South Africa vs France

[Boggle]

Well, I must say I thought the French would pose a much bigger threat than they did, to be fair we played absolutely magnificantly, would probably have beaten anyone in the world today.

Just thought it would have been more of a contest, I think Aplon has pretty much played his way into the first choice right wing jersey, simply bumping off that french center and going on to
score his try was amazing, methinks many people underestimate him because of his size.

Francoius Louw as well, what an amazing player, looks like a future legend in the making.

Seriously though, what the hell happened to the French ?
These are the 6 nations champs ?

:/

 

[User1245]

Our great start really laid the foundation for an epic result. Well done Bokke!

Really chuffed that Aplon and Louw once again stood up to be counted. I reckon both have one hand on a starting line-up. Aplon's jinks and swerves remind me of Breyton Paulse's days. Lineout superb once again.
We did well enough at the breakdown, but lacked numbers a few times. We're also not supporting the players who are making the half-breaks. They'd break through with no support runners insight. Need to sort that out for the Tri-Nations. Keeping that momentum against the Aussie's and Kiwi's is key. Adding to that we are not getting enough quick ball from the ruck. Januarie's service is slow. He was great today otherwise, but his slow delivery put our centres up huge pressure today.

Which brings me to Wynand Olivier... Just not international level I'm afraid. It's been like that since 2007 and the case is the same today.
Zane Kirchner... Spectacularly below-average. Useless. I mean where do I begin. Got charged down, nearly cost a try again, just kicks and badly so. Just bad. Can't wait for Jantjes to get back but in the mean time get Viljoen in now! Terblanche even FFS.
Gosh I'm not even gonna comment on Chiliboy... So sick of him. Again I call him to hand in his Bok jersey to save himself and keep his integrity.

Was good to have all the big names back. We just seemed so composed. Morne Steyn was cool as ice, good news for the Boks.

 

[bernardo]

Do not be too harsh on the frenchies , the score is little bit big compared to what happened on the field.

Catastrophic first 15 minutes from France , lack of focus and defense , that cost us a lot at the end (a score of 25-17 would have been more fair). SA has won the match on the support , too much times frenchies were without support and that was their main weakness. Again frenchies were not burned but not focus on what they had to do. on a lot of rucks, i thought there was quite limit attitude from the boks (tacklers not letting go tackled player and not really on their legs) but again if you have 3 boks for 1 frenchy, the referee will let it go thinking that SA deserved to win the ball...If we were more focused on supporting the ball carrier , we would have not lost so much ball and referee would not have let play SA so easily.

Good coaching from SA for the scrum, i really thought that French scrum would have taking other the SA scrum in second half but the SA scrum came back into the scrum fight and played equally with the french on the second half.

Our line out was awfull, it is a shame to lose so much balls on that.

Great and serious display from SA , intelligent game all along , very good defense and great field occupation with kick.

I'm not very objective for that but i really think that we should always beat SA cause they do not have a surprising game. It is simple and clinical and at least we should be able everytime to fight equally on basics with them. in the meantime, it was a good fight to watch, i had my pleasure watching it and frenchies , even with SA largely ahead, stayed quite able to score and to come back ...Overall i do not have the sensation that we have been destroyed on this match and the score is too large regarding the level of the 2 teams...like it has been said , we played like headless chicken We forgot our brain in France !

 

[Boggle]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you.

In no way did France to anything to make me think the scoreline should have been at all closer than it was.

The only parts of that match that we were really taxed in was the scrum (which didn't go as bad as I thought it would) and the breakdown (which at times we got rucked to oblivion, simply handing over possession without a fight).
If we work on what Steve-o mentioned, backing up players who go for the half gap, making sure we don't get counter rucked like we did and making a few key player changes (like dropping kirchner and Chilliboy altogether) I think
we should do very well in the Tri Nations this year.

I would have liked to see Jean De villiers get some time at 12 today though, alongside Fourie, I must say I am dissapointed in Olivier, thought he would have had a better game, perhaps he and Fourie just don't gel that well yet.

 

[Seaton]

Our great start really laid the foundation for an epic result. Well done Bokke!

Which brings me to Wynand Olivier... Just not international level I'm afraid. It's been like that since 2007 and the case is the same today.
Zane Kirchner... Spectacularly below-average. Useless. I mean where do I begin. Got charged down, nearly cost a try again, just kicks and badly so. Just bad. Can't wait for Jantjes to get back but in the mean time get Viljoen in now! Terblanche even FFS.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree that Jantjies needs to recover as soon as possible.
I still don't believe Viljoen is ready for the international game, he barely gets the nod over Daniller (urgh) at the Cheetahs.

My wild card would be to play Pienaar at fullback, didn't do to bad when he played in that position in Australia last year.
Thoughts?

 

[User1245]

I like how solid he is mostly, but you right he needs more first class game time at the Cheetahs. IMO Daniller has more holes in his game than Swiss cheese and should play bench for Viljoen. Viljoen did play in the mid-week games on our NH tour so he's on the radar at least. I'm sooooo tempted to throw Lambie's name in the mix but he is a bit green still, although it doesn't show it! I have a suspicion Lambie will eventually be converted to a flyhalf though, especially if Ludik is staying at the Sharks long term. Aplon also impressed during his stint at 15 for the Stormers.
Either way Kirchner needs to go, any FB other than him.

EDIT: I agree with Pienaar at 15 BTW, for now at least. He's got tons of experience and BMT. However if rumours are true he'll be in Ireland next season and we won't have a definite settled 15 going into the WC year.

 

[bernardo]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you.

In no way did France to anything to make me think the scoreline should have been at all closer than it was.

Yeah sure you disagree, no doubt about that

that is mistakes they have done that make me think the score should have been closer...

The 2 tries from the start are the result of 3 missed tackles (Pointrenaud, Trinh-duc and Mermoz) and a knock on by Marty well negociated by Habanna, all of that in 10 minutes. With focus and serious , it should not have hapenned, that is not like the French team i saw during this winter Grand chelem. With these 14 points given easily , the score is not the same, that is what i meant. Overall , in the game, SA did not put France on its knees and ,all along the game, i felt France could come back with a bit more of focus and luck.

But fair enough the score is 42 - 17 and like we say in my country , with "If..." we could put Paris in a bottle !!!

I just do not feel that this score representing in any way the difference there is between these 2 teams.

 

[SelimNiai]

Our great start really laid the foundation for an epic result. Well done Bokke!

Zane Kirchner... Spectacularly below-average. Useless. I mean where do I begin. Got charged down, nearly cost a try again, just kicks and badly so. Just bad. Can't wait for Jantjes to get back but in the mean time get Viljoen in now! Terblanche even FFS.
.

Each time I have seen Kirchner play, which admittedly isnt that often (this maybe is 3rd or 4th time I have seen him in Springbok colours), I have been less than impressed maybe that is because we judge him on the other players who play is his position for SA but to me he is an average player, decent at club level but not good enough for International lever, certainly not against the NZ, Australia, England, Wales, France and Irelands of this world

 

[Seaton]

EDIT: I agree with Pienaar at 15 BTW, for now at least. He's got tons of experience and BMT. However if rumours are true he'll be in Ireland next season and we won't have a definite settled 15 going into the WC year.

I'm afraid those are no longer rumours, Ulster have already confirmed on their website that he has signed a contract that starts in Octoberish.
I have only seen this mentioned once, and that was a small little article in the Mercuary newspaper, surprised, maybe PDV doesn't even know!

 

[shtove]

Really depressed with SA's first half - if they play like that against the ABs in next year's RWC final it will be a classic. Haha! Keep it going, boys - and don't go back to Habana chasing high balls.

Is de Jongh right at 12, or should he displace Fourie at 13? Looks like a class player.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I like how solid he is mostly, but you right he needs more first class game time at the Cheetahs. IMO Daniller has more holes in his game than Swiss cheese and should play bench for Viljoen. Viljoen did play in the mid-week games on our NH tour so he's on the radar at least. I'm sooooo tempted to throw Lambie's name in the mix but he is a bit green still, although it doesn't show it! I have a suspicion Lambie will eventually be converted to a flyhalf though, especially if Ludik is staying at the Sharks long term. Aplon also impressed during his stint at 15 for the Stormers.
Either way Kirchner needs to go, any FB other than him.

EDIT: I agree with Pienaar at 15 BTW, for now at least. He's got tons of experience and BMT. However if rumours are true he'll be in Ireland next season and we won't have a definite settled 15 going into the WC year.

If Pienaar does become sort of unavailable who is the next best option at 15 for South Africa?

 

[User1245]

If Pienaar does become sort of unavailable who is the next best option at 15 for South Africa?

Not including the injured players, I honestly believe Aplon is a better bet at 15 than Kirchner. He played a good couple of games there for the Stormers and did well. If the coaches don't want to put him there we must bring Steyn in as a stop gap until our other FB's come back from injury. And if they don't want to do that then Terblanche must be the stop gap. Although he's old he's been the best 15 in SA for easily 3 seasons now. But with Ludik and Jantjes coming back from injury our depth will be insignificantly increased. Ludik hasn't been capped yet but will be a Bok very soon. He probably would of played 15 in the 3rd Lions Test if he never got injured.

 

[Jer1cho]

so only now does everyone agree with me on kirchner. I have said it from day one. He is ****, made to look good because he plays for the best provincial side in the sh. Play aplon at 15, and put van den heever at 14. Kirchner needs to bugger off.

 

[ranger]

so only now does everyone agree with me on kirchner. I have said it from day one. He is ****, made to look good because he plays for the best provincial side in the sh. Play aplon at 15, and put van den heever at 14. Kirchner needs to bugger off.

I agreed.. If you're going to kick the ball at every opportunity you better have great hands, the boot of Frans Steyn and rocksolid defense.
Kirchner doesnt.

 

[Jer1cho]

Is Gerhard van den Heever injured? Why is he not in the squad? Also, wtf happened to France? Everyone was hailing them as the 'next WC winners' after 'thrashing' us 20-13 last year. It's a different kettle of fish when you come to play on our home soil at the end of your season isn't it? This is precisely the reason touring needs to come back. 42-17 is a roasting in my book. Teams are just too tired at the end of their seasons to play tests far away from home against fresh opposition. Won't even mention Ireland... Pretty bleak weekend for NH rugby.

 

[ShaheenJ]

I don't usually post in the forums other than the Rugby 08 mods section :O. Anyways, Kirchner has to go, he's not an International Fullback, called him to wear Green and Gold in his early days at Griekwas, as an attacking fullback, seems solid enough at the Bulls playing Super Rugby, but cannot make the step up to International level yet. Francois Louw had a stormer (excuse the pun) of a match. We are spoiled for talent in this country especially in the loose forward department. Impressed with Aplon, and never scared to put his body on the line in defense, and does remind me of Breyton Paulse (who handed out the Bok jerseys ahead of the match).

On Chilliboy... actually he had a good game. Strange how the scrum stabilised when he came on? Won a few good turnovers too. Now now, before everyone gets on my back, I'm well aware that he's like 3rd choice at the Bulls and doesn't play Super Rugby, but his performance on the day was quite good, as was Januarie's to be honest. He's a hustling-in-your-face type scrummie, and never disappointed in the Bok jersey. What's the problem with Wynand? For years now he has failed to impress when starting. Perhaps he needs to get an extended run in the first XV?

Over all I'm satisfied with the result. The scoreline does not necessarily reflect the gap between the two sides. We all know the French are way better than that rubbish performance. I think they went about the match the wrong way, tried to run us off our own field, and played too loose with little structure. Only area of dominance was, as expected the scrums. Looking forward to the Tri Nations, with the Aussie back line taking shape, and New Zealand blooding new and exciting talent.

 

[Charles]

Haven't seen the game, and doesn't really feel like watching it now. Anyway, although I didn't expect that scoreline, not surprised with the loss. From what I gathered reading various accounts of the game, all that I predicted happened. We missed Servat and Harinordoquy in the forwards (there is NO substitute for Hari, really), and Jauzion and Basta in the backs. We were never able to take the midfiels and bash SA out of the way like we did in November. Hence the running game plan: we didn't have any other choice.
And finally the breakdwon rule cost us dear, as I knew it would. It wasn't even a close game so I'm not gonna talk of the referee, but let me just say that a lot of people in France, and also our captain on the day don't understand this game that you play in the SH. The reffing of the rucks is so different it is now a different sport. Something has to be done, or else we will all be playing faux-rugby league thanks to our Aussie friends.

Anyway, fair play to SA for the victory I suppose, and to the SA posters for not being dicks about it like almost any SA fan to be found on the friggin interweb.

 

[Seaton]

Could thing Jannie du Plessis played, he saved a man's life after the game!

Good stuff Jannie, now only if you were as good a player as you are a player

 

[Seaton]

I don't usually post in the forums other than the Rugby 08 mods section :O.

Please post a link to this section

PLEASE, I beg you!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Great win. Yes, the French missed probably 3 key players but they should have given a better account of themselves. That said, at least 2 of our tries came from unforced French mistakes (Habana and Aplon picking up off bad passes) and if we didn't blitz France in the first 20 it could have been a much closer game.

- scrums improved from lat week and improved more during the game. Hope the guys build on it, whether it is selection issues or technique I wouldn't pretend to know.
- line-out dominated as per usual but I feel Matfield deserves his rest now. Danie has had a good S14 and has always been a stalwart Bok but damn, he is the form of his life. Now allow Bekker to show his form as well.
- Francois Louw has outshone Burger this game and the competition for the flanks between these two, Brussouw and Juan Smith can only be good for SA. Deysel and Pottie quality fringe players who, along with Kanko and Vermeulen should battle to be Spies' understudy.
- Januarie had a decent game and showed why he is Bok material but i still say his slow distribution (which puts him behind Duvenhage at WP) puts too much pressure on those outside him. Just look at the difference quick ball made for the Stormers. Behind du Preez we do have guys with good service. Personally would have had Pienaar at 9 and one of Duvenhage or Pretorius on the bench to blood them with Grant starting at pivot. Chiliboy also had a solid game but I cannot think how a player who has had maybe 10 minutes of gametime in the last 2 yearscan be thrown in at the deep end. A testament to him for performing well but it sends the wrong message and just doesnt make sense; I wouldn't even put Bakkies Botha in the mix coming off an injury ahead of other guys that have put their hands up. Gary Botha and Tiaan Liebenberg have reason to feel hard done by.
- Some of these guys have played all the S14 games, S14 playoffs and now 2 tests and need to get some rest ala Tim Noakes advice. I mean, why pay a professional for a report and then not adhere to his findings? No disrespect to italy but our key en should be rested.
- Kirschner really has not impressed. Olivier solid enough but MIA. Kirschner has got to make way to either Frans Steyn or Gio Aplon. I would even through Patrick Lambie in at the deep end when he returns from the JRWC in the place of Kirschner as I cannot think of anything he adds to the mix.
- Like Steve-O said, we get lots of half breaks with no quality support where other nations would go on to score from them.

My team for Italy then:

Guthro Steenkamp
Chiliboy Ralepele (if only to get some gametime seeing as PdV is sticking to him)
Jannie du Plessis (steadied the scrum but now has to show that he can add more to the team)
Bakkies Botha (Danie and Matfield 1st choice but deserve rest)
Andires Bekker (Danie and Matfield 1st choice but deserve rest)
Francois Louw (Burger looks tired and can do with rest while FLouw is riding the high of being a Bok)
Jean Deysel (I think he and FLouw can really complement each other)
Pierre Spies (had his rest while injured in the S14; immense with ball in hand and a bit of space but needs to add to his game still)

Sarel Pretorius (my 2nd choice 9 with FdP injured, Pienaar leaving and Januarie's slow service)
Peter Grant (2nd best 10, especially with Pienaar hitting the road while Steyn rests)
Francois Hougaard (Habana needs rest)
Jean de Villiers (hasn't had much gametime up North and needs to prove himself again)
Juan de Jongh (only to rest Fourie)
Gerhard van den Heever (to free Aplon taking over at 15 where he looked dangerous for WP)
Gio Aplon

CJ van der Linde
Tiaan Liebenberg (Smitty and Bismarck injured)
Danie Rossouw (though he should only see gametime in the event of injury)
Dewald Potgieter (though only to keep the spot warm for Burger & Smith)
Dewald Duvenhage
Jacque Fourie (only to play if injury occurs)
Frans Steyn (suck up your pride PdV and give him 1 more game at least while Lambie plays JRWC)