Super 15 Play Off QF: Crusaders - Sharks @ Trafalgar Park, Nelson (25-06-2011)

[Amobokoboko]

Let's not go there again. NZ teams have too much quality to push them in the victim-role. Come on, Blues and Crusaders both made the play off semi's. The Reds have beaten the Bulls, Crusaders and Stormers. 3 semi-finalists of last year! The Stormers have had the most solid defence, conceding the least tries in the whole competition with 18, which is 9 less than the Crusaders, 14 less than the Reds.

The Reds and Stormers have travelled very well and deserved to be in the top 2. And the Crusaders are still right up there. Yes, they had to play the majority of their matches in Nelson, which is the home ground of Tasman, which is part of the franchise so it's not completely neutral ground or an away-game. I am getting a bit tired of people complaining how the Crusaders have played all matches as away matches this year. Come on!

If they would have played every match in Auckland, Dunedin or Wellington, then yes. But now, they've played matches still within the franchise area.

I don't see your point tbh. The trip to Nelson is 416 Km or a 5 hour drive or a 1 hour flight, Dunedin is a 360 km drive or a 4h50 drive or a 1 hour flight.

I know distance is irrelevant in the SH, but both destinations are not located on a 5 min walk. Even without a so called ' home advantage' the Crusaders have plenty of talent and skills to win games but the traveling factor does weigh hard at the end.

 

[smartcooky]

I don't see your point tbh. The trip to Nelson is 416 Km or a 5 hour drive or a 1 hour flight, Dunedin is a 360 km drive or a 4h50 drive or a 1 hour flight.

I know distance is irrelevant in the SH, but both destinations are not located on a 5 min walk. Even without a so called ' home advantage' the Crusaders have plenty of talent and skills to win games but the traveling factor does weigh hard at the end.

....and that's driving time you are quoting, but they are unlikely to drive, they would be taking a bus or flying.

The Bus Trip to Nelson is 8 hours whether you go through the Lewis or up the coast through Blenheim, and 6½ hours to Dunedin. Its not somthing you want to be doing twice a week

As for flying, its a bit deceptive to say its a one hour flight. Thats just flight time. Anyone who has done a lot of flying will tell you that even a one hour trip basically writes most of the day off by the time you pack, take the Airport Cab/Shuttle, check in baggage, fly, collect baggage, another Airport cab/shuttle, and check in to the hotel at the other end. Todd Blackadder made the comment on RadioSport last week that they basically lose two days recovery time every week.

And of course the other thing to consider is that their families are still living Christchurch.

 

[Amobokoboko]

I used google maps , every time I down south we have a stop every couple of hours to relax and enjoy the scenery. But I hope I made a decent point

 

[FlukeArtist]

Let's not go there again. NZ teams have too much quality to push them in the victim-role. Come on, Blues and Crusaders both made the play off semi's. The Reds have beaten the Bulls, Crusaders and Stormers. 3 semi-finalists of last year! The Stormers have had the most solid defence, conceding the least tries in the whole competition with 18, which is 9 less than the Crusaders, 14 less than the Reds.

The Reds and Stormers have travelled very well and deserved to be in the top 2. And the Crusaders are still right up there. Yes, they had to play the majority of their matches in Nelson, which is the home ground of Tasman, which is part of the franchise so it's not completely neutral ground or an away-game. I am getting a bit tired of people complaining how the Crusaders have played all matches as away matches this year. Come on!

If they would have played every match in Auckland, Dunedin or Wellington, then yes. But now, they've played matches still within the franchise area.

"Victim role"??? come on!!- all we're talking about here is a level playing field.
That is something that this conference format does not allow for.

Look at this comparison: Reds got to play 3 of the 4 bottom teams TWICE this year.
The Crusaders didn't get to play The Lions or the Rebels AT ALL.
Seems to me like the Reds get an advantage there.

I think if the Reds had to play in a conference that was as competitive as the NZ one, they wouldn't have finished as high as they did

Also - just to clarify my previous comments- I was saying the the 2 most deserving sides would be in the final.
I then stated it would be an all NZ final.
But thats just my pick.
I think both the Blues and the Crusaders have it in them to travel to Brisbane and Cape Town respectively, and win their games.
Hence= all NZ final.

 

[Larksea]

good game. pretty easy win in the end to the crusaders with a lot of the praise going to Kieran Read. I've been thinking lately there are some players who are sure All Black selections that have just looked like they were not playing 100%, kinda like they were holding back a little. Read is one and Kaino is another and they Both had huge games this weekend.

Sonny Bill had a good game too and turned around some average form to amke a good performance. I did see him slide off a couple of tackles, didn't come to anything but it is a bit of a worry. Some nice touches as well one was a ruck on guildfords sideline where he saw a chance of winning a ruck and bowled in and pushed the whole ruck over and exposded the ball to the crusaders. It was pretty impressive, I dont know if I've ever seen a back do that and I doubt most forwards could do it either.

Guildford was pretty quiet which isn't like him but maitland was very impressive. That try he setup was superb, massive number of sharks cover flying out to meet him on the wing and he stepped inside all of them pushed through a tackle and gave a brilliant offload.

The blunder on defense that resulted in the Sharks try looked to be from Sam Whitelock who ran through the lineout, missed a tackle and left a huge gap for the sharks to exploit, and they did very well to turn it into a 5 pointer.

carter had a very quiet game and I think most of that was because Elis gave such poor delivery under pressure, Elis is a great 9 with front foot ball and the wind at his back but he isn't great under pressure. i'd put mathewson in that camp as well.

Sharks did well to put peressure on the Rucks and Elis and it worked but the crusaders did enough with the ball they had to stay in the game. Then as the game went on the sharks big men slowed down the crusaders put thier foot down and pulled away on the scoreboard.

Good result, interestingly the crusaders should have the vast majority of their players back in deck for selection next week. As long as Read is ok they will be in a great position. Dagg is obviously out and I'm not sure about Adam Whitelock but it seems everyone else will be fit, McCaw included.

 

[Rhyer]

Crusaders and Reds have both had some tough luck this year with natural disasters. Earthquakes and a lot of floods. Please don't squabble about rugby like this when people have lost their lives and homes. Rugby is meaningless when you consider this.

 

[madflyhalf]

This man will referee SuperXV final...

[video]http://www.superxv.com/video/crusaders-vs-sharks-2011-playoff-2-hits-pieces/crusaders-vs-sharks-2011-playoff-2-hits-pieces-video_55423cae6.html[/video]

I didn't see the match, but this speaks for everything.

You say "Dangerous play" when a hooker gets untie because he's touching the other hooker's head before the engagement! You can hear Bismarck say "He is touching yet"!!!

If you are a good ref, blow your whistle, ask sorry for your mistake and reset the scrum with more space between the 2 front row.

I'm a bit shocked.
This is arrogance.

 

[mosa62]

Getting sick with crusaders !!. I hate that team. Hate all the players , hope stomers will win evn doe im frm n.z. Gooo reeds

 

[kovana]

Getting sick with crusaders !!. I hate that team. Hate all the players , hope stomers will win evn doe im frm n.z. Gooo reeds

lol.. Which NPC province you from MOSA?

 

[mosa62]

lol.. Which NPC province you from MOSA?

AUCKLAND all day bt i dnt lyk da blues lol. Reds all daayy everydayy!.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Hope at least one NZ team will play the final. good start for the RWC.

 

[Larksea]

I dont really care what happens now. I'm happy NZ has two teams in the top 4 and that's a good sign overall that NZ were the strongest confrence.

But I'd rather blues and crusaders both lost this weekend than see more all blacks go down injured. Already have Boric with his foot in a cast and out of all Rugby for at least 6 weeks. And Read has also picked up a problem with his foot. Those two guys are pretty critical to the All Blacks...

 

[smartcooky]

[video]http://www.superxv.com/video/crusaders-vs-sharks-2011-playoff-2-hits-pieces/crusaders-vs-sharks-2011-playoff-2-hits-pieces-video_55423cae6.html[/video]

I didn't see the match, but this speaks for everything.

You say "Dangerous play" when a hooker gets untie because he's touching the other hooker's head before the engagement! You can hear Bismarck say "He is touching yet"!!!

If you are a good ref, blow your whistle, ask sorry for your mistake and reset the scrum with more space between the 2 front row.

I'm a bit shocked.
This is arrogance.

This is what the SARU Referees website said about the incident.... I have highlighted in blue those parts I consider to be the most relevant.


[TEXTAREA]The referee had time to manage the situation, i.e. tell the players what he wants and get their compliance. If compliance was not forthcoming it would seem to be a technical offence by front-row player(s) prior to engagement, and the sanction for such infringements, which include foot positions, is a free kick.

Law 20.2 FRONT-ROW PLAYERS’ POSITIONS
(a) All players in a position to shove. When a scrum has formed, the body and feet of each front row player must be in a normal position to make a forward shove.
Sanction: Free Kick
(b) This means that the front row players must have both feet on the ground, with their weight firmly on at least one foot. Players must not cross their feet, although the foot of one player may cross a team-mate’s foot. Each player’s shoulders must be no lower than the hips.
Sanction: Free Kick

It seems a penalty which was completely avoidable. The problem with this sort of action by a referee is that it gives the impression that it was made in a fit of pique - and that is not a good frame of mind for refereeing.

It was not a decision that had an immediate effect on the game but it was disconcerting and adds fuel to the commonly held belief that referees know nothing about scrums - a belief usually derisively expressed.[/TEXTAREA]

So to sum up....

► He failed to manage a manageable situation

► He awarded an incorrect sanction

► He acted and sounded like he lost his cool.

► He set a poor standard for referees

It is simply not good enough at this level IMO, especially when you tak into account all the other missed offsides, missed knock-ons. Having been at the ground on the opposite side from the broadcast cameras, and having seen a full replay, I have had the benefit of seeing the full game from both sides. A LOT was missed.

One of my fellow referees on the Rugbyrefs forum made an interesting comment that he wondered what would have happened if Pro Legoete had done this.

Strung up from the nearest tree comes to mind...!!

 

[d1e1m]

Agreed Cooky, he did seem to award that penalty out of frustration, at most should've called for reset. Only thing that occurs to me is that maybe he saw their actions as more deliberate from his close inspection. I don't agree with the call but regardless, he missed a lot from both teams. Then again, neither team really looked like they got out of first gear except for the SHarks forwards in terms of counter-rucking. To be fair, I don't see too many Sharks fans complaining about the overall loss because except for that first try, they didn't really threaten until Jacobs and other subs were made late in the second half. The injury to Alberts really threw off their game plan but even then, it was difficult to see where an attacking threat was going to be generated. Sure Pietersen and Mvovo are very dangerous wide men but they weren't getting the service required from Freddie, Terblanche (as highly regarded as he is, I think he's a year or so past it) and Bosman. If the Sharks had a better backline they would have threatened but in the end it was a case of the more complete and more clinical team inthe Crusaders getting the scrappy win.

 

[Bataz]

When and what time is the final?

 

[Amobokoboko]

Final July 9 time tbc as the finalist are not known yet