what happened to Jordi Murphy when he went north and decided that wasnt for him.
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First of all. I asked did he I never said he didn't and yes he played a grand total of 7 minutes looking at it. And got on to bench due to injuries. Kind of backs up my point.
And again I am not taking anything bad. Onlyu I'm agreeing with what you are saying. He is a squad player and yes there is much better.
He has chose to stay at Leinster despite so many in front that are better players as you said. So you agree it is a squad filling role yes?
It makes no difference to me, he was never coming to Munster as he wasn't going to get in ahead of Coombes or Gleeson here.
And the last bit that is the question that is open to interpretation I agree. Is he not taking the easy way out or is he taking the easy way out.

People can decide their own way and that is that like anything pro sport is tough. People have different mentalities and desires to strive for different level. Each person can interpret that as they wish.
 
Leonormous Boozer said:
No it's not, it's contextualising what's happened. Your stats are including his academy season where he played 90 minutes and the season he did his acl in the first game and played 13. How is using them to calculate the mean fair at all, together they count for about a third of a season.

And Frawley and Byrne were starters at the time due to injuries. That was a strong Leinster team, not first choice but strong.


Yep, he spent a year on the sidelines as Doris consolidated himself as an international, Conan became a test Lion and Baird broke into the Leinster starting 23. Tough route back but he's backing himself.

I don't understand why your questioning it so much and skewing arguments to do so. Every decision has opportunity cost.

Deegan is arguably taking the toughest route consider he has said he has international aspirations but also one with far less risk than Ulster who don't have a coach for next season yet or an established 10. Put yourself in his shoes and all else the same, backing yourself at your home club where you've had success in the past, played European knockout rugby and earned a 6 nations cap makes far more sense imo. Especially when considering leaving Leinster for another province has very few success stories.
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Again. I broke down his stats per season for you also and also highlighted European stats and minutes too. So again if you want to try spin it whatever way then fair enough. But facts are there especially on European. He never fully cemented a spot in the 23. We can agree to disagree.
And ok Frawley and Byrne are starters if you want to spin it that way too. I give up as again it clutching a bit.

Yes he spent a year on the sidelines but in that time others broke their ceiling and moved far ahead. Doesn't matter how, when or who. That is the fact he is so far off the top.

I am not questioning much. As have said many times it a risk either way.
Agreed every decision has an opportunity cost.

But we can't speak for Deegan. But here is questions neither can answer.
1. Does Deegan really believe he can challenge and break in to the first team squad (not team) conversation or is he, as some pundits have said about a few and not my words, happy to train and just be a Leinster squad player?
2. Depending on point 1 is this the toughest route. Be a squad number filling in on rotation or is it tougher to lift a struggling team and be the standout player in a team like that and raise a team?
3. Again does he have international aspirations. If so then argubally that is a clock of the next 18months.

I have as I said not slated Deegan once. The questions above I can't answer only he can.

Now on why I question some parts. This has nothing to do with Deegan.
1. The heavily lobsided Central Contract System enables this. Not Leinsters fault and many can argue it is reward for development. Just pointing out the elephant in the room.
2. And again this can be challenged both sides. Are Leinster doing a disservice to the player if as you said a "Champions Cup Quality" player is being kept just to fill gaps.
3. Are IRFU mismanaging the system with having quality guys not playing in 1 team when another province is screaming for it.

Again that is not at Deegan but more a system as a whole approach.
Provinces now will be under pressure to develop frontrow guys across the board which I feel will lead to battles to sign lads out of school as well as 9's and 10's especially as the NIQ block comes in.

I don't have the answers but all I am saying are facts. I don't mind Deegan staying and don't say he is better off if he left or stayed. Time can only tell on all of that.
 
munstermuffin said:
Provinces now will be under pressure to develop frontrow guys across the board which I feel will lead to battles to sign lads out of school as well as 9's and 10's especially as the NIQ block comes in.
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shouldnt they be under this pressure as is? and if they arent why not?

certainly leinster have come under pressure with Niall Smyth, nothing new there with the other 3 trying to sign leinster front rows.
 
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irisht said:
shouldnt they be under this pressure as is? and if they arent why not?

certainly leinster have come under pressure with Niall Smyth, nothing new there with the other 3 trying to sign leinster front rows.
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Well some could argue they haven't been under pressure like when was the last time Leinster produced a top 9?
When was last time Munster produces a top prop?

Props in Leinster schools will be heavily targeted as they are the most physically advanced due to better S&C.
That is the system.
Munster argubally tend to produce better 9s through schools systems historically but again that is the luck of the draw.
With blockages coming in front rows nearly immediately it has forced Leinster in to positioning themselves for cover at 3 and Munster searching for solutions at 1 and argubally 2.
The mentality is Ireland are covered here for a few years more and when Sheehan and Kelliher for example are hitting a decline there is more IQ ready players.
Prop is a bit choppier waters but mentality is the same. Take Milne, McCarthy and Clarkson for example. Especially Clarkson. Will he further improve with exposure to European rugby next year. Who knows. But we will see.
But it is an Ireland first then provinces that is the approach.
 
All going well Gunne will be the answer to a top leinster homegrown 9. But yeah historically its been a weak spot.

Clarkson improved a lot this season, i'd be happy to see him exposed more next season.
 
big ginger 8 said:
Frawley's renewal confirmed.
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Good news but where do they see Frawley going forward as in of course he is a very capable utility player.
But where do Leinster see his best position. I wonder will he get a crack at 10 next year as he is probably the best ball playing 10.
Prendergast is still the one though you'd fancy out of them all.
 
irisht said:
All going well Gunne will be the answer to a top leinster homegrown 9. But yeah historically its been a weak spot.

Clarkson improved a lot this season, i'd be happy to see him exposed more next season.
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100% agree on Clarkson and I suppose he is the example of it all.
Overall 9 has been a desperate position for Leinster to develop and that isn't a dig as every province I can point out positions of weakness and strength.
It will I suppose be an area to target. Munsters is frontrow for sure.
 
McGrath had everything needed to be a top level 9 but the pass. Shame, still a stalwart for Leinster and a starting scrumhalf in a european cup winning team.
 
munstermuffin said:
Again. I broke down his stats per season for you also and also highlighted European stats and minutes too. So again if you want to try spin it whatever way then fair enough. But facts are there especially on European. He never fully cemented a spot in the 23. We can agree to disagree.
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You said that he only plays 5-10 games a year for Leinster. With the exception of his academy year and acl injury he has exceeded 800 minutes every season so you were undeniably wrong.
munstermuffin said:
And ok Frawley and Byrne are starters if you want to spin it that way too. I give up as again it clutching a bit.
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I'm not spinning it anyway. They were both constants in the 23 with HB starting while RB and Osborne were out which included this game. Leinster could not have picked anyone in their place higher up the pecking order with the exception of Henshaw. You claimed there was only 6 starting 23 guys, it was closer to about 50%.

I'm not clutching at anything.
munstermuffin said:
Yes he spent a year on the sidelines but in that time others broke their ceiling and moved far ahead. Doesn't matter how, when or who. That is the fact he is so far off the top.
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Never disagreed with this. No one has.
munstermuffin said:
I am not questioning much. As have said many times it a risk either way.
Agreed every decision has an opportunity cost.

But we can't speak for Deegan. But here is questions neither can answer.
1. Does Deegan really believe he can challenge and break in to the first team squad (not team) conversation or is he, as some pundits have said about a few and not my words, happy to train and just be a Leinster squad player?
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In an interview in November he said he does.
munstermuffin said:
2. Depending on point 1 is this the toughest route. Be a squad number filling in on rotation or is it tougher to lift a struggling team and be the standout player in a team like that and raise a team?
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Being a standout player in Ulster is not a guarantee of making Ireland squads. Being a constant in the Leinster 23 is. One has a clear route the other is murky (this has been my point the entire time).
munstermuffin said:
3. Again does he have international aspirations. If so then argubally that is a clock of the next 18months.
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Same interview he said he did. In the next 18 months Conan will be 33, I imagine he's eyeing him up.
munstermuffin said:
I have as I said not slated Deegan once. The questions above I can't answer only he can.

Now on why I question some parts. This has nothing to do with Deegan.
1. The heavily lobsided Central Contract System enables this. Not Leinsters fault and many can argue it is reward for development. Just pointing out the elephant in the room.
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Leinster have also clearly built a great culture that means players want to stay and prove themselves. This compliments the national system massively as it's exactly what it's built around.
munstermuffin said:
2. And again this can be challenged both sides. Are Leinster doing a disservice to the player if as you said a "Champions Cup Quality" player is being kept just to fill gaps.
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He's being kept to compete on two fronts. He's played every other top 4 side and in a 1v2 clash in the pro14 this year, he's not being kept for Zebre and Scarlets like.
munstermuffin said:
3. Are IRFU mismanaging the system with having quality guys not playing in 1 team when another province is screaming for it.
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Start forcing lads to move and they won't go where you want them in the current landscape. Better contracts for a guy like Deegan than Ulster can offer.
munstermuffin said:
Again that is not at Deegan but more a system as a whole approach.
Provinces now will be under pressure to develop frontrow guys across the board which I feel will lead to battles to sign lads out of school as well as 9's and 10's especially as the NIQ block comes in.
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This is exactly the point of the system no? We went about 20+ years where the only international quality 10s we produced were Humphreys, ROG, Sexton and Jackson. Leinster were desperate for NIQ 10s and it delayed Sextons emergence til he was 24 with Felipe and Holwell and Gopperth took Madigan's minutes when he should have been learning to boss a team.

This is being avoided and forcing provinces to be resourceful.
 
Leonormous Boozer said:
You said that he only plays 5-10 games a year for Leinster. With the exception of his academy year and acl has exceeded 800 minutes every season so you were undeniably wrong.

I'm not spinning it anyway. They were both constants in the 23 with HB starting while RB and Osborne were out which included this game. Leinster could not have picked anyone in their place higher up the pecking order with the exception of Henshaw. You claimed there was only 6 starting 23 guys, it was closer to about 50%.

I'm not clutching at anything.

Never disagreed with this. No one has.

In an interview in November he said he does.

Being a standout player in Ulster is not a guarantee of making Ireland squads. Being a constant in the Leinster 23 is. One has a clear route the other is murky (this has been my point the entire time).

Same interview he said he did. In the next 18 months Conan will be 33, I imagine he's eyeing him up.

Leinster have also clearly built a great culture that means players want to stay and prove themselves. This compliments the national system massively as it's exactly what it's built around.

He's being kept to compete on two fronts. He's played every other top 4 side and in a 1v2 clash in the pro14 this year, he's not being kept for Zebre and Scarlets like.

Start forcing lads to move and they won't go where you want them in the current landscape. Better contracts for a guy like Deegan than Ulster can offer.

This is exactly the point of the system no? We went about 20+ years where the only international quality 10s we produced were Humphreys, ROG, Sexton and Jackson. Leinster were desperate for NIQ 10s and it delayed Sextons emergence til he was 24 with Felipe and Holwell and Gopperth took Madigan's minutes when he should have been learning to boss a team.

This is being avoided and forcing provinces to be resourceful.
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Again so about 11 to 12 games average. Excluding injury or academy year and still no real big games. Out by 1 game or so. Happy

On Munster game at Chriatmas. If you want to believe that was a fully stocked team or whatever. I won't even argue. I think selection for big games will settle that and yeah will agree to disagree. You won't convince me something that is there as clear as day on who is starters and all that 🤣 good one though if an injury crisis is what you have to delve to looking at history of fixture. Even 50% massively supports my point. It is clutching big time there though 😂

On the interview in November. Well again that only massively shows he is not mentally backing himself but won't delve in to it as can go million ways but fact still there as we don't know. Maybe he is happy to be in a squad role and no more.
Being a stand out player for Ulster doesn't guarantee you an Irish role. But neither does sitting in the stands a Croke Park while extended team warms up. So point I made still stands none of us know but in time it will become clearer 1 way or another.

Jack Conan will be going to next RWC. By then if Deegan is not playing regularly then a Culhane or someone will be better positioned. Deegan stagnatung for next 2 years and playing in no main games won't help him. And also that is for a #20 jersey. So Doris, Connors, Van Der Flier, Penny, Baird all ahead at moment before I mention anyone else.
So will be interesting hence why I said Deegan scenario different he isn't young. Regards Ireland alot more are getting in to training camps who are younger too.

On the culture again no disagreeing from me there but again a point comes where a player sees he isn't getting to a level of playing in first team and either becomes a squad player or moves on. I suppose Deegan is different in that he never fully kicked on from potential. You'll say covid or injury or whatever and fair enough but just hasn't.

Again on Deegan of you think he so vital and not just a "dirt tracker" fair enough and again I'll agree to disagree and at moment I see him being just the new Rhys Ruddock of experienced head in games where a lot are missing. I suppose if he starts making squads for European games etc then that will change but as of now that is clearly Deegans role.

I never said IRFU should start forcing lads to move. But more the extra depth is afforded due to Central Contract buffer. That is just fact. Also it's no better or worst contract as you know. Which again goes back to effectively it is down to what each individual finds a challenge and driver.

On the system regards chasing schools players I'm not against it. But made even more important now. Take Leinster at THP or Munster at hooker. Both wanted to sign a player and now they have been pulled and told no develop a player and survive. Leinster could argue a serious injury to Furling badly effects them, we could argue Scannell and Barron are prone to injury. But effectively it now tough.
Murphy at Leinater is rumoured to be going to Connacht now as Connacht had an NIQ 9 sussed and were told no.
 
**** me this is getting so stupid. Stop moving goalposts and making stuff up to have a go at a guys character. It's ridiculous.

And before you deny it you expressly call him mentally weak below.
munstermuffin said:
Again so about 11 to 12 games average. Excluding injury or academy year and still no real big games. Out by 1 game or so. Happy
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With your own ridiculous assertion that modern day backrows should be playing 80mins every game, you're one game off and ignoring how injury prone he's been generally. Fantastic.
munstermuffin said:
On Munster game at Chriatmas. If you want to believe that was a fully stocked team or whatever. I won't even argue. I think selection for big games will settle that and yeah will agree to disagree. You won't convince me something that is there as clear as day on who is starters and all that 🤣 good one though if an injury crisis is what you have to delve to looking at history of fixture. Even 50% massively supports my point. It is clutching big time there though 😂
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Ok grand. A 2nd / 3rd string (your words) Leinster team went to Thomond and won against a strong Munster team. Munster are Zebre to Leinster. I can agree on that one considering you're committed to being stubborn.
munstermuffin said:
On the interview in November. Well again that only massively shows he is not mentally backing himself but won't delve in to it as can go million ways but fact still there as we don't know. Maybe he is happy to be in a squad role and no more.
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"I want to break into the Leinster starting team and play international rugby again" (paraphrasing) Max Deegan = Not mentally backing himself.
munstermuffin said:
Being a stand out player for Ulster doesn't guarantee you an Irish role. But neither does sitting in the stands a Croke Park while extended team warms up. So point I made still stands none of us know but in time it will become clearer 1 way or another.
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And neither are guarantees. He's backing the clearer path. Do you not see how unappealing an Ulster move is right now? They're cracker up there.
munstermuffin said:
Jack Conan will be going to next RWC. By then if Deegan is not playing regularly then a Culhane or someone will be better positioned. Deegan stagnatung for next 2 years and playing in no main games won't help him. And also that is for a #20 jersey. So Doris, Connors, Van Der Flier, Penny, Baird all ahead at moment before I mention anyone else.
So will be interesting hence why I said Deegan scenario different he isn't young. Regards Ireland alot more are getting in to training camps who are younger too.
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He's 4 years younger than Conan. A current bench player going to the World Cup at 35 is a bold call.
munstermuffin said:
On the culture again no disagreeing from me there but again a point comes where a player sees he isn't getting to a level of playing in first team and either becomes a squad player or moves on. I suppose Deegan is different in that he never fully kicked on from potential. You'll say covid or injury or whatever and fair enough but just hasn't.
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He was trending very well and two obvious set backs stopped him playing rugby for 20 months at the age of 23-24. It's blatant bad luck, such incredibly obvious bad luck. He's had as bad a run of it as Carbery if not worse.
munstermuffin said:
Again on Deegan of you think he so vital and not just a "dirt tracker" fair enough and again I'll agree to disagree and at moment I see him being just the new Rhys Ruddock of experienced head in games where a lot are missing. I suppose if he starts making squads for European games etc then that will change but as of now that is clearly Deegans role.
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6B807AC1-A4BF-46DF-9ECD-8B564F57285C.jpeg
What a terrible career it'd be to be like Rhys Ruddock. Only the same amount of trophies as Ulster, Connacht and Munster combined with a challenge cup to spare.
munstermuffin said:
I never said IRFU should start forcing lads to move. But more the extra depth is afforded due to Central Contract buffer. That is just fact. Also it's no better or worst contract as you know. Which again goes back to effectively it is down to what each individual finds a challenge and driver.
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There's plenty of better contracts than Ulster if you jump on a plane.
munstermuffin said:
On the system regards chasing schools players I'm not against it. But made even more important now. Take Leinster at THP or Munster at hooker. Both wanted to sign a player and now they have been pulled and told no develop a player and survive. Leinster could argue a serious injury to Furling badly effects them, we could argue Scannell and Barron are prone to injury. But effectively it now tough.
Murphy at Leinater is rumoured to be going to Connacht now as Connacht had an NIQ 9 sussed and were told no.
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Fine with that, certain positions are weaker than others at the moment and we need lads getting minutes.
 
Leonormous Boozer said:
**** me this is getting so stupid. Stop moving goalposts and making stuff up to have a go at a guys character. It's ridiculous.

And before you deny it you expressly call him mentally weak below.

With your own ridiculous assertion that modern day backrows should be playing 80mins every game, you're one game off and ignoring how injury prone he's been generally. Fantastic.

Ok grand. A 2nd / 3rd string (your words) Leinster team went to Thomond and won against a strong Munster team. Munster are Zebre to Leinster. I can agree on that one considering you're committed to being stubborn.

"I want to break into the Leinster starting team and play international rugby again" (paraphrasing) Max Deegan = Not mentally backing himself.

And neither are guarantees. He's backing the clearer path. Do you not see how unappealing an Ulster move is right now? They're cracker up there.

He's 4 years younger than Conan. A current bench player going to the World Cup at 35 is a bold call.

He was trending very well and two obvious set backs stopped him playing rugby for 20 months at the age of 23-24. It's blatant bad luck, such incredibly obvious bad luck. He's had as bad a run of it as Carbery if not worse.


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What a terrible career it'd be to be like Rhys Ruddock. Only the same amount of trophies as Ulster, Connacht and Munster combined with a challenge cup to spare.

There's plenty of better contracts than Ulster if you jump on a plane.

Fine with that, certain positions are weaker than others at the moment and we need lads getting minutes.
Click to expand...
But I didn't call him mentally weak. Don't know lad. More said only time will tell and each to their own.

Also I never said anything about playing 80mins. I said he isn't currently at front of selection thoughts for backrow. Plenty of evidence to back that up 🤣 you seem bothered by it.

Again I read the interview and t just that. Again not way to define anything. It just words. Again as I keep saying only time can judge.

You mention Carbery yet Leinater always say his move was a failure. So it it a bit inconsistent there from you 🤔 Either way I accepted setbacks and reasons Again just said he nowhere near first team and it upsets you.

Agree Rhys Ruddock has had great career and his role at moment is what it is. Not sure of your point here
 

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