Test Match 1: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Auckland)

[General Melchett]

Of course! Pretty much a rhetorical question. I'm not convinced Gatland had the slightest intention on playing any Scottish player in a test match, such is his obsession with physique uber alles.

Very true. The brand of rugby played by Scotland doesn't at all fit with Warrenball. The only good thing to come out of a 3-0 whitewash will be a new coaching team in four years.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't wanna be the one who says it but this is the start of the end for the lions imo . This is probably the best group of players for 20 years and they get spanked .... unfortunately the way the sport has gone there's no room for invitational teams these days ...... just like the baa baas are a joke these days

Someone mark this as NSFW, way too sexy for a family friendly forum!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Just read that Jamie George made 17 tackles. Didn't he go off quite early? If accurate then that is an incredible stat. He surely has to start for England.

 

[McTallshort]

Very true. The brand of rugby played by Scotland doesn't at all fit with Warrenball. The only good thing to come out of a 3-0 whitewash will be a new coaching team in four years.

Bitter very bitter.

Are you saying Daly, Watson and Williams are all physically imposing bosh runners?

 

[Yoshimitsu]

With time to reflect that was a pretty decent game but the enormity of what the All Blacks represent was writ large. I don't reckon Gatland got his team far wrong, but despite that, the pack got pasted (absolutely so) and there's was little or no go forward from there on in. The All Blacks defended the maul expertly thereby taking away a weapon that the Lions are comfortable using. In terms of player performances? Chapeau to Liam Williams I was shouting at my TV "Not there you ricketly leg inbred" when he started crabbing sideways only to be wanting to have his babies 30 seconds later. Elliot Daly continues to look class and the much maligned J Davies has a good un too. Farrell and Sexton was a monstrosity as many feared. The All Blacks must have been licking their chops when Teo went off. Kruis had a pretty poor one for me and most of the pack looked utterly gassed about 30 minutes in. The pace the All Blacks are comfortably playing at is simply too much for many of the NH players. Physically they had too much and their skill levels are better.............how to change that round? Difficult I'm afraid.

That said a few chances remained unconverted and the Lions have proved that if they move it fast enough they can exploit space. Hope remains, but the kind of hope you have a Christmas before you realise your wife will give you things your children made for you rather than proper presents.

 

[bushytop]

Gutted as I went into the match with much more confidence than I had before the tour, probably guilty of drinking the cool aid as it went pretty much exactly as I would have predicted a month or two ago. AB's always seem to reach a point with around 20 to go (think it was around 25 this time) where the players have found a collective solution to everything their opponents can muster... and then it all clicks. You can see the looks on the players faces change from all business to cruise control as they reach the crescendo. I say cruise control because when their opponents are beginning to blow, the Blacks just play it simply and with efficiency but still slick and at pace.

Thought Murray went relatively well, JD2 and the back three held their own or better and that was about it really, which is crazy really when I think back about how the tour has gone so far.

Thought the pack were at the most 'competitive' for around fifty before coming undone a little. Thought the back row in particular were beaten by their opposing unit but both the second and front rows definitely second best. Think laws and or Henderson will make the next 23, I have never seen Kruis play that badly but on balance probably wouldn't perform like that again? Difficult call. AWJ looked shaken to me, don't know if that knock had a lasting effect.

Think that Tips and Stander could also come in with Warbs and SOB coming out for me (prob a bit unpopular around here I know). Thought Webb looked good so, while Murray hasn't really put a foot wrong, it could be decision for the coaches that wasn't up for discussion pre test match 1.

As for NZ... bravo, you continue to amaze me.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

would like to see next week
1) Marler
2) George
3) Furlong
4) Lawes/Itoje
5) Kruis
6) POM
7) SOB
8) TF
9) Murray
10) Sexton
11) Watson
12) Te'o
13) Davies
14) Daly
15) Williams

16) Owens
17) Vunipola
18) Sinckler
19) Itoje/Henderson
20) Tips/Stander
21) Webb
22) Farrell
23) Payne

 

[General Melchett]

Of course! Pretty much a rhetorical question. I'm not convinced Gatland had the slightest intention on playing any Scottish player in a test match, such is his obsession with physique uber alles.

Very true. The brand of rugby played by Scotland doesn't at all fit with Warrenball. The only good thing to come out of a 3-0 whitewash will be a new coaching team in four years.

Bitter very bitter.

Are you saying Daly, Watson and Williams are all physically imposing bosh runners?

Bitter? LOL

No but North and 1/2P would have been picked had they been fit and in form.

 

[munstermuffin]

On reflection
1. Mako did ok. Think personally he did ok but is way better coming on.
2. George was good and battled hard
3. Furlong was good.
4. AWJ. He's a warrior but has had injuries and the intensity caught up to him today.
5. Kruis had probably his worst game in 2017
6. POM did good, lineout was good and he was effective elsewhere
7. SOB carried massively and was a threat
8. TF carried ok but was not at his best
9. Murray ddid ehat he does and had good game
10. Faz was poor
11. Daly had sparks but had errors too
12. Te'o was brilliant
13. Davies was excellent too
14. Watson was good and offered threats
15. Williams just did what he has done the past year.

16. Owen was poor but was at a stage when tide was against
17. McGrath like Owens
18. Sinckler had a good impact
19. Itoje did good in small window of chance
20. Warburton has no fitness or form and it showed
21. Webb came on and did do well working to his strengths
22. Sexton continued from Farrell in making sure 10 position was poor today
23. Halfpenny was meh on bit not really worth giving rating

 

[munstermuffin]

Next week I'd consider

McGrath George Furlong
Itoje Kruis
POM Stander SOB
Murray Sexton
Te'o Davies
Watson Williams Nowell/North

Owens
Mako
Sinckler
Lawes/Henderson
Tipuric
Webb
Farrell
Daly

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Let's see who from the midweek team play themselves in. I think AWJ has played himself out of the 23. Kruis didn't play well either, but the Krutoje partnership is ready made. Lawes or Henderson have a big chance to play themselves onto the bench. Bit more pace in the back row wouldn't go amiss either - Tipuric is the quickest, would be a bench option. Would mean dropping Warburton which I just can't see Gatland doing, so maybe changes to the back row.

But it boils down to winning the contact area- which the Lions lost big time today. So wouldn't surprise me if Gatland goes back to the Power game.

Plus the French refs are reffing the next two (can't remember in which order). So could play a part.

 

[corny]

NZ, yeah they weren't bad but better teams have produced better rugby and lost. The Lions were (and are) absolutely deferential in the first half. In the second half lots of them just went through the motions.

I find the fawning (on Sky) over the NZ'ers irritating in the extreme. Don't get me wrong its no fault of NZ'ers but we're all (players and fans alike) comfortable losing to them. Must be nice for them knowing that self doubt and equivocation are problems unique to the other side. The people in the know focus on everything physical but this is where its at. They expect to win and in any sport that normally means you do win.

From a tactical point of view. All of our opportunities were from broken field running. We didn't CREATE anything. Certainly nothing through phased rugby or pressure. Gatland and Howley are inept in this area so far from fearing a loose game we should embrace it next week as our only chance of winning. Offload, run everything back and play the high intensity rugby that i'm routinely told we 'the NZ'ers are better than us at that'.

Players? Play Itoje and make him captain. The chap doesn't accept losing and he's the main reason Saracens and England are dominant in the NH. His selection might address the shockingly passive attitude of the players at least. Wyn Jones and Faletau shouldn't play again. Faletaus tackling was abysmal and he was anonymous in the loose. It should be all Irish back row. Henderson and Marler in for Kruis and McGrath too. Sinckler and Marler starting the next test mightn't be a bad idea. Furlong and Vunipola are obviously being worked hard on scrummaging behind the scenes. They look too jaded to produce imo.

Farrell and the rest of the backs were up **** creek with no platform given them so i'd give them another go. BTW Best for George was hilarious. George was excellent in the basics something Best has never proven he can manage in a red jersey. And Best WAS good over the ball once upon a time. That part of the game left him a while ago. The joys of getting old no doubt.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Not defending Farrell or Sexton but a large part of the reason 10 was so bad was because Murray didn't vary things enough. He either box kicked or threw a long pass to the 10 playing deep. This meant if he wasn't box kicking the ABs knew they just had to rush the 10 and shut down the attack. I can't recall him threatening the fringes much at all. I still think he is the best 9 we have but the Lions are too predictable from the breakdown.

This also may not be Murray's fault, did we have any forwards running to take a short pass off him?

 

[NDC89]

Not defending Farrell or Sexton but a large part of the reason 10 was so bad was because Murray didn't vary things enough. He either box kicked or threw a long pass to the 10 playing deep. This meant if he wasn't box kicking the ABs knew they just had to rush the 10 and shut down the attack. I can't recall him threatening the fringes much at all. I still think he is the best 9 we have but the Lions are too predictable from the breakdown.

This also may not be Murray's fault, did we have any forwards running to take a short pass off him?

100% agree, would still start him next week but if it looks like we need to start to chase the game then bring Webb on. The only 9 we have that plays at any tempo and easily the most dangerous runner of the lot.

If I was the coach my my next test team would be...

1. McGrath
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Faletau
9. Murray
10. Farrell
11. Daly
12. Te'o
13. Davies
14. Watson
15. Williams

16. Owens
17. M Vunipola
18. Sinkler
19. Lawes/Henderson (Whoever is better on Tuesday)
20. Stander
21. Webb (Use him if we need to chase the game!)
22. Russell (Same as above, he won't be there though)
23. Joseph

The bench is designed to play at pace and make an impact. As I said earlier, I highly doubt it will be the team but it is what I would so.

 

[munstermuffin]

I see people mention here Murray was slow with pass etc today. And he was but that is the tactic he's been told. The bench was picked to continue that tactic too. We had no Plan B today and it hurt us too.

 

[Ground We Won]

Good result. Very happy with that start, we're historically slow out off the blocks in the first tests of the year.

But, I definitely think there's a lot of room for improvement particularly in the line out, which surprised me. I'll put it down to Taylor likely finding his feet as a starter and the conditions some what, but I'm expecting better next match.

Our tight 5 was outstanding. Retallick is such a great player, he really puts up on another level at times. We destroyed their mauls.

I thought our defense at times wasn't up to scratch. We had too many mismatches, but they will know that and it will be sorted out next week.

Izzy Dagg was outstanding, I thought most of them had a good game except perhaps Ben Smith who sadly looked like he was having issues with concussion. I'm worried about Bens career, another bad knock and he's in trouble.

The Lions impressed me at times but ultimately disappointed me. I was expecting a closer match and more of a contest in areas. I was hoping for this for the sake of the tour and my own enjoyment of sitting on the edge of my seat.. their first try was outstanding, absolutely loved it.

Our backrow killed them, which really surprised me. I was expecting the Lions to have a lot more ball and be more physical. Kaino was a beast until he came off. He's definitely got another RWC in him, what a tank. Cane made some errors but was fantastic otherwise and Read was excellent after being out for so long, credit to the fitness coaches.

For the 2nd test I'd probably slot Dagg into FB and put Naholo on the wing if Ben Smith is out.

I guess Laumape comes onto the bench since Crotty is injured too. Goodhue is our back up which is kind of risky with 2 debutantes, Fekitoa should've at least been injury cover.

The bench spot actually interests me a lot next match. Laumape or J.Barrett I think it's between. Personally I'd like to see Laumape, I think he could do some real damage to that Lions team, particularly in the 2nd half.

 

[SelimNiai]

I see people mention here Murray was slow with pass etc today. And he was but that is the tactic he's been told. The bench was picked to continue that tactic too. We had no Plan B today and it hurt us too.

A trait that Howley and Gatland have shown over the years with Wales. If plan A works, great, it works and we are successful but its the lack of tactical nous that is a concern. Te'o was effective doing what he does (I felt had he not slipped whilst stepping inside he may have got very close to scoring) but after he went off, we carried on playing as if he was still there.

I don't think the Sexton, Farrell combination works at all frankly

 

[munstermuffin]

A trait that Howley and Gatland have shown over the years with Wales. If plan A works, great, it works and we are successful but its the lack of tactical nous that is a concern. Te'o was effective doing what he does (I felt had he not slipped whilst stepping inside he may have got very close to scoring) but after he went off, we carried on playing as if he was still there.

I don't think the Sexton, Farrell combination works at all frankly

Exactly my point. Farrell can't do a Te'o role. But was asked to when he was shattered. Like you need guys that can come on to change it up. Murray and Webb is a good example. Another is like at hooker for Ireland Sean Cronin. But today it was always going to be like for like. And we thought we'd bully the All Blacks tight 5. That's a big ask any day especially with their 2nd row pairing.

 

[Mhumhain]

Well done New Zealand! I couldn't see the Lions winning this game, but I was hoping against hope they could do it with strong leadership from Peter O'Mahony I thought its a possibility. Peter getting the captaincy was a good call by Gatland but taking him off so early was a clanger!

 

[Ground We Won]

Having a chuckle at WalesOnline's write up.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-match-reports/new-zealand-30-v-15-13233074

Although the final pass from Dagg appeared slightly forward on the Taylor try

What?