Springboks: post RWC general discussion

[Ostrayian]

There wouldnt be too many precious ***** like giteau over there in SA?
We call gits the committee over here as in the committee that went about screwing Mitchell and the team over.
I seem to recall a game where we were getting flogged in the first half and mitchell went mental at the teams effort and rightly so as it was pathetic, and somewhwere along the line Gits told him to f**k off and slammed the door shut on mitchell. Glad to see the back of knobs like Gits and JOC(but JOC is ok when he wears a wallabies jersey)

 

[callsign.springbok]

Juan Smith was the best blindside flanker in the world, possibly the best tailjumper too. Had a lot of injuries recently, some serious knocks to the head too. 30 now, 34 at next world cup.... not sure if he can be built into the next plan.

Bakkies reckons he's continuing for another couple of years now... not sure about that. A big shirt to fill; Mostert, Flip van der Merwe maybe. When Hargreaves played this year he looked like a total laaitie. Bekker of course has to go to 5 right now.

I used to be a Spies fan, but unless we're playing at home, on a fast track, against inferior opposition, he's really quite average.


1 Beast
2 Bismarck
3 Jannie duP
4 Mostert
5 Bekker
6 Brussow
7 Alberts
8 The Incredible Schalk aka Mr Schalduggery (kaptein)

9 Francois Hougaard
10 Lambie
11 Basson
12 F Steyn
13 J Fourie
14 Mvovo
15 Aplon ?

As Stormer2010 pointed out, props are a bit of a problem, and as in a few other areas, need some people to put their hands up in S15 next year.

Expect to see some exciting combinations coming from the Bulls. They look quite average at the moment in Currie Cup, but they are regenerating at the same time as Boks of course. Flip van der Merwe and Juandre Kruger are a good lock pairing for the future. Interesting to see how Cronje does at 10 too.

Biggest fear is that the next couple of years could be a 'veldfire' a la Straeuli for everything to burn away before the fresh growth can rise again. We should have started a regeneration at the end of 09, as the 3N and Lions victories was the cue for Smit to stand down and some others to be phased out before the WC. They tried to cling-on for this WC, and PDiv tried to 'get away with one' by putting Jake's bandaged and aging unit out and nicking another World Cup. Wishful thinking...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

^^^
Would Cronje actually get gametime at the Bulls though? I thought he might feature at 15 for you guys. There are better option as well IMO.

Yeah, I'm not sure about Smith or Bakkies either. A definate n/a for 2015 but there is an argument to be made to keep them about for the next year and a half at least to 'keep the fort' so to speak.

Bekker is a shoe-in for the line-out operator (if he can stay fit beyond the S15 that is). As for the other position, well apart from the old guard there is Mostert and v/d Merwe. I prefer Mostert but the idiot has moved abroad; will be interesting to see if he stays in contention. Keep your eyes on the Stormers' Elstadt and Etzebeth! And of course there are Wilhelm Steenakmp and Juandre Kruger who will battle for a shirt at the Bulls. Franco v/d Merwe too old? Quality hookers and loose forwards we have in excess. Only problem in the pack will be finding that prop or two that will carry us. Beast and Jannie are fine but I we can improve in this area looking at the quality other countries have.

In the backline is where most of the younger player will/should come through. At least I hope so. Hougaard for sure at 9 and Duvenhage is a good back-up for tight games. At 10 we need to drop Steyn and look to get competition going between our likely youngsters of which there are a few; Lambie, Goosen looks like he has the most promise IMO, Ebersohn, Jantjies, Catrakiklis. The amount of guys that we COULD go for might end up being a problem LOL. Hopefully the S15 gives us some clear signs as these guys are well spread across the franchises for the most part. Centers are JdJ, F Steyn (I don't think we should consider him as anything else- though we need to get him back to SA) and JF. We'll keep an eye out for the bulls youngsters and Pat Lambie will probably fill in at 12 for the Sharks. I don't think the other Ebersohn is our guy; much too weak on defense. Fullbacks might be a bit thin but Taute, Ludik and Lambie are all set to be class at 15 IMO; Sharks just need to sort their **** out. Wingers... a number of options but no-one has really stood head and shoulders above the rest IMO. Might consider bringing some of the fullback options in on one wing ala AB's. Although he is playing at center right now I like the game Mapoe brings; solid on defense and under the high ball and a good mix of strength, handling, tactical noose and not least pace.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

There wouldnt be too many precious ***** like giteau over there in SA?
We call gits the committee over here as in the committee that went about screwing Mitchell and the team over.
I seem to recall a game where we were getting flogged in the first half and mitchell went mental at the teams effort and rightly so as it was pathetic, and somewhwere along the line Gits told him to f**k off and slammed the door shut on mitchell. Glad to see the back of knobs like Gits and JOC(but JOC is ok when he wears a wallabies jersey)

Not too much thankfully and definately not in the same league as Gits. Not even in the same galaxy LOL.

 

[callsign.springbok]

^^^
Would Cronje actually get gametime at the Bulls though? I thought he might feature at 15 for you guys. There are better option as well IMO.

Yeah, I'm not sure about Smith or Bakkies either. A definate n/a for 2015 but there is an argument to be made to keep them about for the next year and a half at least to 'keep the fort' so to speak.

Bekker is a shoe-in for the line-out operator (if he can stay fit beyond the S15 that is). As for the other position, well apart from the old guard there is Mostert and v/d Merwe. I prefer Mostert but the idiot has moved abroad; will be interesting to see if he stays in contention. Keep your eyes on the Stormers' Elstadt and Etzebeth! And of course there are Wilhelm Steenakmp and Juandre Kruger who will battle for a shirt at the Bulls. Franco v/d Merwe too old? Quality hookers and loose forwards we have in excess. Only problem in the pack will be finding that prop or two that will carry us. Beast and Jannie are fine but I we can improve in this area looking at the quality other countries have.

In the backline is where most of the younger player will/should come through. At least I hope so. Hougaard for sure at 9 and Duvenhage is a good back-up for tight games. At 10 we need to drop Steyn and look to get competition going between our likely youngsters of which there are a few; Lambie, Goosen looks like he has the most promise IMO, Ebersohn, Jantjies, Catrakiklis. The amount of guys that we COULD go for might end up being a problem LOL. Hopefully the S15 gives us some clear signs as these guys are well spread across the franchises for the most part. Centers are JdJ, F Steyn (I don't think we should consider him as anything else- though we need to get him back to SA) and JF. We'll keep an eye out for the bulls youngsters and Pat Lambie will probably fill in at 12 for the Sharks. I don't think the other Ebersohn is our guy; much too weak on defense. Fullbacks might be a bit thin but Taute, Ludik and Lambie are all set to be class at 15 IMO; Sharks just need to sort their **** out. Wingers... a number of options but no-one has really stood head and shoulders above the rest IMO. Might consider bringing some of the fullback options in on one wing ala AB's. Although he is playing at center right now I like the game Mapoe brings; solid on defense and under the high ball and a good mix of strength, handling, tactical noose and not least pace.

Yeah, there are. Interesting because Bulls general make quite shrewd buys, and I think there is a plan for him. The 10 for the next couple of years has to be Lambie. People are raving about Goosen, but he's too young to be pencilled in to the Bok team. He has a long hard S15 ahead to stake a claim. Let's hope the Ebersohns, Cronjes, Goosens of CC and S15 stay injury-free and improve. Lambie's composure, bravery, skill, defence at international level has been really impressive. Yeah, he's good at 15, but why not make him 10!!?!?!

The problem goes to back to the Sharks. They've had Butch James, Brent Russell, Ruan Pienaar, Frans Steyn, and now Lambie. During those years they brought in Michalak, then Andy Goode, then Hernandez, then Michalak again. In his last season at the Sharks Steyn played everywhere between 10,12,13,15. Pienaar was hopping around between 9,10 and 15 if I remember correctly. Lambie was doing great at 10, Michalak came and Lambie got shunted.

Do we want Lambie to go the same way as Brent Russell? I ****ing hope not. Sort it out Plumtree, you've had some of the best talent for 10 and you've buggered it up by shuffling them around and bringing in foreign fly-halves.

 

[Seaton]

In between Marcel van de Merwe (whom for me has been the player of the Currie Cup this year), Coenie Oosthuizen, Steven Kitshoff and Pat Cilliers I think SA don't have much to fear in the propping department in the future.

Bismarck should carry over well to the next world cup, and if we finally see Chilliboy starting week after week year in year out, there is no reason he shouldn't be in the frame for 2015. For youngsters, I look at Kyle Cooper and Michael van Vuuren.

For locks... take your pick. Flip van de Merwe, Rynardt Elstadt, Andries Bekker, Martin Muller, Eben Etzebeth and The Bulls usual plethora of locks are all capable.

Loosies, too much to talk about. :lol:

Scrum-halves- Hougaard, Hougaard, Hougaard. Should be SA's prime number nine, however Vermaak at the Bulls complicates things. Duvenange is young and could develop, but it just looks like he is lacking the attributes that make many scrum-halves threatening with the ball in hand and boot. Rudi Page is a good shout too, as well as the Bulls young van Rooyen.

Fly-half- Goosen, Goosen, Goosen! If it were not a world cup year, people would jizzing left right and centre if they watched this kid. Many more options but the sooner he is away from the Currie Cup, the fairer it would be.

Wings- Too many.

Centers- Don't get me started.

Fullback- Depends on what happens with Lambie me thinks, otherwise arise Jaco Taute, whom has finally found that spark and intelligence that went missing in the S15. Still could use a bit more development on his technical skillz though.

My Christmas wish list for Scotland.

Sean Maitland
William- Small Smith
Jean Cook

The first one qualifies for Scotland as well...

 

[callsign.springbok]

Fullback problem solved!!!!

Just remembered Earl Rose is rediscovering his ****-(hot) form at the Griquas!

 

[Jer1cho]

If we were to pick a team of youngsters to build up, then this is what I would go with:

1. Beast
2. Bismark
3. ANYONE BUT PENALTY MACHINE JANNIE
4. Rynhardt Elstad
5. Andries Bekker
6. Heinrich Brussouw
7. Not too sure...
8. Willem Alberts

9. Francois Hougaard

10. Patrick Lambie
11. Lwazi Mvovo
12. Juan de Jongh
13. Johan Sadie
14. Not too sure
15. Jaco Taute


Couple of key positions we will need to address, but I'm sure some other youngsters will come through to impress.

There are certain players I am very happy to see the back of. Jannie Penalty machine du Plessis should never come near a Bok jersey again. Fourie butterfingers du Preez was a great player, but at the start of the tournament, I said he is going to aid in knocking ourselves out, and he did, but butchering 2 tries where all he needed to do was fall over the line. He knocked both on, and Australia's only try came from a defensive lineout as a result of an aimless kick of his that was returned. Good riddance to both of these players.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

In between Marcel van de Merwe (whom for me has been the player of the Currie Cup this year), Coenie Oosthuizen, Steven Kitshoff and Pat Cilliers I think SA don't have much to fear in the propping department in the future.

Bismarck should carry over well to the next world cup, and if we finally see Chilliboy starting week after week year in year out, there is no reason he shouldn't be in the frame for 2015. For youngsters, I look at Kyle Cooper and Michael van Vuuren.

For locks... take your pick. Flip van de Merwe, Rynardt Elstadt, Andries Bekker, Martin Muller, Eben Etzebeth and The Bulls usual plethora of locks are all capable.

Loosies, too much to talk about. :lol:

Scrum-halves- Hougaard, Hougaard, Hougaard. Should be SA's prime number nine, however Vermaak at the Bulls complicates things. Duvenange is young and could develop, but it just looks like he is lacking the attributes that make many scrum-halves threatening with the ball in hand and boot. Rudi Page is a good shout too, as well as the Bulls young van Rooyen.

Fly-half- Goosen, Goosen, Goosen! If it were not a world cup year, people would jizzing left right and centre if they watched this kid. Many more options but the sooner he is away from the Currie Cup, the fairer it would be.

Wings- Too many.

Centers- Don't get me started.

Fullback- Depends on what happens with Lambie me thinks, otherwise arise Jaco Taute, whom has finally found that spark and intelligence that went missing in the S15. Still could use a bit more development on his technical skillz though.

My Christmas wish list for Scotland.

Sean Maitland
William- Small Smith
Jean Cook

The first one qualifies for Scotland as well...

I have to admit I havn't been following M v/d Merwe but its good to hear there is hope. Coenie is such a HUGE guy but reminds me of Irelands Tony Buckly in that he seems to find it hard to scrummage against guys who give away 10 to 20 kg's on him.

Agreed that Goosen has been in sublime form and has taken that step up from school rugby with aplomb. I'm sure he'll do well in S15 and hopefully test rugby but that is a while off yet. Taute has the attitude and aptitude that I want for SA at 15 but yeah, there is work to be done yet and that's why i'd like to see Lambie at 15 rather. But then he needs to stay there and develop. We have more options for 10 than 15.

Small Smith? Is that the Grey college captain and center? Heard he is a classy player.

If we were to pick a team of youngsters to build up, then this is what I would go with:

1. Beast
2. Bismark
3. ANYONE BUT PENALTY MACHINE JANNIE
4. Rynhardt Elstad
5. Andries Bekker
6. Heinrich Brussouw
7. Not too sure...
8. Willem Alberts

9. Francois Hougaard

10. Patrick Lambie
11. Lwazi Mvovo
12. Juan de Jongh
13. Johan Sadie
14. Not too sure
15. Jaco Taute


Couple of key positions we will need to address, but I'm sure some other youngsters will come through to impress.

There are certain players I am very happy to see the back of. Jannie Penalty machine du Plessis should never come near a Bok jersey again. Fourie butterfingers du Preez was a great player, but at the start of the tournament, I said he is going to aid in knocking ourselves out, and he did, but butchering 2 tries where all he needed to do was fall over the line. He knocked both on, and Australia's only try came from a defensive lineout as a result of an aimless kick of his that was returned. Good riddance to both of these players.

Yeah, It'll be hard to single out a couple of loose forwards. Allready we have guys like Jean Deysel and Duane Vermeulen who could've very easily been test stars. And looking at the youngsters coming through it is a position that will just keep generating more head aches. If Spies is still a Bok in 2012 I'll be seriously considering stop watching rugby. No I won't, who am I kidding but FFS!

No Frans Steyn at 12? 4 years is a long way off and a lot can happen in the meanwhile but surely he'd do well in that jersey for us for a while yet.

10 and 15 jerseys have a lot of promising youngsters staking claims. Will be an interesting S15 simply for looking at how these guys handle the extra pressure next year and who are looking to be the likely stake holders.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Does anyone have an idea when PdV's stepping down will be effective and when we can expect an announcement on the new coach?

Also, any preferences?

 

[TRF_heineken]

I don't think Mitchell will get the job because:
1. He's not South African and I can guarantee you our older brethren will do more than raise a few eyebrows if a kiwi coaches the boks.
2. His Contractual obligations with the Lions.

as for our Squad for the Future, man we have some amazing talent coming through!!

1. Beast, Dean Greyling, WP Nel
2. Bismarck, Chilliboy, Strauss
3. Jannie Du Plessis, Werner Kruger, Coenie Oosthuizen
4. Rynhardt Elstadt, Juandre Kruger, that Etzebeth guy
5. Andries Bekker, Gerhard Mostert, Willem Alberts (our new Danie Rossouw in regards with utility)
6. Heinrich Brussouw, Francois Louw, Keegan Daniel
7. Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Kolisi
8. Pierre Spies, Duane Vermeulen, CJ Stander, Ryan Kankowski
9. Francois Hougaard, Conrad Hoffman, Dewaldt Duvenhage
10. Goosen, Lambie, Steyn
11. Basson, Mvovo, Sithole
12. Johan Sadie, Francois Steyn, Francois Venter
13. Jaque Fourie, Robert Ebersohn, Juan De Jongh
14. Aplon, Gerhard van den Heever, JJ Engelbrecht
15. Jaco Taute, Zane Kirchner, Sias Ebersohn

**Please note: this is my idea of what our team should consist of in the near future like end of year tour and maybe next year... after that i can't say, as there is so much that can happen...

 

[TRF_heineken]

Does anyone have an idea when PdV's stepping down will be effective and when we can expect an announcement on the new coach?

Also, any preferences?

I think his announcement yesteday after the match was suggestion that it will be with immediate effect, the same as Jake White did. now they can start looking for a coach before the end of year tour.

My Suggestion is to go with a brains trust: Heyneke Meyer for the Forwards, Allistair Coetzee for the Backline, Rassie Erasmus for the technical side and Percy Montgomery for the kicking. If you have to select someone as head coach then pick the guy who is the more social type that would handle the press well, in that case it would be Rassie.

 

[Black Heart]

I don't think Mitchell will get the job because:
1. He's not South African and I can guarantee you our older brethren will do more than raise a few eyebrows if a kiwi coaches the boks.

3 of the 4 teams left in the world cup are coached by Kiwis...







.... just a thought.

 

[TRF_heineken]

3 of the 4 teams left in the world cup are coached by Kiwis...







.... just a thought.

Haha yeah yeah, but the next 3 world cups won't be in New Zealand

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Also, the top two teams ATM in the CC have Kiwi coaches.

> in before "but the other teams are missing their Springboks".

I'm all for John Mitchell as head coach.

Allister Coetzee knows jack-all about back play. After Mitchell, i'd prefer Hawies Fourie to be backs coach. What that guy could do with some more talented players..

Rassie has done well but i think the powers taht be would do well to consider Brendan Venter as well. Also, keep the consultants in Nienaber, Claasen etc around.

While I have HUGE respect for Heynecke Meyer the man hasn't been involved for a bit and we can only work on past involvement and the game has changed soooo much.. I wouldn't cry if he got appointed but I'd be reserving my elation as well. Though him with a good assistant might be just the tonic.

 

[Seaton]

I think his announcement yesteday after the match was suggestion that it will be with immediate effect, the same as Jake White did. now they can start looking for a coach before the end of year tour.
.

I presume you are unaware that there are no End of Year Tours in world cup years?

 

[TRF_heineken]

I presume you are unaware that there are no End of Year Tours in world cup years?

sorry mate, you're right, honest mistake... I was thinking that there was as the Barbarians vs Australia's game is going to be the blood brother's (Victor and Bakkies) last game together vs an international team (Australia)... Ironic much??

 

[Sam Owen]

How do you go from this.....

3 of the 4 teams left in the world cup are coached by Kiwis...
.... just a thought.

To this.....

Haha yeah yeah, but the next 3 world cups won't be in New Zealand

 

[donmcdazzle]

Also, the top two teams ATM in the CC have Kiwi coaches.

> in before "but the other teams are missing their Springboks".

I'm all for John Mitchell as head coach.

Allister Coetzee knows jack-all about back play. After Mitchell, i'd prefer Hawies Fourie to be backs coach. What that guy could do with some more talented players..

Rassie has done well but i think the powers taht be would do well to consider Brendan Venter as well. Also, keep the consultants in Nienaber, Claasen etc around.

While I have HUGE respect for Heynecke Meyer the man hasn't been involved for a bit and we can only work on past involvement and the game has changed soooo much.. I wouldn't cry if he got appointed but I'd be reserving my elation as well. Though him with a good assistant might be just the tonic.

From someone who has had John Mitchell coach their national team, trsut me when I say you don't want him.

 

[Sam Owen]

From someone who has had John Mitchell coach their national team, trsut me when I say you don't want him.

I dont know, it might suit the Boks for the better. I mean the Boks already play like a Mitchell coached side with the box kick and mauls. I dont like John Mitchell as a coach but who knows it could be an unbeatable combination, pure speculation from me.