Squads for the Internationals

[Larksea]

heh yeah, one good game doesn't make an all black selection

He's good but he's clearly behind Cruden & Barrett and Barrett has the added bonus that he can play in the back 3 if needed.

I don't understand why people are still hating on about SBW. He's clearly a world class player and the scary thing is he seems to still be getting better all the time, this year he's been more conservative with his offloads and taking better options. Thriving between Cruden and Kahui. Best 12 in NZ right now arguably the best 12 in super rugby - his stats certainly suggest that.

Sure there are no guarantees that he will be around next year but that's the reality of professional sport and a guy who generates a lot of public interest and is driven to get the most out of his carrier and try his hand at different things.

 

[admartian]

heh yeah, one good game doesn't make an all black selection

He's good but he's clearly behind Cruden & Barrett and Barrett has the added bonus that he can play in the back 3 if needed.

I don't understand why people are still hating on about SBW. He's clearly a world class player and the scary thing is he seems to still be getting better all the time, this year he's been more conservative with his offloads and taking better options. Thriving between Cruden and Kahui. Best 12 in NZ right now arguably the best 12 in super rugby - his stats certainly suggest that.

Sure there are no guarantees that he will be around next year but that's the reality of professional sport and a guy who generates a lot of public interest and is driven to get the most out of his carrier and try his hand at different things.

That's the thing, if he's not gonna be committed, then I wouldn't pick him.

Everyone knows that International unions are about the world cups. I understand he's talented (which hasn't always necessarily translated to union) but he doesn't have the mental fortitude that a lot of the other All Blacks do (save Guildford...).

Would I pay him if it were my club? Sure (making sure that there are exit/bail-out/abandon clauses to his contract). But I'd be hesitant to pick him internationally at the expense of other promising, but more committed and smarter players.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

What about guys like Hore, Mealamu, guys who probably aren't going to make the next World Cup?

 

[Larksea]

That's the thing, if he's not gonna be committed, then I wouldn't pick him.

Everyone knows that International unions are about the world cups. I understand he's talented (which hasn't always necessarily translated to union) but he doesn't have the mental fortitude that a lot of the other All Blacks do (save Guildford...).

Would I pay him if it were my club? Sure (making sure that there are exit/bail-out/abandon clauses to his contract). But I'd be hesitant to pick him internationally at the expense of other promising, but more committed and smarter players.

I think that's rubbish, how on earth did you come to that? You his psychotherapist?

the fact he has not committed doesn't really matter he will only rule himself out when it's confirmed that he will leave

 

[Larksea]

What about guys like Hore, Mealamu, guys who probably aren't going to make the next World Cup?

yeah I think it's an issue, as I pointed out. Mealamu will hang on as long as he can and get to 100 tests and hore is the best hooker in NZ right now but they are both getting on and it would be unlikely that both or even one of them will still be playing world class footy come 2015. Same goes for Flynn and Jason Rutledge.

Time I think to get Hika Elliot back into the squad, Coles isn't quite there yet and he's the only other genuine option - he has potential though, just needs to lift his game and cut the crap.

 

[admartian]

I think that's rubbish, how on earth did you come to that? You his psychotherapist?

the fact he has not committed doesn't really matter he will only rule himself out when it's confirmed that he will leave

lol no.
I'm simply judging him based on what we've been given - whether fairly or not.

What about guys like Hore, Mealamu, guys who probably aren't going to make the next World Cup?

I'd still keep them. Them lpaying in the next WC (maybe not Hore) is not that much of a stretch.

Plus we don't have any real legitimate young guys putting their hand up.

This is probably our most vulnerable positions.

yeah I think it's an issue, as I pointed out. Mealamu will hang on as long as he can and get to 100 tests and hore is the best hooker in NZ right now but they are both getting on and it would be unlikely that both or even one of them will still be playing world class footy come 2015. Same goes for Flynn and Jason Rutledge.

Time I think to get Hika Elliot back into the squad, Coles isn't quite there yet and he's the only other genuine option - he has potential though, just needs to lift his game and cut the crap.

Yeah, still weird abiut Elliot's actual hooking ability and tight play.

He's good in open and general play though.

If no one comes in the slection frame with good promise within the next three years, I'd be more comfortable with an ageing Mealamu or Hore than any of the guys we currently have.

 

[SomeOke]

Ageing players who can't make it to the next WC still have a role to play in the squad specifically in mentoring young players, into worthy internationals.
Also although the WC is the final goal I don't think anyone is willing to sacrifice winning in the short term, I wouldn't play a team of youngsters and sacrifice winning for a year or two just to have a supposed better chance in four years time.

I'd say play either Nonu or SBW for now in your starting 15 but have a likely young replacement as cover, I don't know who that would be for NZ but what about a guy like Bateman?

 

[admartian]

Ageing players who can't make it to the next WC still have a role to play in the squad specifically in mentoring young players, into worthy internationals.
Also although the WC is the final goal I don't think anyone is willing to sacrifice winning in the short term, I wouldn't play a team of youngsters and sacrifice winning for a year or two just to have a supposed better chance in four years time.

I'd say play either Nonu or SBW for now in your starting 15 but have a likely young replacement as cover, I don't know who that would be for NZ but what about a guy like Bateman?

Bateman's fairly young at 24/25; but I don't see him having the same impact as a Nonu, SBW, or Fruean.

He's an in between an Aaron Mauger and Conrad Smith.

 

[Icemn]

Bateman's fairly young at 24/25; but I don't see him having the same impact as a Nonu, SBW, or Fruean.

He's an in between an Aaron Mauger and Conrad Smith.

say what??? i'm very very impressed with bateman!!! i actually want him to play on 12 to replace nonu!!!

he reminds he of conrad smith and aaron mauger - not much flair but do the basics right

bateman has got the potential!!!

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Questions to NZers:
- You all seem to be all right with the idea of picking Ali Williams. I thought we would never touch a black jersey after the WC, is he playing well? I understand the need of an experienced lock too, but he's never looked like a leader anyway, and Boric seems as good (or better) in the lineout as he is. Finally, Whitelock-Williams seems a bit light... I don't know, these are all honest questions, I'd like to know your opinions about it. (Also, there's this guy who got called up for the 3N and didn't make it for the WC, forgot his name)

- Young backrowers. The 2011 ones are young-ish, or at least of very "varied" ages (Vito 1987, Read 1985, Messam 1984, Kaino 1983, Thomson 1982, McCaw 1980), so I don't see the point of calling up Daniel Braid, for instance, but there seems to be many young backrowers who could be test players (Luke Braid 1988, Matt Todd 1988, soon Luke Whitelock 1991, to name a few), don't you think they should get some minutes? I'd think that the younger opensides should hang around McCaw a bit, and not only replace him when he retires.

- Something similar as above, but concerning midfielders. You have talked about that already, it's interesting to see your views.

 

[Aedaphon]

No one else interested in Perenara as an option for 20?

Perenara and Kerr-Barlow have shown some class at scrum-half and frankly Piri has not had a great game for a while... And hasn't played a full 80 at 9 all season.

In agreement that Beauden Barrett is worth a look but almost certainly not enough to push Cruden off the bench.

 

[Draggs]

From what I've heard, we are sending our best 22 to Australia before the Barbarians match, with an entirely different squad playing that match and going down afterwards.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I'm sensing a top NZ 22 of:

1 T Woodcock
2 A Hore
3 O Franks
4 S Whitelock
5 A Boric
6 A Thomson/L Messam/V Vito
7 R McCaw
8 K Read
9 A Ellis
10 D Carter
11 R Kahui
12 M Nonu
13 C Smith
14 C Jane
15 I Dagg

16 K Mealamu
17 B Franks
18 J Hoeata
19 A Thomson/L Messam/V Vito
20 A Smith
21 A Cruden
22 B Smith

We can swap our two Canterbury halves for two Manawatu halves during the game, which is nice... Smith and Kahui cover all the backline, ceding first five and halfback.